EMDAS 2011 - February (Origins) Competition Page

[Hiroi Sekai]

Originally Posted by felix

@lordshadowisle

*reads first few paragraphs*

Woohoo, this is great already!

Hope you don't mind if I treat this as a sort of proofread + critique. Bear in mind these are just suggestions, please make sure to ignore half the nonsense I say, kk?


Somehow it seems off. The comma is too weak in this case. It's not really getting the feeling, which I'm deducing I should have been getting from reading ahead, hehe.

How about

"Intense pain. Chest area."

or

"Intense pain— chest area."

You also don't need to be so reserved with exclamation marks. Yes, you should use them very very rarely, if they are to have any effect; but this is a good case to use them. So

"Intense pain— chest area!"

This is one of the few cases where it makes sense to use a semicolon instead of a comma, a mdash is also better in my opnion (hold Alt and then press 0,1,5,1).

What's eye level? Maybe

"Firing his handgun with one hand. No aim. Just random shots."

or to keep it more chaotic.

"Firing his handgun with one hand; no aim… just random shots."

Don't be afraid to make sentences with say no verb and so on. You can use the period for long pauses, like in the former example. Since this is a monologue its all good.

Shouldn't you use the uncapitalized version, or is it a nickname?

"while still being" made the sentence a little clunky when I read it, how about

"Bulletproof armor, procured from military surplus and manually thinned to decrease physical burden, yet still capable of stopping small-arms fire."

This one might need more work though; on the first half.


Dunno about the second part on the last one, but probably needs pruning or rephrasing, to make it flow better with the text before it.

Plot hole. You said earlier in the story, after the boss-man was changed the police were now unresponsive. So, what happened to this unit? Also, it's a little forced, it can be toned down while keeping to the idea. I mean would the police support a vigilante? probably not. It could probably be a "response protocol" or something along those lines.

A ellipsis … or colon : would be better I think. Comma might work too.

ps. story is great, gj

I agree, great story! Quite mysterious and captivating, to say the least.

Also, a solid critiquing from you, felix. It's always great to inform one of possible plot holes and spots that can be cleaned up; I'd be a little cautious of pointing out personal punctuation and major word changes though, as we end up deviating from the original intention of a section. Just ranting here, don't mind me.

My short critique: I agree with felix on the slightly clunky parts that can be cleaned up, but the rest was quite good. I personally think the punctuation should be edited to your preference; a character can have special traits that allows them to emphasize differently. Sorry to use your example here, felix: ^^

"Intense pain, chest area." The comma sums up the scenario well, as the original sentence would read something like: "There was intense pain in my chest area."

"Intense pain. Chest area." The monologuing takes a sudden break as we're faced with two fragmented sentences. If this was a scenario in a movie trailer I could see it, but in a monologue I can't really see it working. Read the previous version and this one as if you were monologuing yourself. Be sure to take the short pause for the one with the 2 period markings.

"Intense pain- chest area!" Hell, I would have said go with this one if it wasn't a monologue. I'd argue against my other half that this version would be quite accurate with what the character was thinking, but in storytelling where one is monologuing, the lack of excitement in the speech gives it that much more strength. Imagine a monologue where one is talking in a monotone voice: "I woke up. Everything was white, had I died? Ow, intense pain!"

Nonetheless, make edits and heed felix's suggestions well; there were a lot of good points made. Just be careful not to fall into the agreement loop. ^^

Great story, and I can't wait to see the absolute final product

[felix]

Yes, as papermario mentioned, don't take my punctuation suggestions too seriously. When writing stories and such, unlike when doing technical papers, correct grammar is less important, since the writing is more free form. Punctuation can help, but no reason to stray from your own style.

[lordshadowisle]

Thanks everyone for your comments! I was expecting general comments and feedback but the proofread's good too

I'll decide what to do with the punctuation later. For now I'll just fix the plot spots and rework some of the phrasing.

The next draft won't be up anytime soon. I'll need to look and comment on the other entries before working much more on the draft first !

[shelter]

I noticed no one's posted poetry yet. So let me spoil the market.

