Claymore Chapter 120

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

@Ryus

First of all i edited my previous post......

Than,for the new things:

This isn't a point counterpoint type of argument But I'll now be forced to respond in kind to make my reply make sense.

The points was just me explaining why I felt these chapters where rushed.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Invalid since it was said from the very beginning that this would have happened considering the very nature of those 3 monsters.It's your fault if you don't consider this fact.

Anyways:
I did consider that all 3 could awaken in rapid succession however what reason would there be to do this beyond rushing forward with the plot? You didn't respond to this. This is just a strawman argument.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

That's something you can't know for sure so imo it's pure nonsense to complain about this now,we still don't know the "bigger picture",only Yagi knows.
This is not a complete manga,you know?...and btw Yagi has to balance the flash backs with the real evolution of the battle.....and tbh he did enogh flash backs in the last chapters....
Also i'd like to point out that this is Yagi's style in general, he doesn't give a lot of infos about his characters,you have to understand them looking at their actions.
The list of characters to prove this is so long that i'll spare you,but anyway complaining about this now it's another nonsense imo since Yagi used this style from the very beginning,so if you failed to notice it's your fault again imo,not the story rushed.....
....at best i can accept that you don't like his "style",but that's a completely different matter.

My point was we got the backstories already and the plot moved forward, so while Yagi could explain what happened later and yes the story isn't complete once again your just acting like I can't judge an arc since the entire story isn't over. This avoids the point i was trying to make while pretending you cover it... another strawman. I'll give you the balance point but all that means to me is he balanced it to a point he could still rush forward with the plot and leave out angles that would have benefited the plot greatly in relation to these 3 warriors and whom they interact with. We know more about Isley's past than what happened to Roxanne after killing Cassandra, yet we know the org considered her a huge trouble maker kinda a let down not to see it what she did after her love and hate cycle couldn't look up to any more stronger warriors.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

it seems you really can see the future,i'm quite jelous.
No,jokes aside,even if that would be the case (and it's just a speculation for now,nothing confirmed),what's so wrong with it?
Maybe Yagi wanted Claire and Prissy to join everyone else in an huge battle from the very beginning,how can you know?
The truth is that you have no basis at all to conclude that this is proof that the work was rushed.

Quite... but it's misrepresenting what I meant. Priscilla is being summoned by this as explained by Dae yet the ghosts haven't even arrived. It seems there only point is either to back everyone up until Priscilla and/or Clare arrive or to organize the retreat. Once again rushed since there was huge set up already about what side Anastasia would take and now that plot point is meaningless and reduced to a red herring.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

already commented on this

As did I

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

done this too...i really don't see all the connections that you do to conclude that Yagi is rushing things,lol.

That is apparently clear

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Like i already said, Claymore IS NOT A COMPLETED MANGA.
For all we know there is a concrete chance that almost all that you are complaining here now will be covered by the story in the next chapters.
It's not that the 3 monter sare around for 200 chapters,lol.Yagi has to balance informations and progress in the story,especially since it's a monthly release if he focus to give an answer to all that now,the battle will move on way too slow and in 2 years Deneve's group won't be arrived yet,lol.

Oh so now the ghosts arrival is mandatory when you just didn't said you didn't care about when it happens .

Anyways moving on from the double standard, while some of these could be revealed how much do you really expect to be revealed before Priscilla shows up and once she does is any of them going to be left alive for it to matter anyhow? That was the point I was making, by stating Priscilla cat nip has been thrown all over the ground Yagi just wrote himself into moving the plot forward likely before these points would be addressed. Hence from my pov rushed... these where all legit points one or two not showing up is one thing but this many is clearly rushing things.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Like i already said imo there is nothing strange here. Cheap deaths (well,Histy is not dead yet....well she is dead,but....lol) are infact more common than glorious deaths,actually.
....and we are not sure yet what actually triggered Histy awakening,for all we know it's 100% possible (even probable i'd say) that Histy regained her memory when she suffered the fatal wound.
In the end you are complaining once again for something that the readers are not supposed to know yet.

I never said anything about death... don't throw words in my mouth. I said there where other more natural ways she could have awakened besides he zombie rise after asspull defeat (after a forced victory over her enemy)

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

No,it's not "a cut logical plot development that should have happened",it's nothing more than something that you imagined would have happened and complain because that remained in your imagination.Nothing less,nothing more.

