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Znail · 2012-10-05, 20:43

It's a bit sad that such a usefull term have been devauled into having no meaning. There are quite a few actuall Mary Sue or Gary Stu characters around that could be usefull to have that term for.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

Even there so are the term not quite definined as it's been missued so much. But for me so is it pretty to define the criteria. The character needs to break the suspension of disbelief due to being too good at too many things.

The only issue I can see with Kirito shows up in GGO, but as far as the anime goes, so no. Kirito being good at SAO is no problem as someone has to be the best at it and the story just happens to follow that person.

If anything so would I consider those characters who starts out like Evermen and then develop into being super cool due to some wierd event far more of a problem then Kirito, that just happens to be the guy with the most talent and interest in SAO to reach the top. Someone is always at the top after all, so it's hardly unrealistic for a story to be about one.

Kazu-kun · 2012-10-05, 20:54

I wouldn't have much problems with Kirito if being a competent gamer was his sole skill. But he also has detective-tier deductive skills, and is also a highly skilled programmer (or so it seems). There's also the fact that every girl he meets wants into his pants.

All in all, it's a bit too much. He doesn't need to be an everyman, but he doesn't need to be like this either. A middle ground would work best imo.

EDIT: I forgot, he also has the perfect mindset to live in that world, and that goes beyond being a skilled gamer.

Krono · 2012-10-05, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

This isn't a formal word/term. There's no "official" meaning. Besides the word is not important. You said it yourself, the criticisms is on the character being too strong, competent, intelligent and lacking on flaws to compensate for their competence. That's what matter, no the term.

If you don't think it's a formal word/term, then you shouldn't be going around telling people they've got the definition wrong.

As for the criticisms themselves, he's not too strong, or too intelligent, and he has flaws, just not the sort of ridiculously exaggerated ones that anime viewers have come to expect.

Kazu-kun · 2012-10-05, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krono

If you don't think it's a formal word/term, then you shouldn't be going around telling people they've got the definition wrong.

First semantics and now strawman? I won't even bother anymore.

Anyway, I'm not going to repeat myself. You can read my post above if you're interested in what I see problematic with Kirito's character.

NoirX · 2012-10-05, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krono

If you don't think it's a formal word/term, then you shouldn't be going around telling people they've got the definition wrong.

As for the criticisms themselves, he's not too strong, or too intelligent, and he has flaws, just not the sort of ridiculously exaggerated ones that anime viewers have come to expect.

To make it more clear, he's just a normal player who plays a game with a high level character.

Znail · 2012-10-05, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I wouldn't have much problems with Kirito if being a competent gamer was his sole skill. But he also has detective-tier deductive skills, and is also a highly skilled programmer (or so it seems). There's also the fact that every girl he meets wants into his pants.

All in all, it's a bit too much. He doesn't need to be an everyman, but he doesn't need to be like this either. A middle ground would work best imo.

EDIT: I forgot, he also has the perfect mindset to live in that world, and that goes beyond being a skilled gamer.

Well, in my generation being a computer gamer and knowing computer programing was quite a common combination of hobbies. Not being stupid isn't that uncommon either. Being popular with girls is obviously not everyones lot though. But still, I could still line up quite a few people that fit that description.

Marina2 · 2012-10-06, 01:19

it is interesting to know where will they end ep.14

If it ends at Kirito wakes up in hospital, people will rage like..

"WTF, so the whole [you die in the game = you die in real life] is alll bullshit. This show has lost all of it tension. Dropped."

NoemiChan · 2012-10-06, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina2

it is interesting to know where will they end ep.14

If it ends at Kirito wakes up in hospital, people will rage like..

"WTF, so the whole [you die in the game = you die in real life] is alll bullshit. This show has lost all of it tension. Dropped."

It'll depends in the coming preview of episode 15... If there would be no clue if she is alive or not... many "anime only" viewers will assume she has past away...

ronelm2000 · 2012-10-06, 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina2

it is interesting to know where will they end ep.14

If it ends at Kirito wakes up in hospital, people will rage like..

"WTF, so the whole [you die in the game = you die in real life] is alll bullshit. This show has lost all of it tension. Dropped."

When that happens, I think I'll say:

Spoiler for LB!Refrain ending...:

Netto Azure · 2012-10-06, 03:40

And then they all come running back to troll when GGO comes out. I'll laugh.

Still can't wait for later, sadly I can't be on to see the train wreck as I have an event to go to in the morning. Heh

RDF2050 · 2012-10-06, 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netto Azure

And then they all come running back to troll when GGO comes out. I'll laugh.

Still can't wait for later, sadly I can't be on to see the train wreck as I have an event to go to in the morning. Heh

Just a few hours until we can tell where exactly episode 14 is going to end at. Oh... and the upcoming RAGE in so many flavours

Esebian · 2012-10-06, 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I wouldn't have much problems with Kirito if being a competent gamer was his sole skill. But he also has detective-tier deductive skills, and is also a highly skilled programmer (or so it seems). There's also the fact that every girl he meets wants into his pants.

All in all, it's a bit too much. He doesn't need to be an everyman, but he doesn't need to be like this either. A middle ground would work best imo.

EDIT: I forgot, he also has the perfect mindset to live in that world, and that goes beyond being a skilled gamer.