It's called Run with Me:

Spoiler for Run with Me (Draft 1):

Draft 1 (08.02.11)

First, a footfall: our steps move
brimming with afternoon sun.
I watch while you stretch the fabric folds
of your muscles into anticipation –
a form tense,
wearable, sleeveless.

Then: lazy sunshine, its loose glare,
wraps its last wayward fingers around the flush of your cheek.

After you, please:
you let our strides burst into pace
like frames
for slower runners in still life: shrinking, receding –
The want for air moves us – a common desire,
pulses loaded with adrenaline.

You know: I’m only faster with you around,
when you’re
a blur of jersey like a flag –
a bullet off the lines. One that hits
me here: in the deep crease of my panting soul
till I have you run with me,

until the hour crickets whistle
for us to slow down, for your burning feet
to bury themselves in silence,
your footfalls finally stilled.

And where floodlights cast you:
luminous, a halo of sweat,
the only thing aglow on the dark track,
as evening overtakes us.

According to the official word count programme, I have 157 words.

And if it isn't obvious enough: yes, I like to run.

[felix]

Originally Posted by shelter

According to the official word count programme, I have 157 words.

Actually that javascript is not the official do-thingie.

I just used it as a test, everyone seems to have followed suit…
I'll bring it up in the other thread, so we can have a "official one".

[Hiroi Sekai]

Originally Posted by shelter

I noticed no one's posted poetry yet. So let me spoil the market.

It's called Run with Me:

Spoiler for Run with Me (Draft 1):

Draft 1 (08.02.11)

First, a footfall: our steps move
brimming with afternoon sun.
I watch while you stretch the fabric folds
of your muscles into anticipation –
a form tense,
wearable, sleeveless.

Then: lazy sunshine, its loose glare,
wraps its last wayward fingers around the flush of your cheek.

After you, please:
you let our strides burst into pace
like frames
for slower runners in still life: shrinking, receding –
The want for air moves us – a common desire,
pulses loaded with adrenaline.

You know: I’m only faster with you around,
when you’re
a blur of jersey like a flag –
a bullet off the lines. One that hits
me here: in the deep crease of my panting soul
till I have you run with me,

until the hour crickets whistle
for us to slow down, for your burning feet
to bury themselves in silence,
your footfalls finally stilled.

And where floodlights cast you:
luminous, a halo of sweat,
the only thing aglow on the dark track,
as evening overtakes us.

According to the official word count programme, I have 157 words.

And if it isn't obvious enough: yes, I like to run.

Certainly keeps a steady pace and applies well to the theme. A good use of poetry and you'd probably have my vote.

[lordshadowisle]

@wassupimviet

I liked the third and fourth acts of your story. The first act was ok, but generally the second act may need work.

If I'm guessing correctly your work is fanfiction for a series I unfortunately know nothing about. Therefore the care should be taken when using specific terms like "Megadeus" and "Big O", because readers may not know what they are. I think you did a bit well there, I was able to infer (hopefully not wrongly ) that these are some form of weapon. You could probably provide more hints to provide context or discard such references though, because ultimately these provide small nagging questions that may distract readers from the story.

I'm also wondering about the role of the character Norman. He doesn't seem to serve much purpose in the story. Perhaps he can be removed from the story, since space is tight and you'll probably want the readers to focus more on the main characters.

There's still a lot of time, so good luck with the edits!

[shelter]

Originally Posted by papermario13689

Certainly keeps a steady pace and applies well to the theme. A good use of poetry and you'd probably have my vote.

Thanks. Is there anything I'll need to change for the final revision? Or anything that you found out of place?

(I've grown up learning that writing a too-good first draft isn't a good thing. So your comment gets me worried )

[felix]

@shelter, well since you put it that way I guess there's no reason to hold back. You know what they say: careful what you wish for.

The colon creates too much of a pause IMO. It also creates a expectation for a list, which may be unnecessary since you don't really give a list there. While I see where you're going with the idea, the principle may be less poetic and more technical, and so not really work too well.

of your muscles into anticipation –

I'm not really catching the purpose of the en dash there. This may be just because I'm not familiar how to read that. As far as I know a en dash is only used to connect a range such as 1970–1980 or Germany–France railroad, etc. Did you mean to use a em dash? ie. —

You know: I’m only faster with you around,
when you’re
a blur of jersey like a flag –

Why is that 2nd verse orphaned? I don't feel it's really saying anything by itself. Perhaps it could use some more powerful wording to make it stand out. Or, the linebreak could simply be replaced by a modest comma

a form tense,
wearable, sleeveless.

