2012-10-14, 14:01 | Link #861 | ||
Me at work
|
Quote:
Quote:
Though yes if she doesn't interfere the situation is over,that doesn't make the results acceptable because not everyone finds paralyzing rape victims to be acceptable.
__________________
|
||
2012-10-14, 14:09 | Link #862 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
Quote:
As for the results being acceptable or not... well true that's up for debate. I guess that all depends on how accurate the Psycho Pass really is.
__________________
|
|
2012-10-14, 14:25 | Link #863 |
Bag Giver
Join Date: Jan 2012
|
I had the impression that there are actually two separate assessments this episode:
1. an immediate assessment based on readers from scanners/dominators. This reading is used to determine the level of force the police can use. 2. an in depth assessment from the Sibyl system that determines how effective therapy on the latent criminal would be and thus his final punishment. Recall what Ginoza told Akane while they were in the tent: They don't need to wait for the Sibyl's judgment. They can just go in. Soon after, the paddy wagon arrived with dominators. Recall how the dominator was able to produce an immediate reading from a drunk in the street, and recall how quickly it found the woman to be a valid target for lethal force. The great difference between how long it took for a Sibyl judgment to arrive for the rapist and for the woman suggests two different systems of analysis. One could argue that the assessment for the woman was faster because she had a dominator pointed at her. However, this is inconsistent with Ginoza's suggestion that they could wait for the Sibyl judgment--without finding the rapist. As for being allowed to kill without a final judgment, this is perfectly consistent with real world police practice: The police are allowed to use lethal force without a verdict, an indictment, or even an arrest warrant under the correct emergency circumstances.
__________________
|
2012-10-14, 14:26 | Link #864 | |
Nympholept
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wonderland.
Age: 31
|
Actually, I totally agree with what MartianMage said. There's no actual concrete proof that the system is really as "flawed" as it seemed to be. All the arguments presented so far that defend that statement are based on a mentally unstable criminal's complaints, a completely broken woman's hysterical outbursts and a chaotic chain of events caused by a rookie's unneeded intervention.
Quote:
For some reasons, this part looks like it can be used to counter the "There's no need to kill her since it's just temporary, stuffs" or the "Even if she can kill us at any moment in that state we just need to paralyse her when she starts to take action" theory too. Since by considering context, one can see that woman was about to pull off a Kamikaze ... makes you wonder what would have happened if Akane failed to calm her down or what she would have done after waking up (supposing they paralysed her in that state)
__________________
|
|
2012-10-14, 14:44 | Link #865 | |||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
For that matter, I have problems seeing how unnecessarily tasing the unarmed, non-aggressive victim is acceptable. |
|||||
2012-10-14, 14:44 | Link #866 | ||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Quote:
Really, that's just plain as day: the inherent problem is the system and individuals know that well they are doomed if they go past a certain treshold, to which doesn't seem to be controllable by oneself, except with devices. And technically, even if Akane failed to calm her, the very problem was her partners walking around with their boomstick ready to cap her out.
__________________
|
||
2012-10-14, 14:59 | Link #867 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
@Anh_Minh
Yes, it does matter. All that I'm saying is maybe the system is not as flawed as you make it to be. Perhaps it really is acceptable. You expect them to put all possible course of action in the gun? That's why the first point matters. Acceptable for the people in this particular story. Again if the system was as flawed as you're claiming it to be then why do you think it was passed? And I'll just bring up the first point again. @Klashikari What if the Psycho Pass reading on the victim is actually very accurate? What if she's not so mentally stable to begin with? The point here is that the initial recommendation to paralyze the victim and give her treatment is a pretty acceptable course of action.
__________________
|
2012-10-14, 15:03 | Link #868 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
|
Quote:
1) the victim was not planning to do anything until she got cornered (she was still treated as a criminal by the system, even before she fell down and reached the tanks with the lighter). 2) Akane could reason her, and lower her psycho pass level to "paralyzer mode". These 2 points are self evident the system is moment based, with little to absolutely no concern for circumstances or even "actual" reading of the individual thoughts and psyche. And no, the initial recommendation wasn't to paralyze the victim to treat her: it was to paralyze a "latent criminal" and use the therapy afterwards, the very same way they had to deal with the abducting rapist. Which means the system makes -no- distinction. And the system did consider the victim as "not worthy to live", by the enforcer layman terms, which translated into lethal mode. Therefore, simply because she was the victim who got shocked too much, she -deserved to die like the criminal who abducted her-, and that's without any redemption possible, which was proved otherwise by Akane's actions. No matter how you look at it, the system is anything but accurate.
__________________
|
|
2012-10-14, 15:06 | Link #869 | ||||
Nympholept
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wonderland.
Age: 31
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What? if she failed to calm her down she'd have burned herself and Kogami down! But if you were talking about when she first time tried to do it (when she was around 162), then again what about it? At that time the system didn't allow her to be killed so it's not a problem.