Tabitha can sense the differences between awakened and none awakened... and she's by far the best set of eyes. Imagined, no... needed, maybe not however when combined with the list of overlooked plot elements it's clear something are being ignored for the sake of advancing the plot quickly

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

What made me very happy is that the situation is going bad (REALLY bad) very fast as soon as Cassy awakened.
That's something i hoped would happened since imo it wouldn't be realistic at all if the pace of the battle would have stayed as slow as in the past chapters.
I hoped in an awakened form for Cassy that somehow would have some connection with her unique technique so even in this sense i think Yagi did a good job.

There where a thousand ways things could have "gone bad" what made this one any better than last chapter when Cassandra awakened. Nothing really bad has happened yet and the introduction of them being Priscilla's cat nip could leave Yagi an exit to the "gone bad" here.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Of course,infact i'mnot complaining too much that the lot was slow in previous chapters,i said that i would be a bit disappointed if the story's pace wouldn't have a change after Cassy's awakening.
Sometimes is good to go slow,but when you want the readers to REALLY feel the battle going on,you can't use a slow pace,you have to go all out imo.
A concrete example: if Yagi would have done another flash back now,even if we would have gained new infos on the characters the battle would have lost a lot of tension and that would have been quite bad,at least that's my opinion.

Oh, so now you can see the future?

I'm not saying a flash back at this very moment, I'm saying these three could have been the main plot element for the next half dozen chapters and we could have slowly learned a thing or two more about them before them being Priscilla's cat nip was revealed when the last of them finally awakened. Plus they all didn't need to die... maybe one of them could have left to go fest on a near by town but returned when Priscilla came after sensing her that way all 3 of them could have been there ready to attack her in the craziest case scenario.

At the rate the plot is rushing we likely won't even get to figure out what is happening inside the blob till long after they all get out... that I feel would be a crying shame. So many opportunities with that potential plot.

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

What you see as a defect, i see it as something new and original,something that Yagi hasn't done before in the plot structure.

Prove it. What is different with the arc set up that's ruled the day until now... other than focus going from the 3 to Priscilla when it could have stayed with the 3... for all you know she could show up in the next ch or two and then she rules the last half of this 2 part arc until Clare shows up or Teresa comes back. Then the two 7-8 chapter arcs that comprise a full arc would still be meet. It would be no different than pieta when the first half was 3 ABs and the next half Rigardo... Yagi has done this before

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

Like i said,different eyes,different opinions.

Edit: sorry for the many grammar mistakes in this post,i really don't have the strenght to correct them all,lol.I give up.

Sorry for my reply being a point counterpoint. I never intended this I just wanted this to be a debate about what I felt and why you felt it wasn't rushed... not why I'm wrong and then you are. Sadly I forgot it's just your posting style to attack the opposite pov more often than resum up what you felt. However if you want a point counter point slug fest I'm your huckleberry ()

[MalakTawus]

@Gooral

Yagi can still use Aizen card, i.e. that Miria had it all planned just like Clare when she fought Ophelia on a cliff but that would only lessen the "damage". However, Miria purposefully stopping at the exact spot where the sword was while Hysteria wasn't paying attention where she landed, in the just exact position so that sword wouldn't stick out and so she could reach the grip easily without changing her body position is close to zero (read: impossible).

Not true at all.
On the contrary is very probablr for a simple reason: in case u didn't notice Miria lost her arms,not her legs...so it makes perfect sense for her to pretend to fall in the right position near the sword.......

@konart

Clare said claymores are trained for many cases, even to be prostitutes if needed

I have so many dirty jokes to comment on this...but i'd be banned for sure (especially since i see that mods are around,lol).

@ryus

This isn't a point counterpoint type of argument But I'll now be forced to respond in kind to make my reply make sense.

LOL.
No,no, when i said that i edited my previous post i wasn't implying anything particular,i was just saying it since often edited posts are ignored since people don't see the edit done in a second moment.
It was just for information,nothing more,lol.

I did consider that all 3 could awaken in rapid succession however what reason would there be to do this beyond rushing forward with the plot? You didn't respond to this.

