2012-10-03, 20:58 | Link #61 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Well, sure, but nowadays, in the United States, you have Crunchyroll, Viz, The Anime Network, Funimation, Hulu, and official streams on Youtube. So nowdays, the library argument is pretty much gone. Probably a different story 5-10 years ago. (Besides, the library metaphor is a big broken in the sense that when one person borrowed a book, someone else couldn't have it. So it's really a model based on physical objects. The library had to buy those books, and often at inflated prices, in order to have the right to lend them out.)
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2012-10-03, 22:20 | Link #62 | |
Battoru!
Join Date: Sep 2012
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You never know. |
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2012-10-04, 05:07 | Link #63 | |||
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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The reality is that when you buy a DVD you're not paying for the production of that anime, that anime already exists and has been paid for. What you're doing is paying for the next production. If you think about it what you're talking about is even riskier to the consumer, because he has no idea what that money will be put towards. On the other hand, if I'm choosing to contribute $X to a particular project I'll probably have some character designs, a simple plot synopsis and the staff. So I can choose for my money to be put towards the next innovative Mecha show, and not have the studio choose to put my money towards yet another generic harem show. Not only that, but if I were to donate 100% of my money will go to the studio. If, on the other hand, I buy a DVD it's probably closer to 30%, with the rest going to Amazon, various distributors, the DVD manufacturer, all people who are superfluous to the supply chain of getting the Anime into my hard drive. Really the only important people are the studio and translators. And translators have been shown to be willing to work for free so... Quote:
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But to be honest, as I said earlier, even if I did have the money, I probably still wouldn't spend it on anime. Anime isn't offering me the product I want. I have no interest in owning DVDs, and I don't want to see a large proportion of the money I put into industry be wasted on round pieces of plastic, and their distribution. |
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2012-10-04, 05:51 | Link #64 | ||
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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The way you are making it sound is as if you can't appreciate a thing what those people (All the animators, seiyuus, producers etc.) are doing. It's probably true that lots of people in this forum don't have an income and that's why i think that they don't know how the hardships of people who are working. People like youself only look at the product, while purely neglecting all the effort that was put into that work. Quote:
If you even want to see a "next project", then you don't want the investors to leave because they won't have faith in that the next project will earn them anything. Last edited by hyl; 2012-10-04 at 06:12. |
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2012-10-04, 07:20 | Link #65 |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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If anime BD's had more eps in them then the price could be justified....
As they are now, I don't see how it makes financial sense to spend on the video portion of anime. They cost more than games and have far less content If you love a series it's more worthwhile to buy other items like the original work that spawned the anime if it's an adaptation or artbooks and other extra content
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2012-10-04, 07:52 | Link #66 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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[QUOTE=hyl;4380778]Let's look it at the other way around, this socalled piece of plastic is what they earn their money with.
The way you are making it sound is as if you can't appreciate a thing what those people (All the animators, seiyuus, producers etc.) are doing. It's probably true that lots of people in this forum don't have an income and that's why i think that they don't know how the hardships of people who are working. People like youself only look at the product, while purely neglecting all the effort that was put into that work. [quote] I have great respect for the Anime industry. I just want to give my money to them directly. Not through a dozen intermediaries. It's like with games. Now I only buy games online, because I know that (depending on the website) over 70% of my money is going towards the original developers/publishers, not Gamestop. When I buy a Paradox grand strategy game (my favourite developer), I want my money to go to Paradox, not someone else. That's my prerogative as a consumer, and I will always buy from platforms where more of my money goes to the developers I love. The same goes for Anime. I don't give a damn about bestbuy, Bandai, Mediablasters, Aniplex or Funimation. They did good work in the past, but now they're a completely superfluous barrier between me and the creators. Quote:
Unfortunately, under the previous system, to be an investor you need to have a lot of money (and speak Japanese...), which is not possible for me. But I think through crowdfunding, this is possible. Of course, there's always a risk that I'll donate to a project that turns out to be a dud, but on the flipside, when something amazing gets made I'm going to have the satisfaction of knowing that I helped make that happen. And not simply that I consumed it after the fact. I want future anime production to work like Patronage, not consumer goods. In Patronage an artist goes to his patron and describes what he wants to create, and if the Patron finds it appealing, then the patron gives the artist his money. The Artist gets to create the great work that the Patron wants to see. And through this the artist might also gather enough extra profit to be able to self fund a project that he wants but that no patron cares for. Both the Artist and Patron wins, and it allows a scope for projects that may not be commercially viable or "toyetic" enough. Basically I want to see a situation where us consumers collectively are the patrons, and not bean counting investors who are more concerned with commercial viability and minimizing risk. I don't want to be an Anime consumer, I want to be an Anime Patron. Art should not be regarded as a consumer product. But those of us who want to see it should give money to those who make it happen (artists need to eat!). Charging for access to it after the fact is pointless, because you can't stop people from seeing it without paying for it. It's pointless to even try. You have to charge for it before it's been created. |
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2012-10-04, 08:01 | Link #67 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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You know, the funny thing is, the law is mostly aimed at music and movies, those that are hit hard by pirating. Anime by itself is not as hardly hit in any sense, since DVDs are really a niche market (and lucrative enough to pay back investments, given that those that will buy the DVDs will buy the DVDs no matter what happens) and manga books are cheap enough to not stop people from buying. I'm not really seeing the point to the discussion of buying anime DVDs here.
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2012-10-04, 08:08 | Link #68 |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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Well the US market in Anime DVDs is basically collapsing. And that was big enough to be a boon to Japanese producers. I can't say much about the Japanese market, but certainly if they want to get the potential money lying there in western Otaku wallets, they're not going to get anywhere with the previous "mass market DVD" approach. People just aren't as interested in buying DVDs anymore. And why should they be? DVDs are inferior to downloads in every respect.