Hard to follow the rhyme, maybe drop the comma in the second verse; or rephrase it. I'm not really getting the image you're trying to associate with "wearable, sleeveless."

a bullet off the lines. One that hits
me here: in the deep crease of my panting soul

The "me" there is forced, especially with the colon afterwards. It makes it less like a rhyme and more like very choked speech.

And where floodlights cast you:
luminous, a halo of sweat,
the only thing aglow on the dark track,
as evening overtakes us

This one is very good, and illustrates overarching problem in the others. First of all, there's no need to write "perfect" poems, it's getting the feeling across that counts. In a lot of the verses you seem to try too hard to explain things; this is not necessary, its fine to leave things in ambiguity. Secondly, in general you want to value every line of the poem. Take the example snippet, you can change them around they still project the same image, since they are all very good lines (well that "And" might get in the way, but no biggie).

From the principle perspective, I think you could have burned though a lot more senses with it in the same space. I feel like you're committing to the visual spectrum a little too heavily, hence why the lines that reflect other senses would seem to stand out like gems.

Lastly there are a few tongue twisting bumps you can smooth out. But I'll leave it to you to find them.

[Hiroi Sekai]

You're absolutely right, shelter. It's never good to just go with the first draft, and felix once again did one fine job of laying out a detailed critique. I'll once again express my views on the criticism and add my own bits.

The em dash would certainly work better, but since we're being sticklers for perfection, I can see why the en dash was used. I often do this too, since many forums read the two as the same.

A comma or semicolon would work a little better than double colons (which usually start a list or break into a completely different topic), as felix mentioned. I'm also wondering if that orphaned 2nd verse is intentional or not, it does look a little out of place.

I can't agree with the rhyme breaks. If you read it carefully, there's no distinct rhyme scene put in place; I'm pretty sure it was intended to be free verse. I don't know which manner you chose to use the word "rhyme", because there could have been multiple uses. Stop me if I'm speculating incorrectly.

In the short amount of text I feel you really got your point across. There certainly is always room for improvement but if you focus too hard on that you might lose the well-constructed poem you have now. Best of luck in your editing.

[WordShaker]

Originally Posted by lordshadowisle

@wassupimviet

Aha, thanks for the comment and critique! Much appreciated.

Yeah, I labored under the impression that it was still a fanfic competition; by the time I figured it out, I was already about done. So, I said, "Ah, to hell with it!" and put on my hot-blooded-writing glasses to finish it up. Alas, this means that the references are a little stuck in there, so some of your suggestions might not work out.

It's a fanfic of a somewhat aged anime (2000ish, if I recall) called Big O. I heartily recommend that you give it a shot.

[shelter]

Originally Posted by felix

The colon creates too much of a pause IMO. It also creates a expectation for a list, which may be unnecessary since you don't really give a list there.

Technical? Poetic? I like to use colons, partly because they reflect the thought process. If I made you pause with a colon, then I'm happy. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Originally Posted by felix

I'm not really catching the purpose of the en dash there. This may be just because I'm not familiar how to read that. As far as I know a en dash is only used to connect a range such as 1970–1980 or Germany–France railroad, etc. Did you mean to use a em dash? ie. —

Heh. If you didn't point this out, I wouldn't have known. I treat all dashes as the same — as continuations of the same idea — as bringing the idea forward without having to resort to long stream of consciousness-like language. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll be careful with punctuation.

Originally Posted by felix

From the principle perspective, I think you could have burned though a lot more senses with it in the same space. I feel like you're committing to the visual spectrum a little too heavily, hence why the lines that reflect other senses would seem to stand out like gems.

I had to write this all from memory. So naturally the visual aspect's stronger. I wanted to convey the idea that running begins physically, but ends visually (i.e your body gets sharper the more you exercise). But it was a long shot. Not every poem is a microcosm of every single sensation, and it probably meant something different to you.

