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raile · 2008-10-30, 21:14

Gah. I hate Sues. >_<

@justavisitor:

Ranka just needs to feel remorse for the things she caused, indirectly or not--instead of just reveling in her loli-glory like nothing happened. Why are you always trying to make her out as some innocent faultless little girl when that's clearly not the case?

justavisitor · 2008-10-30, 21:17

@ickem

Really, Really thank you for your detailed and thoughtful post. Here are some points I want to share with you:

1) I agree and have been saying that Ranka should not go alone with Vf-27...it's suicidal..she should have discussed it with ppl in quartar (besides, she should ask ppl in quarter if they see her brother..her brother was missing XD) The purpose was not wrong but she could have done better

2)I am not sure Ai-kun could talk with her tho...all we see the "communication" between Ranka and Vajra is done in a sub-conscious way...like Vajra used Ranka's mom image to communicate with Ranka's mind

3)She searched Alto and wants some opinion from him...I am fine with that, her movement was restricted, and she always admire Alto and thinks he knows a lot..after all, it was Alto who encouraged her all the time (from ep 1 till 20) She only had one pain from her stomach that time, and when she had that pain again and again, she started to discover something else and started the journey

4)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ickem

I do not argue that she should be charged with having committed a crime, but that she should feel some guilt over how things turned out as well has having to win back her place in Frontier society.

While I keep saying she does not commit any sin or crime (seems like you agree this part? [that "do not argue" statment from you]XD) she does feel sad about her action, back in ep 24, she muttered, "it was because of me" and then got controlled..but she gathered her courage and let the past go and helps Frontier in the last episode...so she did feel sad about her action, she might have let that feeling behind her temporary because she had things to do (save frontier) or she really lets it go and concentrate on future, that I do not know, but she did feel sadness in ep 24...that's why I got confused when ppl say she never bears any "guilt" to her action..

@raile
I don't know if my point #4 answer you indirectly? I just saw your post and I don't know if you feel my #4 answer your question

ickem · 2008-10-30, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by justavisitor

@ickem
2)I am not sure Ai-kun could talk with her tho...all we see the "communication" between Ranka and Vajra is done in a sub-conscious way...like Vajra used Ranka's mom image to communicate with Ranka's mind

Actually her journey showed that could communicate with each other.

Quote:

3)She searched Alto and wants some opinion from him...I am fine with that, her movement was restricted, and she always admire Alto and thinks he knows a lot..after all, it was Alto who encouraged her all the time (from ep 1 till 20) She only had one pain from her stomach that time, and when she had that pain again and again, she started to discover something else and started the journey

I'm of the belief that advice coming from someone who does not know the circumstances well enough is not really advice. Alto had no idea that Ranka had communicated with the Vajra and was still able to do so. She asked for his advice without giving him any of the information that was causing her to have doubts about what she was doing. He is a soldier so of course he would have told her to do as she was doing since to him her songs were saving the lives of his comrades. Because of that I can't really fault Ranka's decision, but it is the way she came to it. She did not weigh the pros and cons of what she would do, she simply foisted the decision onto Alto and went with what he wanted.

Quote:

4)

While I keep saying she does not commit any sin or crime (seems like you agree this part? [that "do not argue" statment from you]XD) she does feel sad about her action, back in ep 24, she muttered, "it was because of me" and then got controlled..but she gathered her courage and let the past go and helps Frontier in the last episode...so she did feel sad about her action, she might have let that feeling behind her temporary because she had things to do (save frontier) or she really lets it go and concentrate on future, that I do not know, but she did feel sadness in ep 24...that's why I got confused when ppl say she never bears any "guilt" to her action..

@raile
I don't know if my point #4 answer you indirectly? I just saw your post and I don't know if you feel my #4 answer your question

On the contrary, I feel that she definitely committed sins i.e. actions that caused much harm. The difference I see between sin and crime is that crimes can be prosecuted under the law while sins are usually things that one must come to terms with by themselves. Ranka's biggest sin was to cling to ignorance when she should have asked questions. Her pang of guilt was for the destruction of the 117th research fleet, not for what she did to Frontier. She seemed unable to see what her actions would do to Frontier. Her leaving it basically left it to the not so tender mercies of the Vajra. Someone brought up the point that Ranka is seemingly incapable of empathizing with others in one of the other threads, i.e. she cannot see through a point of view other than her own. She has an almost pathological mentality that what is best for her is inherently best for everyone else. But, back to the guilt she felt when she found out she was responsible for what happened to the 117th fleet, notice that she retreats into a shell and allows Grace and Galaxy to use her instead of confronting reality. She claimed that she went away to find out the truth since it would be best for her even if what she discovered was painful. Her actions did not match her words yet again. She fled into a catatonic state because the truth was painful when she should have followed through on her words and faced her past instead.