I thought that i already answered to this but probably i wasn't very clear.
The reason to do something like that is IMO to impress the battle a completely new rhythm,fast paced and probably it will become even frenetic in the next chapters.
This rhythm is a lot better to convey the readers the feeling of the battle,imo Yagi is preparing the right pace to let the battle express at its best.
Looka t Pieta for example,the rhythm of that battle was already quite good,but as soon Rigardo came on the scene and killed in a single chapter different characters,the rhythm of the whole fight changed completely.....and even at that time i remember very clearly that there were tons of people saying that Yagi did something stupid and that he was rushing things killing all those great chars so soon........still,i think that that passage in the story was absolutely great,and in a similar way i 'm sure that once the picture will be complete even this battle will be very epic.

Quite... but it's misrepresenting what I meant. Priscilla is being summoned by this as explained by Dae yet the ghosts haven't even arrived. It seems there only point is either to back everyone up until Priscilla and/or Clare arrive or to organize the retreat. Once again rushed since there was huge set up already about what side Anastasia would take and now that plot point is meaningless and reduced to a red herring.

Still doesn't change the fact that you are complaining on nothing.
This is just in your mind atm,nowhere else,so it doesn't take to accuse the story to be rushed complaining about something that you are imagining but that could happen in a completely different way from what you think,lol.
For example it's absolutely possible that Deneve's group arrives on the battlefiel,Anastasia does all the chaiches that you wan ther to do, everyone do what they have to do.......and only at the very end the focus of the story will return to Claire and Prissy.
In other words,complaining on your imagination is not a valid critic to the real story,lol.

Oh so now the ghosts arrival is mandatory when you just didn't said you didn't care about when it happens .

Are you joking or are you saying this seriusly?
It's obvious that what i said about the ghosts arrival in 200 chapters it was simply a joke to say that the pace of the story would have been super slow.
And btw,where the hell have i said that i didn't care when the ghosts arrive? Could you quote me?

Anyways moving on from the double standard, while some of these could be revealed how much do you really expect to be revealed before Priscilla shows up and once she does is any of them going to be left alive for it to matter anyhow? That was the point I was making, by stating Priscilla cat nip has been thrown all over the ground Yagi just wrote himself into moving the plot forward likely before these points would be addressed. Hence from my pov rushed... these where all legit points one or two not showing up is one thing but this many is clearly rushing things.

It's you that don't get it.
What you are asking is something that in this manga is NOT MANDATORY.
It's just Claymore's style,there are a lot of important characters that had very little revealed about their background (someone almost nothing): what do we REALY know about Riful's life?Isley?Rigardo?Agatha?Jean?Flora?Undine?Deneve ?Helen?Tabitha?Cinthya?Yuma?.....do i really have to go on or do you get it?
It's the style-choice done in this manga, the readers cares for the characters for their actions,their behaviour and a lot of ather little things, flesh backs and personal infos are something that aren't necessarily included in this manga......and it's been this way from the very beginning,so the fact that you complain now is quite ridiculous imo.
Tbh i love this particular narrative style used in Claymore,what's not said simply doesn't matter,it's some sort of minimalistic approach (not in a negative way),very original and very fitting for this story (infact no one never complained about this for the old characters.....).

I never said anything about death... don't throw words in my mouth.

Obviously what i called "death" there was simply referring to the way Histy was defeated by Miria (i even saidthat she wasn't REALLY dead btw).I wasn't putting anything in your mouth,i was simply saying that not necessarily all deaths (or in this specific case,simple defeat) must be glorious.
At the same way the trigger that cause her awakening not necessarily has to be the most meaningful possible, so i really don't see why that fatal wound can't be a valid trigger for her awakening.
Imo you are once again complaining about nothing concrete.

Tabitha can sense the differences between awakened and none awakened... and she's by far the best set of eyes. Imagined, no... needed, maybe not however when combined with the list of overlooked plot elements it's clear something are being ignored for the sake of advancing the plot quickly

Needed?Why should be needed?
Sorry but it's not something needed at all,there really is no reason at all,it can very well be left implied that the ghosts already felt those yoki.
They already felt that something strange was going on in the battlefield,it's OBVIOUS that they are feeling those huge yoki now, so it's not necessary at all a scene where Taby says to the others: " Hey!Those things are WAYYYY STRONG!!!".
Do you really feel that it's a "necessary" scene?Really? Hahahaha!

