[Manga] Chapter 397 Spoilers Discussion

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Rurik

Also, what makes you think that these clan willingly Joined Konoha? The History explained by Itachi could talk about conquering, or maybe some clans Joining because they had no other choice.

You are correct. I assumed that clans joined the newly created Konoha willingly (I also assumed this was one of the many possible reasons that Madara "rebelled"), but you are correct that it is possible that the original clans could have been forced to join...except the Hyuuga, I can not see them being forced to join. (One of my great dreams/desires for the Madara battle, is that it will be a battle of the old generation - specifically the clan heads and Tsunade would ban together to fight and defeat Madara (Sasuke can deal the final blow), but I doubt that desire will ever come true .)

That being said, if a Joe Average Sharingan User were to use a clan technique sometime after Madara left, I doubt the other clans would have accepted it and this would have lead to a rebellion. After Madara (before Itachi learned from Madara), the Uchiha clan, at least how Itachi described it in Sasuke's flashback, seemed to be almost neutered in comparison to how Itachi portrays them in recent chapter. So, a fight between most of Konoha and the Uchiha (due to a copied clan jutsu) would have resulted in the destruction of the Uchiha clan.

As to the Sharingan copying, a clan jutsu...I agree that it is possible even likely, but I am still unsure. It is one of those things that I would require visual confirmation to completely believe (i.e. Madara using a Kage jutsu on Shikimaru). Otherwise I am about 50:50 on the issue. I do believe, if the Sharigan can not outright copy a hijutsu, then it can drastically decrease the learning time of that jutsu (i.e. see how the jutsu works, and then mimic it, effectively learning the jutsu).

btw, where was it said that Zabuza did not use seals to make his water clones (i.e. your assertion that Kakashi copied a sealless Water Clone no Jutsu). The only time we see him perform the technique (in Ch 13 when he sends out clones to fight Naruto and company) he does use a seal. We have not actually seen the Sharingan copy a sealless jutsu...yet.

---

edit: I always loved this line from the Data Book in regards to the Sharingan:

The more critical the situation is, the more they are able to harness their potential to the maximum.

You can not get more Saiyan than this line .

[mayhem]

chapter 386 - page 10 ..

And I quote " With his unstoppable power madara easily TOOK CONTROL OVER ever clan the uchiha ever encountered ect...

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by james3wk

As to the Sharingan copying, a clan jutsu...I agree that it is possible even likely, but I am still unsure. It is one of those things that I would require visual confirmation to completely believe (i.e. Madara using a Kage jutsu on Shikimaru). Otherwise I am about 50:50 on the issue. I do believe, if the Sharigan can not outright copy a hijutsu, then it can drastically decrease the learning time of that jutsu

btw, where was it said that Zabuza did not use seals to make his water clones (i.e. your assertion that Kakashi copied a sealless Water Clone no Jutsu). The only time we see him perform the technique (in Ch 13 when he sends out clones to fight Naruto and company) he does use a seal. We have not actually seen the Sharingan copy a sealless jutsu...yet.

Yes, just one seal (unless I’m forgetting a set of hand seals and I’m too lazy right now to look for it), basically comparing it to the same thing Shika does when performing a Jutsu, a single handseal.


This is more comparing it to what Ulqui is reffering to with the single handseal Shika or Ino uses for their Jutsu (While I do remember that in a recent chapter Shika changed Handseals for a Shadow Jutsu). So, Based on this, Mitsu Bushin falls into the same category. Either way, the Sharingan info in the Databook does reinforce the notion of copying any Jutsu regardless of Handseals, it really doesn’t give the sharingan any limitation over what can be copied, it only gives the limitations to reproducing the Jutsu itself.

If you are concerned, about how these clans have tried to kept (or have Kept) secret their Jutsu, I understand that concern, but on the other hand, Uchiha‘s could also be ethic enough not to meddle on those Jutsus.

Sharingan does analyzes and break down any Secret behind any Jutsu, so, parting from your point of view, that the Sharingan can’t copy these Jutsus, doesn’t really help too much about safe keeping the secrets of those Jutsus, because either way, Sharigan will break down any secret about the jutsu with just one glance.

And, this little debate could be moved to the Byakugan vs. sharingan thread, although I already exhausted my explanation.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Rurik

And, this little debate could be moved to the Byakugan vs. sharingan thread, although I already exhausted my explanation.