Well, but isn't it his perfect mindset that backfires in the Gary Stu discussion? I mean what do you need to be to have such mindset? Well obviously you would need to be a computer nerd, and I can't see how being a nerd is something overly good. IMO it's exactly his mindset that differs him greatly from being a Gary Stu or sb like that.

Btw for being a Gary Stu in a computer game, you need nothing more than much freetime, a good knowledge about skills and builds and obviously the will to play your whole freetime ^^. Packed with the correct mindset you'll have your Gary Stu for sure.

NoirX · 2012-10-06, 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina2

it is interesting to know where will they end ep.14

If it ends at Kirito wakes up in hospital, people will rage like..

"WTF, so the whole [you die in the game = you die in real life] is alll bullshit. This show has lost all of it tension. Dropped."

Before Kirito wakes up, there's a scene where Kayaba and Kirito having a talk in the fight afterwards. Kayaba explained clearly that the people who were dead were really killed by the microwave shock but he made an exception for Kirito and Asuna. So I think if the anime doesn't omit that part, the anime-only viewers should know that Kirito and Asuna were the only exception to survive after ingame death.

duckroll · 2012-10-06, 04:58

Behold, Kirito's sister:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Also, it appears the episode title for ep18 is "To the World Tree".

NoirX · 2012-10-06, 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckroll

Behold, Kirito's sister:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Also, it appears the episode title for ep18 is "To the World Tree".

Then it seems like the fight between Kirito and Eugene will be around episode 18 as I predicted before.

Ray · 2012-10-06, 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckroll

Behold, Kirito's sister:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Also, it appears the episode title for ep18 is "To the World Tree".

Ahh, Lyfa looks pretty awesome in anime form. :3

Peanutbutter · 2012-10-06, 07:18

Wow, the ep 14 trailer. Everything in that episode is a spoiler.

zaz122 · 2012-10-06, 07:28

You know what I feel is gonna happen? A-1 will animate Kirito waking up from the game and his body will not be hooked up to any life support system at all. And the kicker will be that there will be no signs of him "withering away".

ronelm2000 · 2012-10-06, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckroll

Behold, Kirito's sister:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Also, it appears the episode title for ep18 is "To the World Tree".

Her anime form: can only say... love love love.

teja208 · 2012-10-06, 07:38

Ok people let's brace ourselves for the absolute chaos that is episode 14 discussion thread.

2012-10-05, 20:54	Link #1602
Kazu-kun Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	I wouldn't have much problems with Kirito if being a competent gamer was his sole skill. But he also has detective-tier deductive skills, and is also a highly skilled programmer (or so it seems). There's also the fact that every girl he meets wants into his pants. All in all, it's a bit too much. He doesn't need to be an everyman, but he doesn't need to be like this either. A middle ground would work best imo. EDIT: I forgot, he also has the perfect mindset to live in that world, and that goes beyond being a skilled gamer. __________________

2012-10-06, 01:19	Link #1607
Marina2 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006	it is interesting to know where will they end ep.14 If it ends at Kirito wakes up in hospital, people will rage like.. "WTF, so the whole [you die in the game = you die in real life] is alll bullshit. This show has lost all of it tension. Dropped." __________________

2012-10-06, 03:40	Link #1610
Netto Azure → Wandering Bard Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Grancel City, Liberl Kingdom	And then they all come running back to troll when GGO comes out. I'll laugh. Still can't wait for later, sadly I can't be on to see the train wreck as I have an event to go to in the morning. Heh __________________ «Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky SC» PokeCommuninity \| Bulbagarden \| Tumblr \| MAL

2012-10-05, 20:43	Link #1601
Znail Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011	It's a bit sad that such a usefull term have been devauled into having no meaning. There are quite a few actuall Mary Sue or Gary Stu characters around that could be usefull to have that term for. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue Even there so are the term not quite definined as it's been missued so much. But for me so is it pretty to define the criteria. The character needs to break the suspension of disbelief due to being too good at too many things. The only issue I can see with Kirito shows up in GGO, but as far as the anime goes, so no. Kirito being good at SAO is no problem as someone has to be the best at it and the story just happens to follow that person. If anything so would I consider those characters who starts out like Evermen and then develop into being super cool due to some wierd event far more of a problem then Kirito, that just happens to be the guy with the most talent and interest in SAO to reach the top. Someone is always at the top after all, so it's hardly unrealistic for a story to be about one.

2012-10-06, 04:58	Link #1614
duckroll 綺羅星★！ Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 42	Behold, Kirito's sister: Images Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? Also, it appears the episode title for ep18 is "To the World Tree".

2012-10-06, 07:18	Link #1617
Peanutbutter Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	Wow, the ep 14 trailer. Everything in that episode is a spoiler.

2012-10-06, 07:28	Link #1618
zaz122 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012	You know what I feel is gonna happen? A-1 will animate Kirito waking up from the game and his body will not be hooked up to any life support system at all. And the kicker will be that there will be no signs of him "withering away".

2012-10-06, 07:38	Link #1620
teja208 Critical fanboy Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Anywhere with anime and anime discussion is fine	Ok people let's brace ourselves for the absolute chaos that is episode 14 discussion thread.