[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 391 Discussion

[Kafriel]

Don't feel bad about it, point your finger and laugh

[DragoZERO]

Aizen is just surprised that they used teamwork. He isn't scared of dying or anything.

It would really suck if Gin kills him and takes control though. He really is a great villain and it would suck to see him go.

I am hoping Aizen is either using his shikai or puts on his hollow mask and blasts them all away.

[Alchemist007]

Gin killing Aizen would be lulz.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Farscape

Nope not really because it obviously depends on the given situation. For example now, they aren't in need of a Giant slow blocking machine(it's completley useless) but if they were it would've been of more use then Hitsugaya's icecapade.. get it? doesn't neccassarily mean weakness just more efficient.

...Er, what? My point was that Komamura wasn't any less useful than Hitsugaya in the SS arc and after that, it was only because of Hitsugaya's popularity that his abilities were developed and he got more screen time and has therefore had more uses. I have no idea what you're talking about...

You need to stop reading between the lines because it's very simple.. even though the fight didn't continue at full power.. it's still an event with highlights that were pretty much decisive.. They are both of a type to use excessive force to overcome their opponent and when your shikai has 0 effect on your oponent and when you get slammed to the ground like its nothing.. i think that pretty much says it all..

No it doesn't really. You need to understand that you can't just extrapolate like that. I'm not reading between the lines. I'm not assuming anything. That's exactly what I'm saying to you. You can't automatically decide how powerful Komamura's bankai is based on his shikai. There is no logical equation that use can use to work out the strength of someones bankai based on their shikai. The power levels in this manga are entirely based on plot convenience so don't even think it's worth anything.

In almost any even out battle or someone being a little stronger attacks can do damage but when the gab is so big.. attacks do nothing eg: Tousen vs Zaraki, Renji vs Byakyua, Ichigo vs Grimmjow (don't even mention the scar that was nothing) They clearly state the obvious in the end, no (equal or w/e) final blow needed.

This is even more confusing. Are you saying that it's only down to the last blow when the gap in power is big? You're wrong there. It was a pretty even fight with Hitsugaya and Hallibel but then suddenly Histugaya reveals some massive attack that's suddenly more than Hallibel can handle.

You can go bankai then.. and get ur paws chopped off like in future evens(Yammy) not a valid argument to use perhaps but it clearly says it all. It woudn't have changed a thing.

Er what, no it isn't a valid argument so it doesn't say anything at all. You only realised that big doesn't mean better a long while AFTER Komamura's fight with kenpachi. And that, in no way, has any implication to Komamura. None whatsoever. just because they both use brute force and are big doesn't mean Yammy and Komamura are exactly the same.

[monir]

Whoa! 200+ replies already on a 2 days old thread? I guess it was a good chapter! Thread is all stickied now.

[Kafriel]

Yay for the stickyyyyy! Also, if you notice, most of those 200+ have been four of us arguing over something totally different yet somehow relevant to the chapter

There is no logical equation that use can use to work out the strength of someones bankai based on their shikai. The power levels in this manga are entirely based on plot convenience so don't even think it's worth anything.

Quoting Yoruichi, [the effect of bankai can vary per individual], referring to the increase of potential, which is an average x10. So, this is a great tool to make anyone strong as long as they got bankai.

It was a pretty even fight with Hitsugaya and Hallibel but then suddenly Histugaya reveals some massive attack that's suddenly more than Hallibel can handle.

Why didn't she turn the snow into rain and kill Toushi instead btw, it was well within her power.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Yay for the stickyyyyy! Also, if you notice, most of those 200+ have been four of us arguing over something totally different yet somehow relevant to the chapter

So it means Kubo's talent at telling a viable story still remains elusive? Excellent!

Anyway, carry on!