Too true. I remember having a discussion concerning this topic on the Sharingan v Byakugan thread, though it was more a discussion concerning whether or not the Sharingan could copy the Hyuuga techniques.

...but, you are correct, it is best to leave this topic in another thread.

[quebas]

Is there a chapter this week?

[Deidara_Bang]

Originally Posted by quebas

Is there a chapter this week?

there better be! wheres the spoiler at eh? i need some kinda naruto in my life!

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Deidara_Bang

there better be! wheres the spoiler at eh? i need some kinda naruto in my life!

Well...there should be an issue this week. I mean, there is a chapter of One Piece, so there should be a chapter of Naruto. Then the next two weeks Shounen Jump has of (for Golden Week). But, then again, maybe Kishimoto is pulling a Togashi, and will not be in until the middle of May .

[HikariYume]

Originally Posted by james3wk

Well...there should be an issue this week. I mean, there is a chapter of One Piece, so there should be a chapter of Naruto. Then the next two weeks Shounen Jump has of (for Golden Week). But, then again, maybe Kishimoto is pulling a Togashi, and will not be in until the middle of May .

No no say it aint soooo XD

If Kishi takes a break to the middle of may, I hope some sense gets into his head. Cus I've come to the conclusion that Kishi's been working too much. I mean...putting Sasuke on a 17947 pedestal above THE MAIN/TITLE CHARACTER is a whole new set of crazy...

[Sakuranbo]

All of this waiting is killing me. End already Golden Week, and give us 398.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by KurayamiLeader

All of this waiting is killing me. End already Golden Week, and give us 398.

LOL, Golden Week hasn't even started yet . April 29 is the first day (though May 1st is the original holiday), and it lasts until May 4th or 5th or therebouts.

btw, I picked this Avatar just for you KurayamiLeader ...

[Sakuranbo]

Originally Posted by james3wk

LOL, Golden Week hasn't even started yet . April 29 is the first day (though May 1st is the original holiday), and it lasts until May 4th or 5th or therebouts.

btw, I picked this Avatar just for you KurayamiLeader ...

Ah yes, I see the reference now. Very well put James

[tatami]

Originally Posted by HikariYume

No no say it aint soooo XD

If Kishi takes a break to the middle of may, I hope some sense gets into his head. Cus I've come to the conclusion that Kishi's been working too much. I mean...putting Sasuke on a 17947 pedestal above THE MAIN/TITLE CHARACTER is a whole new set of crazy...

in case you never noticed the only time naruto considered as powerfull as sasuke was on valley where they fight and sasuke won that battle too...sasuke was always stronger than naruto from the very start...meaning kishi was crazy from the start

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by james3wk

edit: I always loved this line from the Data Book in regards to the Sharingan:

You can not get more Saiyan than this line .

So...let's say one gets the Sharingan...and he decides to watch DBZ (they have video's and video recorders right? [chuunin exam]) and he/she looks at the episodes with Sharingan on. [let's take Freeza Saga]

Than he or she can train her sharingan?? Those were critical situations aswell..and the battles were 10x faster . I remember Goku catching a bullet with complete ease... I wonder...

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by tatami

in case you never noticed the only time naruto considered as powerfull as sasuke was on valley where they fight and sasuke won that battle too...sasuke was always stronger than naruto from the very start...meaning kishi was crazy from the start

Hmm thats debatable. When Naruto learnt the Rasengan, im sure he could have taken out Sasuke with it and a few clones at that point. It is true that with the "evolution" of his sharingan Sasuke seems to have left Naruto though.

Whats happend to the spoilers, they used to arrive on Mondays like clockwork whats going on? Also has it been explained how Madara escaped the black flames?

[tatami]

Originally Posted by Defiance

Hmm thats debatable. When Naruto learnt the Rasengan, im sure he could have taken out Sasuke with it and a few clones at that point. It is true that with the "evolution" of his sharingan Sasuke seems to have left Naruto though.

Whats happend to the spoilers, they used to arrive on Mondays like clockwork whats going on? Also has it been explained how Madara escaped the black flames?

actually stronger is a bit wrong definition , naruto is one of the strongest char in the series if you take the dictionary meaning of stronger...

let me say , sasuke always pwned naruto and will pwn always cuz naruto is the hero of the serie and in the end he will win but till the end sasuke is cooler , has more arsenal , has more brains , more effective jutsus , more insight and so...