As for the remaining points, thanks for the advice. I don't really bother too much with form when writing poetry because I believe poetry is raw thought. But, yes, I hear you: it can be cleaned up a bit.

Originally Posted by papermario13689

I can't agree with the rhyme breaks. If you read it carefully, there's no distinct rhyme scene put in place; I'm pretty sure it was intended to be free verse. I don't know which manner you chose to use the word "rhyme", because there could have been multiple uses. Stop me if I'm speculating incorrectly.

It wasn't meant to rhyme actually, so any rhyming or even rhythm is intentional. Structurally, perhaps there needs to be some kind of order. I can work on that.

Don't worry about critique. I'd rather you guys whack me left right and centre instead of giving me a sentence of comment. It gives me an incentive to rewrite. Many of the fanfiction forums on Animesuki lack this kind of critical analysis. So, thanks again

[Hiroi Sekai]

A little more barren than I had hoped - there's still 3 good days to enter something; I may have to lower this month's voting limit to 1 if there aren't enough entries.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by papermario13689

A little more barren than I had hoped - there's still 3 good days to enter something; I may have to lower this month's voting limit to 1 if there aren't enough entries.

Well the competition itself is still brand new, but as more and more people are grown aware and used to this competition, it might grow in popularity as well Sp we might have to take things slowly with 1 vote.

[PreSage]

Nice idea you have here, PM. I'd love to enter but school's just too busy at the moment.

On another note, I find it interesting that you're using capital letters to emphasize words and not italics. I noticed that italics/bold/etc are dissuaded from use in your rules. Is it because such formats are hard to read on the forum? I'm curious because correct written format actually dissuades the use of capital letters; instead, emphasis and conveyance of emotions to individual words are often done through italics - at least in a novelia.

[Hiroi Sekai]

Originally Posted by PreSage

Nice idea you have here, PM. I'd love to enter but school's just too busy at the moment.

On another note, I find it interesting that you're using capital letters to emphasize words and not italics. I noticed that italics/bold/etc are dissuaded from use in your rules. Is it because such formats are hard to read on the forum? I'm curious because correct written format actually dissuades the use of capital letters; instead, emphasis and conveyance of emotions to individual words are often done through italics - at least in a novelia.

I believe the reason was to create a basic idea of equality; one who knows how to use italics correctly would have a much more dynamic entry than one who didn't. Of course, leaving out expressions completely would ruin the purpose of writing, so in the proposition thread I believe we agreed on capitals.

Just as a note, all my other compositions outside the competition use many varieties of expressive punctuation.

[felix]

@PreSage capital letters are fairly good way to express yelling. Arguably we could also use things like a double exclamation mark (!!), but this is a question of the authors preference. This is actually proper since we're talking short stories; we could actually write intentional-ungrammatical and get away with it. Also, I write a lot of technical papers, which do require proper punctuation and such, and frankly I find it really hard to recall if I ever use italics, ever. The only situations that comes to mind is when either it is required by the style specification (such as "Abstract must be 9pt, indented, and in italics", etc) or I need to take a word out of context to avoid the person reading it as a extension to the sentence rather then a compound term — this happens maybe once in a blue moon.

If you're somehow basing your assessments on forum posts, then don't. Forum posts are completely incompetent at even splitting anything into the basic section/paragraph (we only really have the possibility of sections), the people writing are also not necessarily writing for readability mind you, or abiding by some standard.

[lordshadowisle]

Originally Posted by papermario13689

I believe the reason was to create a basic idea of equality; one who knows how to use italics correctly would have a much more dynamic entry than one who didn't. Of course, leaving out expressions completely would ruin the purpose of writing, so in the proposition thread I believe we agreed on capitals.

Just as a note, all my other compositions outside the competition use many varieties of expressive punctuation.

The rule against italics seems like a strange and unnecessary restriction. To me (perhaps that's where the problem lies ?) choice of emphasis is as organic to writing as word or punctuation choice is.

Yes, an entry with good use of italics is more dynamic than the same entry without. It's also a better entry. In my view (where emphasis is part of writing) saying that the use of italics is unfair seems about equal to saying that using a larger vocabulary is unfair and hence we should restrict the vocab used.