[Farscape]

Originally Posted by Haak

No it doesn't really. You need to understand that you can't just extrapolate like that. I'm not reading between the lines. I'm not assuming anything. That's exactly what I'm saying to you. You can't automatically decide how powerful Komamura's bankai is based on his shikai. There is no logical equation that use can use to work out the strength of someones bankai based on their shikai. The power levels in this manga are entirely based on plot convenience so don't even think it's worth anything.

Previous events and stuff that has been mentioned suggest otherwise, I mean even Aizen is saying it in this very chapter.. to Soi Fon.. that her attack cannot reach him because of the difference in their reatsu, it is to huge..

Similar to when Ichigo coudn't cut Zaraki..

Komamru and Yammy aren't the same offcourse not but they are of the same type thats the whole point... only Yammy has power, Komomaru on the other hand doesn't have shit.

Originally Posted by Haak

.
This is even more confusing. Are you saying that it's only down to the last blow when the gap in power is big? You're wrong there. It was a pretty even fight with Hitsugaya and Hallibel but then suddenly Histugaya reveals some massive attack that's suddenly more than Hallibel can handle.

.

Edit from you to is*

Anyway when you said isn't that is what i got from you..(from ur earlier post), that when a battle is even out or the gap 'isn't' that big the final blow is decisive. My mistake i guess.

Originally Posted by Haak

...Er, what? My point was that Komamura wasn't any less useful than Hitsugaya in the SS arc and after that, it was only because of Hitsugaya's popularity that his abilities were developed and he got more screen time and has therefore had more uses. I have no idea what you're talking about...
.

This is starting to get a little annoying, it's either that we are both misunderstanding eachother or you conveniently changing your story.

You made an implication that i implied that Komamrua was weaker than Hitsugaya.. then i said it could be interpreted multiple ways.. etc

Then you stated that you could replace weaker and strong to of more use and useless etc etc

I based that your implication came from the 'i wonder why Hitsugaya is still standing part' that i stated earlier because that is what it is all about.. Hitsugaya still standing because his abilities are obviously of more use ergo making him more useful etc. atm

This is obviously all based on current events and not the SS arc.. neither of them was of any use in the SS arc. Hitsugaya still standing now has 0 relevance to the ss arc.

[Bassoonicmayhem]

Originally Posted by Farscape

You are right so that means my earlier statements are granted, i mean i think and i said they are all weak, right? :P

But the way you say it makes it seem that their all so weak that they’re not even worth evaluating. It’s as if you’re completely disregarding their pros and only looking at the cons. Everyone has weak points, but they also have strong points too. I’m not saying that they’re all weak, but that they have weak points. They have things to them that make them stronger than other, but they do have weak points. I’m not saying that their weak, but lacking in some areas. And of course none of the captains are as strong as Aizen; he’s the main antagonist of the series, in the end Ichigo is supposed to defeat him.

Let me explain something.. When you start a fight? what will you do to try and defeat your opponent knowing alot about them. Because from notibale events we can clearly assume that Komamru isn't only weak but stupid aswell. His role was just to sacrifice himself for the cause lol.

Stupid? Komamura is one of the most philosophical shinigami of the bunch. He’s had to go through so much prejudice because of the way he looks, yet he doesn’t let that faze him as he had before. He’s able to understand the world around him; sure at the beginning of the manga he had some insecurities about having the features of a dog, but who wouldn’t? He was also able to evaluate Tousen very well once he had fallen to the absolute low. I not saying that Kubo didn’t make him a sacrifice character, he is, but he’s not stupid.

I mean Soi Fon might not be the strongest but she's diffinitley not stupid hence why she used an ability that suited the situation. what did Komamuru do? He just went head on against an opponent he knows is way stronger in everything he can, i mean more power/bigger reatsu and then to make it even more easy for him he goes and try to attack him with an overlarged slow bankai that doesnt even measure up to the force his opponent has? i mean is that smart?