[Goshin]

[quote=Defiance;1554000
Whats happend to the spoilers, they used to arrive on Mondays like clockwork whats going on? Also has it been explained how Madara escaped the black flames?[/quote]

1) I heard he is taking a break or something

2)by using his uchinaness of course

[ChojinLocke]

Here's a spoiler :

Spoiler for 398:

Spoiler for 398 spoiler:

サスケ「！？」 サスケ「何が真実だ！ イタチは一族を皆殺しにした 俺の… そしてあいつ自身の両親もろともなァ！！」
Sasuke: The truth?!? Itachi slaughtered the clan…and my parents!

マダラ「…フフッ」 "…フフッ"
Madara: *evil laugh*

サスケはマダラを睨み起き上がろうとするが、体がいうことをきかない 睨み起き上がろう
Sasuke glares at Madara and tries to stand up. His body won’t respond.

マダラ「その体で無理はするな 俺はお前の敵ではない」
Madara: Don’t push that body of yours too far. I’m not your enemy.

マダラ「…やはりイタチはおろか 里の者にも聞かされていなかったか…」
Madara: Just as I thought, Itachi was a fool. He kept his mouth shut about everything.

サスケ「アンタ…何を知ってる？　俺をどうする気だ！？」
Sasuke: You... what do you know? What do you want with me?

マダラ「少しは落ち着いたか　では今からうちは一族の真実を話そう…
Madara: Just settle down, will you? I’m about to tell you the truth about the Uchiha clan…

マダラの顔アップ
Closeup of Madara

マダラ「お前も知ってのとおり うちは一族は代々　木の葉隠れの里の 警備部隊として里の忍を　監視する立場にあった」
As you already know, for generations the Uchiha clan was the police force of Konoha. Their duty was to monitor the other ninja of the village.



マダラ「そんな我が一族を里の者達は 信頼し その真面目な姿勢に尊敬する者さえもいた」
The villagers put their faith and trust in us, and respected our diligent attitude

マダラ「だがそんなものは表の顔に過ぎん」 過ぎん"
…However, that was only our public image.

サスケ「？」
Sasuke: ?

マダラ「お前はまだ幼かったから知らないのも無理はない 一族だけの秘密は集会場の石版に書かれていた事だけではなかったのだ」
Madara: You were so young, it’s understandable that you weren’t aware of it. The scrolls you read in the clan’s meeting place weren’t our only secret.

サスケ驚いた表情
*Sasuke astonished*

マダラ「一族にとってはむしろこちらの計画の方が重要だった 真の目的と言ってもいい 警備部隊として代々　里の治安を守ってきたのもこの真の目的を　遂行しやすくする為だ」 ."
Madara: It was important that everyone saw the clan this way. But it’s okay to tell you the true purpose now. We acted as police force and village peacekeepers because it helped us to achieve this true purpose…

サスケ「まさか！」
Sasuke: Impossible!

Sounds interesting

Edit : i guess we are waiting for a translation on this one .. if you guys can translate:

Spoiler for 398 maybe real:

マダラ「分かるか？」「イタチがお前の眼に天照を仕込んだか？」「お前とオレをどうしても引き 合わせたくな かったからだ」
その後イタチの真実を知るものは…と一通り話す
するとサスケの表情が変わる
サスケ「何いってんだコイツ？」「真実だと？」
マダラ「思い出せ」「お前の優しかった兄を」 "思い出せ" 優しかった"
回想みたいのが少し入りそのまま気を失うサスケ
目覚めると拘束されていた
そしてマダラが木の葉からの任務だと教える(話の流れから木の葉を抜けるのも任務の内か？)
マダラ「それが真実への入り口だ」「イタチの話をするには木の葉創立の時代に話をさかのぼらな ければならな い」

マダラ「イタチは犠牲になったのだ」「そもそも木の葉隠れには生まれた時から問題がある。それ がイタチの生 きざまを決めた」「少し長い話になるが話すことはすべて真実だ」 .生きざま
信用出来ないと、証拠を出せとサスケは言うが最後は「話せ」と言う