There where a thousand ways things could have "gone bad" what made this one any better than last chapter when Cassandra awakened. Nothing really bad has happened yet and the introduction of them being Priscilla's cat nip could leave Yagi an exit to the "gone bad" here.

I have not said that something has gone bad,i said that the situation is going bad.Not the same thing.
And sorry if i consider being in the same battlefield as 3 AOs a bad situation....especially for Miria since i'm sure that Histy has no intention at all to get revenge,she doesn't seem someone that hold any grudge at all,i'm sure those two will become great friends....
And even for all the injured warriors around the battlefield i have no idea why i thought that things are going bad, they sure are in a very enviable position.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Solace

The flaw in Dae's plan: the Ghosts. It's pretty clear by now that while Miria and Claire are the strongest among them, they're all by far the most powerful Claymore in the story at this point. And they have reinforcements with them, and two more powerful Claymore stationed in Rabona.

Still this whole event brings up an interesting possible and plausible plot point, akin to Ghost in the Shell. Our understanding of death is that once a being dies, that's it. You can bring back the body, but the "soul" is gone. Here we see the complete opposite of that; not only did Dae bring the bodies back but they also have their old personalities (minus some memories).

This suggests that the "souls" Claire holds (Teresa, Irene, Raphaela, Luciella, and now Priscilla) could conceivably be "restored" as unique individual beings. I'm starting to think that we're nearing the answer to what Raphaela meant when she told Claire she was making a big mistake.

Remember that Raphaela gave Claire everything that was "her" before the Destroyer (this could imply she also gave Claire Luciella's memories too). Why would she do that? With the emphasis on "soul linking" and now being able to resurrect long dead Claymore complete with their "souls" intact....what exactly was the Organization (Dae) really experimenting on? Immortal warriors?

It does seem silly but there is something at work here that Yagi is driving at, I think.

Also, Cassandra's Awakened form totally gave me Gantz vibes.

Wow, how did I miss this post!!?

QFT!

Spoiler for pic:

[Nixl]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

page 26: Rubel said that the others are in a state of panic since they can't find Dae. Then he wants to confirm if the awakening of zombies was in the plan.
page 27: Dae said he is not running away, instead he just want a place to see the development. He explains that resurrection is impossible, and they are bound to awaken. Then Rubel question if Dae wants to destroy the organization (by releasing 3 ABs there). For this Dae answered that the organization is done for. The outcome was determined when all the warriors rebel. Even if the Mibs survive, the organization won't be able to return to operation. Now he just want to see the best creation.
page 28: Dae explained that he thought those three were his best creations and want to keep them near forever until he saw the arm: only one arm but with the power of an Abyssal Ones sealed in (don't start power ranking until you get the official translation).
the rest of pages: Not much except the previous mentioned plan to use the three to lure Priscilla.

Thanks Tom, that is really interesting. I would never suspect Dae giving up on the Organization and his research. It seems clear that his final wish is to see Priscilla or a warrior that he believes is close to perfection. To a degree, Priscilla may be what the org is looking for. She is immensely powerful, yet there is an element of restraint in Priscilla(did not eat for 7 years and fights rather conservatively with her yoki). If the Org could clone a warrior/AB Priscilla would probably be that candidate.

This leads me to an idea that I have been kicking around that Priscilla, despite being a villain in our eyes and Claire's antagonist, may actually be good in the most chaotic and indirect sense. While it is true that she wanted Claire this entire time, she had no real reason to kill Alicia, Beth, Riful, the Hellcats that massacred the village, Dauf, or attack the Destroyer's shell. She could easily have avoided all those obstacles to face Claire. And, while she did state that she was hungry, that reasoning came after she was already engaged in a fight(s). In essence, Priscilla has killed off a large portion of the major villains, which indirectly aided the ghosts as well as the island.

Am I saying Priscilla is hiding some grand scheme for the greater good? No, but unconsciously she could be making decisions to eliminate yoma and ABs. Perhaps a better line of reasoning would be whether Priscilla's hate of yoma/ABs have unconsciously carried over into awakened persona. We know Priscilla's method or style of fighting as a human also carried over into her awakened persona, but what else? I have to say that Priscilla is becoming a very fun character to interpret compared to the rest of the cast since she appears absolutely illogical in one sense, but completely devious in another. I do not think we have had such an idiosyncratic personality like Priscilla.