Komamura didn’t go “head on” against Aizen though. He attacked Aizen along with Love after Toshiro failed to hurt Aizen (or at least that’s what I saw.) He did apologize for interrupting and ended up getting his hand chopped off and almost cut in half. None of the Captains (as it appears right now) are strong enough to defeat Aizen. They’re all trying to fight him together, so does that make them stupid as well? They’re trying to use a strategy that works; unfortunately, it’s not working in their favor.

It just clearly shows that he doesn't have anything to offer to the table.. Thats just what makes him even worse he doesn't have anything else to offer no speed, no kidou, not shunko, no special abilities only thing that can be concluded is what..

Originally, I had a very long paragraph, but no matter what I say you’re just going to continue to refer to this. You’ve been spouting this from the very beginning and I still don’t agree with you and I don’t even want to bother with this anymore, so let’s just agree to disagree.

Even though i believe Soi Fon is weak aswell(it's a personal opinion), she is a tough fighter with alot of cool stuff. she at least has something to offer.

I agree with that statement. There’s not much more that I can add to that but say that I disregarded some of the information that you had typed out in the parentheses.

Uryu? comon he's usually just in the way…

Yeah, but he’s not as bad as Chad.

[Submerged]

Great chapter!! Just when I was about to roll my eyes at the untouchablness of Aizen, kubo tricked me.....but I have no doubt Aizen will be back smiling and uber badassing next chapter, then i'll roll my eyes.lol

Though it would make for an interesting twist if there was someone using Aizen as a puppet this entire time, but i doubt it'll happen.

[Calca]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

Gin killing Aizen would be lulz.

Gin killing Aizen would prove that Kubo had no idea what to make of a bankai for Aizen.

[Ulquihorror]

if soifon can't pierces through aizan because a battle between shinigamis is a battle between their reiatsu levels, why the hell can little hitsugaya pierce aizen? I hope soifon uses that move on hitsugaya so he can finally disappear!

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Ulquihorror

if soifon can't pierces through aizan because a battle between shinigamis is a battle between their reiatsu levels, why the hell can little hitsugaya pierce aizen?

Each Hitsugaya fan adds +1 to his max power level.

[kamyu]

Originally Posted by Ulquihorror

if soifon can't pierces through aizan because a battle between shinigamis is a battle between their reiatsu levels, why the hell can little hitsugaya pierce aizen? I hope soifon uses that move on hitsugaya so he can finally disappear!

from the looks of the picture she did pierce him. he just negated the ability

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by kamyu

from the looks of the picture she did pierce him. he just negated the ability

I thought he used his uber reiatsu to deflect it.

[kamyu]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I thought he used his uber reiatsu to deflect it.

he didn't specifically say. he said 'my reitsu will crush your attacks and powers'
and if you look at the preceding couple pages, soifon pretty clearly stabs him.
not to mention she is looking right at it right in front of her face. would be pretty embarrassing if she didn't realize that she just broke her finger on his chest.

[SeanQ]

Picture is misleading...looks more like Aizen caught her hand before it reached.
Doesn't make much sense if Aizen is able to negate Suzumebachi's abilities just because he has more reiatsu...

[Zu Ra]

As Kamyu said, Aizen negated the poison completely with reatsu . Its the same reason why Ichigo couldn't cut Zaraki . Zaraki too didn't deflect it , his reatsu rendered Zangetsu's Edge blunt .

Here is a zoomed image its a clean stab . In my opinion the black In & Around the stab is not blood . But the pattern trying to spread from Suzembachi

[SeanQ]

Originally Posted by Zu Ra

As Kamyu said, Aizen negated the poison completely with reatsu . Its the same reason why Ichigo couldn't cut Zaraki . Zaraki too didn't deflect it , his reatsu rendered Zangetsu's Edge blunt .

Here is a zoomed image its a clean stab .

I think that's just bs pulled out of Kubo's ass for Aizen to live...
Blocking attack is one thing with reiatsu...but...this is poison in the body and auto death in two hits...I don't see how reiatsu would negate that...

[Langus]

It's kind of a moot point if she doesn't land two hits then, no?