回想と言うか思いで話のような物に突入

その時代の戦争の仕方を話自分の話をするマダラ
ちなみに初代火影は千手一族と言う木を使う一族 火影
そして最後にマダラが初代を忍の頂点であり憧れだったと話す

以上
わかりずらくごめんなさい

Edit 2:

Spoiler for himajin??:

Source:2ch
Credits: Himajin

Spoiler for another one i guess..or was it the translation?:

Spoiler for must be the real deal if its himajin:

Spoiler for ok here goes...:

Tobi stands in front of Sasuke.
Tobi: You can ask whatever you want, Sasuke. Be certain that I'll answer every question, solve all your doubts...
Sasuke shakes his head.
Tobi: Well then. If you don't make questions I'll start.

Tobi: As you know, your brother was one of my students. A talented one I must say...I kept my eye on him sice he started the academy. I waited for someone like him all my existence...
Sasuke coughs a little blood.
Tobi: Lay down Sasuke, you need to rest.
Sasuke:...
Tobi: Well, I knew he had talent, very much talent. I decided to develop his power, but to reach it he needed the extreme sacrifice.
Sasuke: Killing his closest friend?
Tobi: Exact. Now...it's a little long to explain it by words. Let me show you some of my memories.
The sharingan under the mask starts rotating fast...
Sasuke is now looking at Tobi with a young guy.
Tobi: Now boy, you completed the training . I've done everything that I could for you. Now all depends on you. You know what must be done, right?
Boy:Yes sensei.
Sasuke: Is this......genjutsu?!
Tobi stands behind him.
Tobi: Yes, I'm showing you the most important steps in Itachi's life. All starts here with little Shisui.
Sasuke: Shisui!!? Itachi's best friend!

The illusion goes on. Tobi now is facing a young Itachi.
Tobi: Well done Itachi. Now you must complete the last step.
Itachi nods.
Tobi: and now Sasuke, the most important.
Itachi and Shisui are walking at night in the forest.
Itachi: You wanted to see me? Shisui-san?
Shisui: I must show you one thing. Come, this way.
They walk a little more. Then stop in front of the hideout Naka near to the river Naka.
Itachi: Now what?
Shisui: Forgive me Itachi..
Itachi activates the sharingan
Shisui disappears and pierces Itachi with his kunai.
Itachi: You...really..?
Shisui looks at Itachi. He is no bleeding.
Shisui: Replacement...
Itachi appears behind him.
Itachi: What do you think you are doing?
Shisui: I'll kill you Itachi! It must be done, to achieve the ultimate power!!
Itachi: It...you...you have been training with Madara too!
Shisui: What? You know about him? He never said me...But it doesen't matter. He gave me a test and I'll complete it!
Itachi: Do you really want to follow his advice? You really intend to kill me for the superior sharingan?!
Shisui:....yes..I will.
Itachi: I don't want to hurt you, but if you force me to defence I will kill you.
Shisui: Katon! Ryuuka no jutsu!
Itachi avoids it.
Itachi: Kage bushin no jutsu
10 clones appear.
Clones: Katon! Housenka no jutsu
Shisui uses his body flicker but the real Itachi manages to catch him and they both fall into the river strangling each other.
Itachi: Shisui stop it...
Shisui is losing his senses. The water calms.
Sasuke:....
Someone jumps out of water. It's Itachi with Mangekyou sharingan.
Tobi: Good Itachi. After all you were stronger than Shisui. Now I can tell you all about my true plan! For an even greater power!!
Next time: the sorrow of that day.

[tatami]

kishi is attending the drag races so no more naruto

[Goshin]

the first translated spoiler is fact on the basis that that is what i tought would happen and none of my predictions have come true

the second one who claims to be himajin is just ridiculous. Ryuuka no Jutsu??? is Ryuuka what they called ichigo in co when they invated ss?? ryoka i think anyways I also had a feeling that shinshui was evil so that can't be true cause it would prove me right

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Unbelievable....just when i thought the Uchiha series were about to end...it gets extended.
The revenge is over but the story continues. 1-396 [the revenge] 397-650 [the purpose of the Uchiha's] 651-1000 [The Uchiha's were children of god] 1001-? [Naruto starts]

But atleast we'll see what happened that day...