justavisitor · 2008-10-30, 23:45

But she did break though that catatonic state at the end, so like I suggest in the last post, she either let go of that feeling temporary or faced the past and now concentrate on saving Frontier

And she basically has no one to ask besides Alto in ep 18? I really doubt that little ai-kun could do any communication with her

The way I see tho Ranka is that she is an unfortunate person who has the power she really can't handle....she tried, but not with too much success...on a side note, for example, she did volunteer to join sms to fight vajra..you can argue it's only because of Alto, but in the end, she still saved Frontier a lot of times...and based on the fact that only she goes though a lot of these special experience and like you said, no one can really give her advice, that's why I feel she hasn't committed any sin or crime

kujoe · 2008-10-31, 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak

Actually no, he said "So Ranka did betray humanity". I take it you are referencing that scene where giant Ranka overwhelmed the Macross Frontier fleet?

I'm not sure if it's a fansub issue, but the line is on episode 25, when Ranka starts singing for the fleet way before Alto is able to save her. Upon hearing her song, the vajra change mood, and the command center notices this. Then someone throws us that line.

The exact translation by gg is: "What?! Ranka didn't betray humanity?" Well, the truth is, she didn't betray them but it also sort of demonstrates what I was talking about.

I think no one is actually blaming Ranka for not knowing anything. Actually, she does know about the power of her song, but trauma has affected her past memories. However, she gets to remember and understand towards the end, and the question is now regarding what will she do about it. Instead of asking that question, the series paints her as a victim of circumstance... and she remains that way.

Now Sheryl gets the short end of the stick too, but while Sheryl is left to pick up the pieces of her life with Alto's support, Ranka goes on a so called coming of age journey with Brera. All well and good, and something that I actually welcomed, but the problem is it gets cut short with Grace coming to pick them up. Due to this, I don't get the impression that Ranka has gone full circle with that. Something is just lacking.

It's not that Ranka isn't held accountable for anything at all, but rather by the dictates of the story it's as if you really can't. In the end, that's what disappoints me even more.

ickem · 2008-10-31, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by justavisitor

But she did break though that catatonic state at the end, so like I suggest in the last post, she either let go of that feeling temporary or faced the past and now concentrate on saving Frontier

And she basically has no one to ask besides Alto in ep 18? I really doubt that little ai-kun could do any communication with her

The way I see tho Ranka is that she is an unfortunate person who has the power she really can't handle....she tried, but not with too much success...on a side note, for example, she did volunteer to join sms to fight vajra..you can argue it's only because of Alto, but in the end, she still saved Frontier a lot of times...and based on the fact that only she goes though a lot of these special experience and like you said, no one can really give her advice, that's why I feel she hasn't committed any sin or crime

Well she only came out of that state when Sheryl's song reached her. She had plenty of people to ask. Ozma, for instance, was in a much better position to give her advice, but she called Alto to ask him to come to her. And Ai-kun could communicate with her once it molted. She was the one who told Brera that Ai-kun was almost done getting a lock on the home planet. No one is arguing that she didn't help, but that she chose not to help when they really needed that help. Frontier was falling about after episode 20, but she left. Also I don't remember her trying to actively control her power. She just knew that she had the power, but, again, never questioned why she had such a power. Grace may have given her pointers, but Ranka never showed that she really thought about her powers.

KiNA · 2008-10-31, 01:09

You guys are really going offtopic by kidnapping the general purpose of this very thread ^^

BetoJR · 2008-10-31, 02:01

I concur, even if I'm also to blame. Obviously, nothing we say will change the views of some Ranka-fans and - more obviously, still - they won't be able to do the same. So, I guess, why bother?

justavisitor · 2008-10-31, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ickem

Well she only came out of that state when Sheryl's song reached her. She had plenty of people to ask. Ozma, for instance, was in a much better position to give her advice, but she called Alto to ask him to come to her. And Ai-kun could communicate with her once it molted. She was the one who told Brera that Ai-kun was almost done getting a lock on the home planet. No one is arguing that she didn't help, but that she chose not to help when they really needed that help. Frontier was falling about after episode 20, but she left. Also I don't remember her trying to actively control her power. She just knew that she had the power, but, again, never questioned why she had such a power. Grace may have given her pointers, but Ranka never showed that she really thought about her powers.

But then it's a lose-lose situation lol..ppl blamed her for letting Grace control her and ppl blamed her for trying to get break through...I guess one of the ideas in Frontier is one person cannot save the day...you need ppl to work together to get the job done.

She can't question where she got the power anyway because no one will answer to her. I doubt Grace will be that kind enough to give her any pointers. And Ranka did have a body check after ep 15...i think the result is everything normal...so it's like she doesn't even know where to start questioning XD

Now that you mention it, I sort of remember the scene ai-kun getting a lock in the planet...can't be sure...if that's the case, maybe it was ai-kun who invited her to take a visit then XD? I guess we will never know for sure

ppl have been saying this thread got hijacked so unfortunately I have to stop.....nice having a discussion with you, and thanks for giving me an another view of looking at things.