I am almost afraid of what this story will be like with just Claire.

Originally Posted by Ryus

I'm your huckleberry

Oh boy, just went I thought the innuendo had stopped Ryus had to kick it up a notch.

[Claymore!]

So the original spoilers were true. It does seem a little rushed but as long as we see clare again soon it will be alright.

And if Dae thinks that the large yoki will get priscilla's attention, does that mean that she will come out of the blob? I really don't think that will happen because if she is removed from the blob then won't she just destroy it and Clare? I think that Dae will just have to be disapointed on his failed attempt to lure priscilla.

[Gooral]

I agree with your reasoning Claymore! but I suspect Yagi will make everything according to Dae's desires. I also don't see how he could know it would lure them out (why would it?) but I'm sure that's what will happen. I wonder though how does he intend to clean up the mess he made. There are currently 3 new AOs which are rather hostile to each other, so what will Priscilla be needed for?

[Nixl]

@Gooral, based on Tom's summary Dae does not plan to clean it up. It seems like he has given up on the organization and his life just to meet Priscilla. If anything, Claire or Priscilla will be the clean up.

As far as how they are going to lure her out of the blob? That is a good question. I do not think anyone but the Ghosts know that she is trapped in a blob. Although, I am betting that Raki will have something to do with her release and the 3 FOs are an excuse to get him and the Ghosts to the blob.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Gooral

I agree with your reasoning Claymore! but I suspect Yagi will make everything according to Dae's desires. I also don't see how he could know it would lure them out (why would it?) but I'm sure that's what will happen. I wonder though how does he intend to clean up the mess he made. There are currently 3 new AOs which are rather hostile to each other, so what will Priscilla be needed for?

Well it could lure priscilla there. She could pop out of the destroyer and rush to the organization to see what was going on, while Clare reforms her body and follows after her. Priscilla could then have a 4-way battle between the new AOs. They new AOs would be killed by priscilla but they would weaken her enough so that Clare and the other ghosts could kill her. Then Clare and Raki could be reunited and Miria could destroy the Organization


Its a pretty out-there scenario, but it was just a thought i had.

[Shiek927]

Well, I'm using the minimal internet time I have to comment on the chapter after I just found the raw. As always, I haven't deliberately looked at all the previous comments so please don't say I'm just repeating what already has been said, since we're just gonna end up doing that all month anyway. I don't have much time, so I just want to say everything I want too.

Firstly, my initial impression was unfortunately disappointment -- if their are two things I was hoping would happen, it was 1) That none of the new No.1's would die first and foremost, and to a lesser degree, 2) That Cassandra in particular would not awaken. In general I was hoping that none of the warriors would awaken -- I just felt a greater attraction to that in that the previous trio of Abyssals were all Awakened, and that we could get a new trio that were all warriors...I don't know, something about the concept felt intriguing to me. Nevertheless though, I guess it was inevitable that at least one of them would...Roxanne felt the most inevitable giving her personality, and for a time, Hysteria when it seemed she would need to power up........Cassandra I was hoping would not awaken on the grounds that I was hoping she would eventually join the Ghosts, or at least, not end on the same lonesome path she had when she was alive because, plainly, she deserves better then what she had in her "original" life. Unfortunately, Awakening almost entirely makes that nosedive -- not that the possibility of Awakened joining the Ghosts doesn't exist (for so long it was thought that Riful may join them), but for now, with Awakened Beings still considered so taboo, the idea of joining with them regardless of who they are still hasn't yet been approached.

As for the events of the chapter, I honestly don't see all that much to comment - aside from the dialog between Dae and Rubel in the end, which I imagine everyone is dying to find out (assuming their hasn't already been reliable translations about them), it was another giant fight-chapter -- Cassandra gave me very strong Agatha vibes, and she took the 'Dust-Eater' title to a very literal sense. Her Awakened form itself is a very strange one to say the least....again, it feels very akin to Agatha, but whereas Agatha was very crab-like I feel, with her perched on top of the middle section, Cassandra's is basically a giant human bein, minus the head, perched on tentacles.....'Why' is the question in my mind. Agatha's I guess I can understand, in that hers is very round-ish -- she has a good view of the battlefield around her, while she attacks from the middle....in a sense, sort of like Riful except not as one giant being. Do the giant legs do anything? Will she grow parts?

