Log Horizon - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Remember Akatsuki could be locked inside Crescent Moon's guild hall by Henrietta. Whoever owns the cathedral could turn the place into a morgue easily: no one gets out.

She was not locked inside the Guild Hall, she was locked out of one of the rooms inside it she was attempting to flee into. Indeed, if restrictions on who can exit a guild hall actually existed, it would open a rather huge plot hole as to why the guildmaster of Hamelin never restricted Minori and the other crafters from leaving. Technically it could be answered with "Hamelin's Guildmaster is just that comically inept, but that would not be good writing. Especially as no one showed any concern that Minori might not be able to just walk out of the guild hall.

[The Green One]

The reason why they don't restrict them from leaving because it'd be a pain in the butt to have to get the guild master to reset permission when they take the newbies out for the hunting each day. Much less effort to just turn on pvp and threaten them with horrible beatings to keep them in line through fear.

[Iamis]

I don't think you can restrict a person from leaving with the system

if they could the guild master of hamelin would just set restrictions individually so the people going on a hunt could do so and keep the people crafting in

[The Green One]

Actually you can, the guild room is not part of the guild building. It showed in this episode that the Hamelin goons couldn't chase Minori and Tohya out into the guild building from the guild room because Shiroe had blacklisted them and locked them out. It was old Shredder that wasn't on the blacklist yet which is why he could get out. The only way the goons could get out now is to either cast call to home or suicide themselves.

[Iamis]

Shiroe is denying entry, not preventing people from leaving

Preventing people from leaving and denying entry are two different things

[The Green One]

You're missing the point. He's denying them entry to the guild building which prevents them from leaving. It means the same thing.

[Iamis]

No, just because the Result is the same does not mean they are the same thing,

Shiroe is Denying entry to the guild building, in this case the only way in or out of the Hamelin Guild hall is the guild building effectively preventing them from leaving

Shiroe is not the guild master of Hamelin, the hamelin guild master would have done so if he could

[The Green One]

*sigh* If you don't want to listen be my guest.

[Iamis]

You do Realize Hamelin can still leave with Call of home or commiting suicide and respawning in the cathedral right?

Hamelin's guild hall has one entrance/exit and that is in the guild building

Shiroe Denies Entry to the guild building

As a consequence they are stuck temporarily and cannot leave through the door, they must use other ways to leave their guild hall

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by The Green One

The reason why they don't restrict them from leaving because it'd be a pain in the butt to have to get the guild master to reset permission when they take the newbies out for the hunting each day. Much less effort to just turn on pvp and threaten them with horrible beatings to keep them in line through fear.

But they've always kept the crafters inside. If denying exit from your own guild hallwas possible, they would have done so.

Iamis is right that this is an important distinction. Shiroe denied them entry into the guild building, which in turn prevented them from exiting their own guild hall. But Hamelin could not have restricted the kids from leaving.

[bones]

All this buying of zones reminds me of Monopoly. It was awesome how Shiroe pretty much told the combat guilds that their numbers meant squat and that he didn't need their help to control the Akiba players

[Kafriel]

And now, Shiroe owns the largest bank in the Japan server Does that mean he can withdraw anything he wants from other players' accounts too? Anyway, smooth move, now he has everyone's attention - let's see how he will go about it for the other towns and what he can do to keep Akiba balanced...but he can't really buy each and every zone there is, considering the fact that everything that was once background can now be purchased.

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by bones

All this buying of zones reminds me of Monopoly. It was awesome how Shiroe pretty much told the combat guilds that their numbers meant squat and that he didn't need their help to control the Akiba players

He still needs their help. He can't afford to have a third of the city going against everything he does. Like he said it's a threat but it's forced all the guild leaders to sit and take part in the meeting instead of simply walking out.

[Netto Azure]

I wonder if a guild is going to buy the cathedral in retaliation. Though I doubt any guild has that kind of finances considering it needed the pooling of 3 major Merchant guilds currency to pull this off.

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

I wonder if a guild is going to buy the cathedral in retaliation. Though I doubt any guild has that kind of finances considering it needed the pooling of 3 major Merchant guilds currency to pull this off.