Also, capitals isn't a good compromise or replacement; there are plenty of situations where one fits but the other doesn't (though I'm tempted to try swapping the two to see what havoc erupts).

Hence, I feel that it's better to let people do whatever they want with italics and bold. Better to let them get it wrong and receive feedback than to miss out altogether.

Of course if lots of crazy entries appear then....

<hr>
I'll continue this in the sticky.

[felix]

If the contest would allow italics, then you would then have people saying "oh, why aren't different fonts allowed?" or "oh, why aren't different colors allowed?" or "oh why can't I write everything in size 7?". The consensus in the other discussion was: it's not necessary for writing, and anything you can do with italics you can do with better wording or just plaintext. We don't want a contest where someone who is just cute with formatting gets a advantage from it. Think along the lines of a poem that's written and formatted more like a graphic then an actual poem; like say it looks like a poster (for example) — this is not a graphic contest.

[zebra]

Alright, I'm not a native speaker, so don't expect any grammar corrections or suggestions for better wording. Just a heads up I also skipped most of the other comments for now, because I wanted to stay neutral until I read the entries myself. So sorry if I just repeat what has been said already.

But here my impressions and interpretations on the submitted drafts for now:

On papermario's submission:

Spoiler for rant:

Adam and Eve ... a theme used a million times. Your take on them still has something unique about it.

We don't hear a word from God until the very last line. Everything else are either a verse of the bible or Adam's decisions. That's an interesting choice imo. Adam isn't forbidden from eating an apple until the end, yet he feels pain from coming near. While the 'original' version describes Eden as a paradise, your Adam is already full of despair before fixing his fragmanted memory. Instead of having Adam and Eve be innocent and ignorant, they simply forgot all of it.
From the title and the whole story I kinda think it's actually Adam II. An Adam that already lived and experienced life as a normal human, in the normal world. He does faintly remember having a family (two sons, 'subtle' hint ;D). But he was left after all of Humanity perished and now is the start of humanity. Just that it's the second start and instead of being ignorant of the world, he simply forgot. Thus he feels despair and bitter about being left in Eden.

Finally he eats the apple and remebers everything. The good and evil just the same, only to fall in a coma. I'm not entirely sure about the end to be honest. I'd actually say Eve was taken from him as punishment for eating the apple, but he's clutching the bible verse from the beginning, suggesting he starts anew. This time we see the warning from god.

I might read to much into it, but stories are there to be interpreted differently anyway: I kind of took this story as a representation of the neverending cycle of humanity. Even when we're born we still carry the burden of the past and it's just a matter of time we shed our ignorance and innocence. We always thrieve to know everything and thus always stumble upon the truth of the good and evil. History repeats itself, just as our mistakes. It doesn't matter if we get a warning or feel it is wrong, our origin story stays the same even if we start over.

The story is really out there and captures the feeling of a myth. I'm sure there are many ways to interpret it.
But it's one of these stories that start to become good if you take the time to think aout it. I really like that it made me think, but I also believe it's one of the stories that have a hard time to invoke that in everyone.

I like the style. Simple, but to the point. There are few descriptions, but they're not necessary here.

On lordshadowisle's submission:

Spoiler for rant:

And they callend him BATMAN VIGILANTE!
Well it is the origin story of a hero after all. I still can't help but see a lot of similarities to many big and well known heroes that exist already. The monologue style didn't help that as it's often used in that kind of story, too.
But that's my only gripe with the story, if it's a gripe at all.

I like how you throw the readers into the middle of the action. I personally got sucked into it immediately. The style really is something!
We get one detail after another and everything mentioned gets explained later. Maybe there is too much explanation and some parts would work better if they were shorter and left more ambigious, but that's a question of preference and taste, I guess.

I enjoyed reading this one. Easy to read and a great flow. I have a knack for gritty stories like that anyway My favorite super hero is Batman after all So of course I find similarities ... specially since it's a normal guy who just uses his assets to fight crime, which is something I always like more than the simple "he has super powers".