It just feels very strange.....it seems like Yagi was going more for beauty then what would be tactically greater....or rather....we're seeing that perhaps Cassie may not have been as strong as all that. We know that the smaller or more human-sized you are, the better off you are....and while Cassandra was definitely a powerful Number 1 powerhouse...I suddenly feel she may not be as strong as 'all that', and not as powerful as one over an Abyssal. If the Awakened form reflects the user, I honestly was expecting more from her.

Not that it isn't intriguing to look at it, because it is....from a battle-perspective, I was expecting more....but it's been a long time since we saw a new Awakened form that was strange or eerie like this. In a way, I expected this kind of strange beauty from Hysteria's possible Awakening, but not from Cassandra.

As for the fight itself, everyone gets munched (litterally)...Roxanne in this chapter reminded me strongly of Ophelia seemingly getting killed by the AB they attempted to kill...how the AB twisted her head and it appeared that she died. In other words, it looks like Roxanne is biting off more then she can chew and that her relative-insanity is actually putting her in danger...if anything, it looks like she should just escape for the moment, but her excitement is keeping her in harm's way. The same perhaps for Miria and Hysteria; things are spiralling more and more out of control and it would be best for everyone to just amscray for now.

Brief fear that Hysteria would die from Miria's attack, but thankfully, that didn't happen....honestly, if Hysteria, or Roxanne, would die...coupled with Cassandra's awakening - I would have been wholly disappointed with this chapter.

I can't understand what's happening to Roxanne in the end as well....is she regenerating, or is Cassandra doing something to her? Perhaps Roxanne is utilizing one of the techniques she mimiced, or maybe Cassandra is infecting and/or absorbing her akin to Raciella...it's difficult to tell and I have to look more carefully at the chapter, or read the dialog when it gets translated.

I also want to give credit to Yagi for really expressing her hard everyone is fighting...grabbing the sword with Miria's mouth, the spit...I just got a huge sense of effort and stress from everyone in this chapter (at least those fighting anyway), and the art really expresssed that.

I also though want to know what the heck is happening with Raki and the people inside while this is going on...it's been a long time since we've seen them and I thought one of the spoiler said we'd see Raki, but that didn't happen....It's starting to feel 'off' to me that events on this level are going on and they are doing who knows what.

I got the feeling though this morning that we're suddenly gonna get a scene-change to Claire, or that we may see her very very shortly - it was just a feeling yes, but It wouldn't surprise me if we were left now hanging on Miria's crisis and suddenly moved onto what Claire was doing. Suddenly abrupt, yes, but we've had that plenty before.

[MalakTawus]

@Ryus

Continuation.....

Oh, so now you can see the future?

If you use a slow pace it's obvious that the action in the actual battle is penalized,that's not predicting future,that's logic.

I'm not saying a flash back at this very moment, I'm saying these three could have been the main plot element for the next half dozen chapters and we could have slowly learned a thing or two more about them before them being Priscilla's cat nip was revealed when the last of them finally awakened. Plus they all didn't need to die... maybe one of them could have left to go fest on a near by town but returned when Priscilla came after sensing her that way all 3 of them could have been there ready to attack her in the craziest case scenario.

Ok,i get it that you wanted a different evolution of the story....but just because Yagi opted for a completely different route it doesn't mean that he's rushing the story,he simply saw a different evolution for the plot....who are you to say that he is rushing things?
Imo it's quite arrogant on your part,just saying.

Prove it.

You are the one that said "these 3 have been here for only 5 chapters and all 3 have already awakened".
This has never happened before.
It wasn't difficult to prove it,lol.
You said yourself that this has never happened....and i don't see those 3 awakening so soon as a defect,that's what i was sayng.

Sorry for my reply being a point counterpoint. I never intended this I just wanted this to be a debate about what I felt and why you felt it wasn't rushed... not why I'm wrong and then you are. Sadly I forgot it's just your posting style to attack the opposite pov more often than resum up what you felt. However if you want a point counter point slug fest I'm your huckleberry ()

Ops......i also replied point by point........sorry.
You may not belive me but if i read this sooner i probably wouldn't have used a poin-to-point reply, it's just that sometimes i use this style to not forget anything,not because i like it in a particular way.