__________________
|
||||
2012-10-14, 15:08 | Link #870 |
formerly ogon bat
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Mexico
Age: 53
|
There is one thing no one so far has talked about. Between the perp failed arrest and the moment he took a hostage he did two things, he got some potent drug that made him kind of a batman/captain america in physical fitness and he got a hue scanner. This last bit is IMO very important because those should be illegal and even those who are legal no doubt are tailored to only function with one specific person (whom cannot read his own hue with it). If people could easily read their exact hue level they will no doubt do the same thing (or something worse) the perp did, his life as a human being was over and he could not accept a life of slavery (or inside some mental seclusion facility) he could go out with a bang. But this scanner he got could read anyone's hue level, so not only his level increased but also his kidnapper level as a consequence. So either there is a black market for this things (unlikely) or some people outside the government have access to these technology and give sell them to these guys to keep the government resources tied to hunting these small (but none the less dangerous) fries.
|
2012-10-14, 15:13 | Link #871 | ||
Nympholept
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wonderland.
Age: 31
|
My apologies, I forgot this one
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
2012-10-14, 15:14 | Link #872 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Quote:
And no, the enforcers did not offer the therapy whatsoever: they immediately pointed the gun with paralyzer mode on her, without even suggesting the therapy and whatnot, and the series implies heavily the therapy is -not- a cake walk. So your point doesn't stand at all: the very moment you menace a victim, under the premise they are as dangerous as latent criminal despite they did nothing wrong, is the proof of the very flaw of the system: it does not set apart victims and criminals, and the former can be punished because they were involved. Quote:
The simple knowledge of such system that will also punish you despite being the victim is by no means a laughing matter: no matter what you do, if your psycho pass is too high, you are just as bad as the criminal. Therefore, the very existence of the system is a source of stress and fear that can lead to punishment for the innocent as well, which is not supposed to be, but still used that way.
__________________
|
|||
2012-10-14, 15:19 | Link #873 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
Quote:
2. And this is why I was saying that we're not sure if they are forced to follow the gun's intructions. The gun can only give interpretation of the readings it currently has. It's not an almighty judge on the spot tool. And as Graveyard Duck has pointed out. There are 2 judgement systems. The gun can only give quick assessments. Sibyl issues absolute judgement. The moment the criminal is found out to be resistant to the paralyzer Sibyl issued that the criminal is no longer needed in the world. Did Sibyl issue the same for the victim? No, it didn't. And this is where the question of "are they forced to follow the gun's recommendations" comes in. And at this point does it really matter if they use the same tag for her? From what I can tell criminal or not. If you have a dangerous Psycho Pass reading you're supposed to take therapy. The initial reading on the victim was to paralyze. The victim did not get a Sibyl oracle/judgement. The gun can only give recommendations on what it reads.
__________________
|
|
2012-10-14, 15:25 | Link #874 |
formerly ogon bat
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Mexico
Age: 53
|
What do you mean? In the present most Japanese "medicate" themselves unhealthy doses of alcohol to forget they are stressed to the max, unless of course they are too tired by their workload to get drunk. IMO apathy is rampant in most first world countries, their governments rape their constituents on a regular basis and they lack the drive to know what is happening or if they do know they just get drunk and turn on the TV to watch some sports.
|
2012-10-14, 15:27 | Link #875 | |||||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||
2012-10-14, 15:31 | Link #876 | ||
Me at work
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
2012-10-14, 15:32 | Link #877 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
|
Reactions and presentation of the scene.
Quote:
Simply speaking, the dominator statements are not orders, but definitely the course of action they are encouraged to use (which is enforced by the fact the Dominator changes its mode automatically without the wielder to input the change: so instead of being a mere indicator of the criminal mind state, it simply adapt into the function "they should be using"). To begin with, the way how Masaoka explained the lethal mode, it was basically judged by the whole system they should just execute the criminal without any attempt to capture them. So whether they may not follow the dominator statement, the actions they take reflect the system decisions. And the decisions and considerations taken do not consider the nature of the individual in front of her, so stating "this individual should die", means that regardless what they think, they should just kill them, which Kougami tried.
__________________
|
|
2012-10-14, 15:32 | Link #878 |
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 39
|
44 pages already? Wow.
Having obviously not read all of the latest discussion. Doesn't the gun just kind of read the target's psychological profile as it targets them? If you ask me, the system isn't inherently flawed. It just isn't able to predict what will happen later. It just came up at a certain "value" which apparently the higher ups, or the sybil system or w/e determines to be "uncurable". It doesn't seem to be able to predict what happens later however. Which leads me to believe the reading IS accurate, but the rules are flawed, rather than the system itself. |
2012-10-14, 15:39 | Link #880 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
@Anh_Minh
And this is where my issue come from. You're calling out "flaws" on the system but you don't even really know how it works. No need to repeat myself. And what if the next episode tells you that you're wrong? Is this show a documentary made by a supporter of the Sibyl/Psycho Pass system? And I'll say this again... if Akane did not interfere then it would not have escalated further. The system didn't even give the victim an oracle/judgement. @Klashikari But do you know what she's thinking? No, you don't. The same goes for Masaoka and Kogami. So what's wrong with following a paralyze recommendation? And no the victim never got a Sibyl oracle/judgement.
__________________
|
Tags |
action, psychological, science fiction, thriller |
Thread Tools | |
|
|