On shelter's submission:

Spoiler for rant:

Whoo, poetry!
I'll be honest - I'm not good with it. Specially in English, but let's give it a try:
I like it. It gives off the feeling of summer, warmth and closeness. But also seems very dynamic and like moments we see for a split second, but seem a lot longer in our mind; treasuring the details. Your verses create very vivid images in my mind and make me relate to the scenes, even so I'm not a big athlete.
I really like that, great entry imo! You have a great eye for capturing details.

(No reflecting on the form and verse aspect, sorry, I suck at that D: Can only say I didn't find a mistake.)

On felix' submission:

Spoiler for rant:

I don't like to read script-like texts in general. May it be Goethe or Shakespeare; or the prologue of a mystery story It's a personal preference, but the bolded names in the dialogues irked me. I would have liked it without them, even so your piece is very dialogue heavy. You made it perfectly clear who was talking and doing something the whole time after all - without taking the names in consideration. It's not criticism; I'm sure others liked it to avoid confusion.
You also use present tense because of the script-like style.

I think it's an interesting choice to have a post-apocalypse setting but not use it at all in the first chapter. Instead you introduce us to the protagonist in a very off handed manner. It all looks like an innocent school-ramantic-comedy that happens to be in a post-apocalyptic world; and then you introduce us to the murders which weren't expected at all ... at least by me . I really liked that.

Even so you immediatly get the feeling there's something wrong with Mao and the teacher, I also wonder why Rei let the folders out in the open. Was it on purpose to make Kou ask about the murders, or was he that stupid for the sake of the plot?
I do like the little tidbit about Mao being the only one willing to sit in the sun, which is certainly a subtle hint and foreshadowing that there's something about her.

However, the story seems to have a lot of potential and it could go in many directions, which is always good. But I feel the prologue lacks some spice and conclusion - specially as an entry in the contest. While Kou's essay is an easy to understand introduction of his character, we're only informed about what he did and where he comes from (very roughly at that, which is good actually), but the things we actually see him do are very few. Hard to do with the word limit, but we don't need to know everything about him yet. It's just hard for me to picture him as a character - only traits I picked up are 'snotty brat' uptil now. Mao's characterization is actually more detailed.
You did it well with her - we first hear her whisper and a little later Kou explains that she never speaks with high volume. That's a really nice detail, since that's her first and only line.

Sorry, if it has been mentioned yet, but some corrections maybe:

Spoiler:

[...]I just have no luck." Kouta sighted

Should it be "sighed"?

"Haha— I'm just jocking kid." the teacher laughed

Joking?

"Um— aside from the fact she has excellent grades in PE,

Shouldn't it be "aside from the fact that she"?

I'm also pretty certain you're not following the english punctuation here and there, but it's something I always screw up myself, so I won't attempt to correct it.
I get a lot of corrections when I write something in English, so don't just trust me on those XD

Also out of curiosity: what is a "kansai-ben"? I'd guess some sort of comedy skit from context (it doesn't hinder the understanding at all, just curious).

On wassupimviet's submmission:

Spoiler for rant:

Initial reaction: Confusion, including a tilted head.

I had to re-read the first paragraph to understand the narrator is Dorothy I wasn't sure until then. That could also be a fail on my part
The rest of the confusion was the good kind of confusion, though!
Is this an historical piece?
Are they some sort of royalty?
Oh, she's a robot :O

I personally like if a story makes me guess around while I read. The characters confused me somewhat however. I like to be thrown into the middle of things but I wasn't sure who was who until I read thrugh the story a second time.
But I really enjoyed your little piece in the second round. It reads easily then.

Your style reminds me of an author, but I can't put my finger on it. I mean that as a compliment, I really like your style here. It really emphasizes the story and its setting. The whole thing begins sullen, but in the end it's uplifting and inspirating.
The end was really nice, with the handwave of origin and the callback: “You’re a louse, Roger Smith.”

I like that you only crack superficially on the world and seemingly the characters, too - it goes really well with the message:
It doesn't matter where we come from, only where we go to and what we decide to do.

It's what I drew from the story at least

Beautiful. Might be my favorite entry till now.

I linked to the specific entries I read, in case I missed a newer version.
The quality of the entries is really good! Praise to all of you :3