Anyway, i understand why you feel that the story is rushed and i respect your opinion even if personally i think that you are more annoyed by the fact that you would have preferred a more slow paced rhythm that gave the readers more background infos about the new characters,while i think that Yagi is simply continuing with the particular style that has characterized this manga from the very beginning.
I understand your view but i simply don't agree with it.

Since i know that it's very difficult to not respond to a point-to-point post like the one i did,feel free to respond like you feel.
I'll surely read your reply with attention,but maybe i won't respond (don't take it the wrong way,it's just that i think we should avoid a never-ending discussion on this subject alone....we both know that it's not good for our fingers,hahaha) or respond in a more "compact way" (LOL) on the more interesting and new points that you'll bring up.

[Jean Claymore]

Shit... Came too late for the party, again...
Any leftovers? I guess there are plenty of those Cassandra's heads eating dust

Back on topic.... Err, All-action based panels were ok, but still I think Yagi just got too excited of resurrecting the 3 #1s outlaying from the series' plot/standard knowledge of what we had known without any basis or clear explanations. I don't know... this is not Claymore-like.

My POV might change if we get a chance to see Dae's explanation, but only judging by its panels, *sigh it's kinda stupid including Miria's calling out her sword out of the blue and pierce the attack on Hysteria's throat.

[Ulquihorror]

I like this chapter because Yagi brought something new to the series. We have Laughing prostitutes, talented mouths, very firm boobies, and alot of heads.

[Claymore!]

More sexual innuendo

But is it still innuendo if you just bluntly say it?


But i hope the english version comes out soon, but i hope it doesn't come out while i'm at school. I really don't want to go through 10 pages of discussion that i would miss.

[Shiek927]

Alright, managed to read all the comments thus far -- and considering how many their were, I expected much more conversation: if anything, the majority of the comments were people flipping the hell out before the chapter even arrived yet, and even seemingly making up their minds on it; I guess all that's typical though, especially all chatroom-like posts and the sex jokes which was very funny -- nice to see that kind of enthusiasm and fun still goes on, even if not as much.

Personally, it was 'so-so-': I think I can understand why anyone would feel the way they did, good or bad. Miria having that sword in their mouth really showed me just how intense the whole situation and how fast it had gotten...the battle overall felt very extreme as I really felt the effort these guys were giving out. At the same time, thinking about it, I can understand why others are laughing at it - when you get down and think about it, It does feel weird indeed.

If anything, that could describe the chapter's feeling as a whole - Rushed - once you get into the flow, it's all exciting and fast-paced, but once you sit down, think, and analyze it, like we all will....it's not so good anymore. In the interest of fairness, I think we should remember both impressions.

As for the various posts in the thread....too little time, and too much to think on -- Tom Bombadil posted translations apparently of what Dae said, which I'm thankful for, since that's really the only dialog in this chapter worth learning about: We know Dae, and Rubel (not together of course though, though their have beens suspicions on Rubel's part) have been splintering away from the Org...that the Org is tearing itself from the inside-out more then ever...that said, it is a bit of a surprise in that Dae's intentions seemingly go further then that. He's not just out for himself in the sense that he wants to pursue his own intentions - like Rubel, if anything, he desires the end for the Org....but more then that, I also get the impression of a man wanting his last requestion. I don't know about the rest of you, but Dae honestly feels to me like a person who is going to die soon....perhaps he knows he will not undoubtedly survive the destruction of the Org, or perhaps he wants to end his life...the impression I simply get though in that, if this is true, that he awakened the No.3's purely to lure Priscilla out to destroy Staff and finish everyone off....and that he kept these No.1's arounds specifically because he held a 'fondness' for them...

I don't know; I just don't get the impression that Dae will survive all this, or that he even want too - if anything, regardless of wanting, he at least appears to acknowledge his own demise -- and with luring Priscilla to Staff, the likelihood of his own survival does seem minimal.

Why does he not then escape? Is he staying around to ensure the other MiB remain? what about the trainees, and Raki? Will Rubel warn them to escape? That does seem plausible...with Rubel's own ambitions possibly becoming a strong reality, I feel this may happen...you can argue that he isn't sympathetic enough to do something like this, but It's still there, and I feel he may warn them.