But even in Japan, I think there's a lot of untapped potential. Let's not forget that the potential Otaku audience is somewhere around 1-5 million (someone else can give a better estimate), while most DVDs never sell more then 10,000 copies, with the best sellers selling 50,000. I bet that like in the west, there's a lot of Japanese Otaku who rarely or never buy DVDs, and that they make up maybe 90% of the audience. What the Japanese system is doing very well is exploiting the enthusiasts who are willing to spend craploads of money on the hobby. |
2012-10-04, 08:14 | Link #69 | |||
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Of course everyone wants directly in control in what they want to see get created. But you do know that you are wishing for something nearly impossible seeing how this capitalstic world works. The individual consumer usually does not have the resources and the power to have any influence over any big projects in this world. This is not just limited to anime, but for everything. Also it seems you are boycotting this for the wrong reasons. Artists needs to eat, yes. But without any big projects, they won't be able to eat. Not that i am defending how the anime industry (actually this applies to every major company) works, seeing that the top and the investors gets most of the profit while the rest of the staff just get paid based on their wages. But that is how the whole capitalistic system works . Quote:
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2012-10-04, 08:18 | Link #70 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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And that's the point of the system. In an era where you can easily record broadcasts to watch later, does it make sense to try and crack down on "pirated" anime in the first place? Setting aside the issue of people outside of Japan (who are not under this law in the first place and have a much higher barrier t the market unless you're in Korea or Taiwan), the anime industry as a whole recognizes reality and have adjusted to it, with DVDs being more of getting back the investment and all other products (figures, OVAs, games, etc) being the ones that lead to extra income. It's because of the core way the system works that doujinshis and such can flourish without much problems: Doujinshis lead to the growth of the fan base, who might buy the DVDs (thus contributing to getting the investment back) and the related products (making a profit). Such a system does not really work for the music and movie industry, thus they were the ones pushing for this law.
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2012-10-04, 08:28 | Link #71 | ||
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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OAV: You do know it's technically a non broadcasted anime episode. Which means it has the same costs as an actual episode except for the costs related to reserving airing slots on tv. games: Those are entirely different projects by themselves, with their own investments and costs. |
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2012-10-04, 08:33 | Link #72 | |||
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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If the Anime industry sticks to making money through optical disc sales, they'll die along with the optical disc format which is rapidly becoming obsolete. Quote:
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2012-10-04, 08:40 | Link #73 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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OAV: And how much do you think the TV slots are worth? A cost not spent is a potential source of income or alternative investment. Games: Same as the figures. Quote:
1. DVDs are a lot more common in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, than elsewhere. A lot of people want to have physical copies, which still drives various physical forms of recorders/players. 2. Quite a few people buy the boxes just to keep it. I happen to be one of those (I usually buy three copies, one for backup, one for permanent display, one for use). In fact, if anything, the digital age is driving the sales of DVDs by creating the demands through the building of the fan base. |
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2012-10-04, 09:06 | Link #74 | |||
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Are you denying that the world does not work this way , just because there are one or more of these incidental cases compared to everything else? Quote:
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OAV: And oav does not cover the costs of the anime project, seeing that it has it's own costs to cover. Games: Games are completely different projects. They are usually both tools used to market eachother, not to cover each others costs. You don't think that Hunex gave any of their profits to manglobe or vice versa for the psp port or the anime of Mashiro iro Symphony, do you? Or Kadokawa games and AIC for koichoco psp game and anime |
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2012-10-04, 09:16 | Link #75 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Akazukin Chacha Kaiba Comet-san (someone fansub this, dammit! It's not as fun to watch without subs...) Heartcatch Precure + movie Mind Game Though: A) I'm probably an outlier B) I pirated all of that first. Most of my (substantial) R1 collection are things that I pirated first. Nowadays, it isn't needed so much because of readily available legitimate streaming services, but certain shows, like everything in my R2 list, don't have streams and probably will never get them.
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2012-10-04, 09:21 | Link #76 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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2012-10-04, 09:47 | Link #77 | |||
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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2. And people still buy records too. But they're an extreme minority, and not enough to build a business model around. At best it's a supplementary source of income. Depending on disc sales will limit the potential size of the Anime industry, as it fails to take account of all the consumers(like me) uninterested in buying disks, but still interested in putting money into it. Quote:
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That, and they could use some alternative revenue streams. Things like Art Books, Concept art etc. Sell off some of the production materials to enthusiasts. But the truth is, the industry doesn't really have a choice. It's not a matter of if disk media will die. It's when. Disks are an outdated business model unsuited to the new digital marketplace. They'll be selling things that people simply aren't interested in buying. Most people don't think disks are worth anything anymore. Love it or hate it, but people view the content as "free". People don't like putting a price tag on ideas. So instead of charging for ideas after the fact, the only way forward I can see is to ask for money to develop those ideas in the first place. It will spur greater audience participation, by in some sense putting them in direct control of what is made, and what isn't. |
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2012-10-04, 10:32 | Link #78 | |
うるとらぺど
Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 44
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2012-10-04, 11:31 | Link #79 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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But there isn't any reason why a soft copy wouldn't be superior to a bluray. For one thing, data will always be read faster from a hard drive. The only real issue is the encoding. A heavily encoded video will run poorly on a bad computer. My connection is pretty terrible, but even I have an easy enough time getting 720p content (1080p is a bit trickier). If you're having trouble with your blu-ray rips, I'd recommend a computer upgrade. Fortunately a computer upgrade has many more uses then a blu-ray player... |
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2012-10-04, 11:41 | Link #80 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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