I think that's unlikely, while I'm not certain, it seems like a single person gets control of a zone, not a group, so while I believe the largest production guild probably could finance a purchase that big, you'd have to have a lot of trust in your leader not to turn on you to give gold for something like that.

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

And now, Shiroe owns the largest bank in the Japan server Does that mean he can withdraw anything he wants from other players' accounts too? Anyway, smooth move, now he has everyone's attention - let's see how he will go about it for the other towns and what he can do to keep Akiba balanced...but he can't really buy each and every zone there is, considering the fact that everything that was once background can now be purchased.

From my understanding ( i could be wrong), Shiroe can't withdraw anything from other people's vault. What he can do though is to prevent access from people entering guild building zone ( where the bank is hosted). Basically they will lose access to all their valuable items, gold, ... that are stored in banks.

Originally Posted by Krono

She was not locked inside the Guild Hall, she was locked out of one of the rooms inside it she was attempting to flee into. Indeed, if restrictions on who can exit a guild hall actually existed, it would open a rather huge plot hole as to why the guildmaster of Hamelin never restricted Minori and the other crafters from leaving. Technically it could be answered with "Hamelin's Guildmaster is just that comically inept, but that would not be good writing. Especially as no one showed any concern that Minori might not be able to just walk out of the guild hall.

Originally Posted by The Green One

The reason why they don't restrict them from leaving because it'd be a pain in the butt to have to get the guild master to reset permission when they take the newbies out for the hunting each day. Much less effort to just turn on pvp and threaten them with horrible beatings to keep them in line through fear.

From my understanding ( i could be wrong), Shiroe basically bought the guild building zone ( the place that hosts many guild halls including Hamelin's). Hamelin could make it so no one can enter his zone ( his guild hall), but the permission in entering the guild bank zone rest with Shiroe.

So basically any one shiroe blacklist can't enter guild building zone ( in effect leaving their own guild hall since those Halls are within guild building ).

Shiroe could for example imprison crescent moon members from leaving their own hall since it's within the guild building zone.

And of course guild Hamelin members could get out of the guild hall by using call home spell but then again after leaving they wouldn't be able to get back to their guild hall since it's within guild building zone ( under shiroe's control).

Does this affect big guilds? No. because they have their guild halls in another place not linked to guild building zone.
But still they lose access to their bank inventory.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

Awesome. To paraphrase. 'We can go to war!' Hand rises. 'I own the guild building.' Cue 'Oh Crap!'

I also liked that the crafting guilds once they realized what their 5 million was for, were kind of awed rather than outright angry. Kind of a 'He's got balls!' in expressions.

I guess there probably was also a hint of "well, what's done is done, let's pretend we were aware of this from the beginning in front of the others". After all, being the ones who funded the operation exposes them to the hatred of any guilds who are not okay with the new system, while Shiroe can be a powerful ally. Playing along at this point is a better choice. Also, it can be very profitable to side with the winner in this instance, AND as merchant guilds they probably benefit the most from the existence of laws and rules (they get more chances to acquire power with money and influence, while in an "only the strong" kind of world they are simply prey for those who are more apt at combat. If someone were to achieve LV 91 and superior they'd start risking of being beaten and robbed by this new elite of warlords).

[Kyu Renjo]

But is it possible that Shiroe make the permission to Exit the guild hall? Because the text in the sub said:

Entry Permission: None
Exit Permission: None

Or not?

[Alf]

I think that anime presentation of permissions is generating plot holes....since there isn't any other hint of exit permission setting so far, and that setting is not in the novel so far, let's pretent it don't exist

[Kyu Renjo]

Originally Posted by Alf

I think that anime presentation of permissions is generating plot holes....since there isn't any other hint of exit permission setting so far, and that setting is not in the novel so far, let's pretent it don't exist

I just read new translation of vol 1 chapter 2, and it seems that the text are exist in the novel.

This tab displays information of the zone you are in, detailing 'Japanese server/ Akiba/ City area - No monsters/ Battle restricted zone/ Entry Restriction (None)/ Exit Restriction (None)'.