That said, both Nixl and Solace's posts I feel have been the strongest thus far -- in describing the 'souls' of the people, and Priscilla's unwillingly presence in Dae's plan. Solace's post isn't silly at all -- if anything, looking at the infected people of Raciella, it seems very close to truth: their minds are completely lost, but the 'souls' are still there in that Alicia and Beth still fight together, Beth cries for Alicia, and Dauf still protects Riful. The soul is an undeniably an important part of the mind/body/soul triumverate, arguably the most important. It seems like what Solace is suggesting is that the people who have died, will come back in new presumably human-bodys; the Jekyll and Hyde litterally splitting up.

Nixl's words on Priscilla also seem to be make great sense....Dae seems to acknowledge his demise and perhaps want to see what was the closest to ever being what the Org dreamed off - Raciella was close, but not sentient enough to fill in what they wanted; even if what they wanted was essentially just drones. More importantly, Nixl's words in that Priscilla is essentially being used as clean-up to destroy the Org seems to be exactly what's going on. That said, I don't need to say how I hate the idea of characters we saw coming back from the dead; It's something I do not want to see under any circumstances (the new No.3's were an exception in that they were new, even though they've lived before), though Solace's words make alot of sense.

Very good you two; I still have alot to read and catch-up on, so I don't know how in the end, my thoughts on this chapter will be....I feel it's one that takes awhile to grow on you, but right now, I can understand how anyone could feel what they do about it, whether positive or negative. Undoubtedly, we will analyze every piece throughout this month...though now considering Dae's words - the likelihood of a scene change to Claire seems very very strong now. Ryus' words for example on Yagi....they're nothing new unfortunately -- we know Yagi has been putting too many things into chapters....I haven't been 100% crazy for chapters since 100 more or less as Newhope said (Priscilla and the whole scent business was an unnecessary curve-ball that I'm still trying to figure out), Gooral's frustrations.....I haven't downright hated the chapters; I enjoy the new No.1's for instance...their is however, grains of truth, in just about what everyone is saying, again, whether positive or negative....so far, unless I missed it, I haven't seen anything that seemed 100% off to me, from anyone here.

[Ulquihorror]

Spoiler:

[limao]

Lol, like I suspected, a XL body with a tiny torso, very yagish

[MalakTawus]

About what Claymore! said, i think it would be quite funny if Dae's prediction to lure Prissy out would be an huge failure.
Afterall,if we think about it,it's not Prissy that decides if and when they can come out from the blob,it's Claire........and i doubt that Claire is interested in those 3 AOs.
Said that,Dae could be very lucky 'cause even if he doesn't know about Claire,Claire could be lured anyway,not by the 3 Aos,but by her friends in mortal danger,especially if some of them goes over the limit (Miria maybe?).
But i admit that would be an incredibly difficult choice for Claire,and she probably will decide to come out of the blob with Prissy only if she thinks to be strong enough to fight agains Prissy.....but for that to be possible something has to happen inside the "mental world".

@Jean Claymore

My POV might change if we get a chance to see Dae's explanation, but only judging by its panels, *sigh it's kinda stupid including Miria's calling out her sword out of the blue and pierce the attack on Hysteria's throat.

That was not her sword,it was a different one.

[limao]

I like this chapter because Yagi brought something new to the series. We have Laughing prostitutes, talented mouths, very firm boobies, and alot of heads.

Starting to look like berserk.

[Jean Claymore]

Originally Posted by limao

Starting to look like berserk.

Hm... Maybe that's why I started to feel this disappointment in Claymore. Berserk, for example started Godlike acquainting with the Band of the Hawks while it went downhills (IMO, nothing to criticize other ppl's taste) when Fairies and MORE RAPE where bundled within the manga. Jeez, at least I was hoping Claymore to be more realistic rather than just fairy-fantastical magic like Berserk... I wish Yagi doesn't rush up things at the end like the others say. Let's see.... Clare forgiving Priscilla and rendevous and marry Raki? FAIL

[carbontaxes]

lmao at the 3 people who -10 this chapter. hopefully, this means the forum won't see another post from any of you until at least next month. if ever.