Sincerely,
justavisitor

kujoe · 2008-10-31, 12:44

I don't get it. Why would others blame Ranka for breaking through Grace's influence?

Moreover, it's not really about getting straight answers per se, but the idea of wanting to know in the first place, as in to ask. You're confusing the two.

Shakir · 2008-11-01, 00:47

I loved the series but only gave it an 8/10.

Minus 1 for Ranka singing 'Aimo' over and over and over and over again ... Sure its good, yeah, I liked it the first time but after that ... it was just getting a bit boring.

Minus 1 more for the fact that they didn't resolve the love triangle. I mean, the love triangle started at episode 3 to say the least. Come on man! The series started with the love triangle and focused so much on it but yet left it unsolved! I am seriously suffering withdrawal symptoms because of that ... I was shipping for Alto x Sheryl.

However, at the final episode, Ranka said something about not losing in love and singing or something so I think the love triangles supposed to continue off series or even solved in the movie. Honestly enough, I really felt Alto should end up with Sheryl. Maybe its just me but I prefer mature women and Sheryl seems a lot more mature than Ranka.

Tak · 2008-11-01, 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakir

Maybe its just me but I prefer mature women and Sheryl seems a lot more mature than Ranka.

Nah, that goes for you and the vast majority.

And its not only that Sheryl was mature, she was beautiful in both mind and body.

- Tak

Father Hentai · 2008-11-03, 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak

Nah, that goes for you and the vast majority.

And its not only that Sheryl was mature, she was beautiful in both mind and body.

- Tak

uhm. maybe only in body. at the beginning of the series she was everything but beautiful in her mind. except when she feels a cell phone through altos' trouser pocket.

Shakir · 2008-11-03, 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

uhm. maybe only in body. at the beginning of the series she was everything but beautiful in her mind. except when she feels a cell phone through altos' trouser pocket.

Lawl, I'll have to agree with you on the part of the beginning of the series. I kinda raised an

or two when Sheryl told off Cathy for letting 'amateurs' work for her concert. I was like,

"Son of a ..." but then throughout further episodes, her personality really opened up to show her as a confident, strike-taking person that I just had to like.

About that part of the cell phone ... lawl. It was kinda funny when Alto got blamed for putting his cell phone in 'perverted' places.

Father Hentai · 2008-11-03, 06:26

Well the explanation for acting like a diva is because she has no social relationship until the moment she met alto. starting to "date" him she get's more and more starting to live Sheryl in private.

YunaX · 2008-11-05, 10:20

So here I am, after spending days on the series without any backtracking to its franchise, writing a piece of brief review cum personal opinions.

The show starts off with an astounding song performance by May'n and later Ai; yes, Youko Kono may be one of the best music composers to date. Truly outstanding melodies that brings forth the thrill of the mecha battles, together with the fantastic voices from the singers. This show has successfully utilize their talents and arguably one of the best in its genre after Nana the Animation.

However, such achievement has been trolled by its inconsistent and slightly outdated artworks. It may give bad first impressions to those who are new to the series; but if you stayed a bit longer, the mecha design, animation and battle scenes may have impressed you. Technically speaking, for a well-known and a highly anticipated series like this one, it deserves better artworks.

A fresh cast of characters may also be the selling point of Macross Frontier; from a kabuki protagonist, to the galaxy's well known super star, each with their own unique characteristics and unforgettable appearances. (Sheryl FTW! Seriously i like matured girls with initiative <3)

For new watchers - If you take some time and read up the backstory of previous Macross, it makes Frontier's story much more engaging and meaningful. However, its dragging plot at the middle of the series may pull down the overall score a little, but it is later saved by the touching twist of plot.

I give this show a 9 out of 10 for its brilliant combination of music and mecha-action, plus the cast of beautiful characters and several memorable scenes. What we're hoping to see next, will be its movie coming out soon. Let's pray for the best and hopefully, will blow all of our heads.

YunaX, out

herbert · 2008-11-10, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakir

Lawl, I'll have to agree with you on the part of the beginning of the series. I kinda raised an

or two when Sheryl told off Cathy for letting 'amateurs' work for her concert. I was like,

"Son of a ..." but then throughout further episodes, her personality really opened up to show her as a confident, strike-taking person that I just had to like.

About that part of the cell phone ... lawl. It was kinda funny when Alto got blamed for putting his cell phone in 'perverted' places.

So, we still get some ppl can't remember what those amateurs have done in her concert? She just told the cold truth. Maybe too cold for some ppl to like, but it's the truth nevertheless.

Hi, everyone, I am back. Just saw NT poll for Dec. Sheryl climbed to 2nd place for the 1st time.

BetoJR · 2008-11-11, 04:56