[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 3 Banquet of the golden witch

[Proto]

Nevertheless the spelling is a little odd. Well, then again it's not like there are fixed and definite usage rules for the extended katakana set I guess.

Or maybe it's a contrived hint telling us that the Ronowe here is not the real Ronove. Go figure.

[Bern-chan]

I've seen the wiki, I just wanted to know why you chose that spelling. D=

Also, is it true onscripter wouldn't be able to display Ronové?

I know, off topic. Last question. xD

[Klashikari]

Onscripter is unable to display any accent at all, it will simply put a square or something.
Same thing with Mariage Sorcière: we won't be able to put that accent.

That said, Ronove spelling is fine without any accent.

[Bern-chan]

What's the Mariage Sorcière?

[Proto]

An ep. 4 only term. AKA you don't want to know

oh noes, a mod posted untagged spoilers [/snarky]

[Bern-chan]

I don't mind spoilers, PM me. D=

[Unentschieden]

Well as being mentioned in ???? EP1 the first thing to do is to understand the rules. The very first would be to figure out what is true and what isn´t.

The stuff being observed by "Meta-Battler" obviously isn´t ensured to be true, the battlescene in EP3 made that clear. That would include effectivly anything NOT observed by the real and unbelieving Battler (he is the only one who refuses to accept the witch, especially evident in the epilouges).

That doesn´t mean that nothing would be true that was percieved from the "Metaview", but it introduces quite some more possibilites. For example the Gold - no actual proof. Beatrice in EP2? Was seen in the very end but by then Battler temporarily accepted her.

The Metaworld/Purgatory itself (and all its inhabitants/visitors) falls under that too - especially evident when it vanishes at the end of ep3 due to Beatrices "suicide by truth". (That also brings up another point - Beatrices win condition is Battlers acceptance, not proving that she is the culprit).

[Bern-chan]

Originally Posted by Unentschieden

Well as being mentioned in ???? EP1 the first thing to do is to understand the rules. The very first would be to figure out what is true and what isn´t.

The stuff being observed by "Meta-Battler" obviously isn´t ensured to be true, the battlescene in EP3 made that clear. That would include effectivly anything NOT observed by the real and unbelieving Battler (he is the only one who refuses to accept the witch, especially evident in the epilouges).

That doesn´t mean that nothing would be true that was percieved from the "Metaview", but it introduces quite some more possibilites. For example the Gold - no actual proof. Beatrice in EP2? Was seen in the very end but by then Battler temporarily accepted her.

The Metaworld/Purgatory itself (and all its inhabitants/visitors) falls under that too - especially evident when it vanishes at the end of ep3 due to Beatrices "suicide by truth". (That also brings up another point - Beatrices win condition is Battlers acceptance, not proving that she is the culprit).

Good point. Nothing really supernatural was shown to us until after Ep1 when Battler entered the meta world. We were shown closed rooms but no magic 'in action'. Unless I'm forgetting something.

[Mercurius]

Originally Posted by Bern-chan

Good point. Nothing really supernatural was shown to us until after Ep1 when Battler entered the meta world. We were shown closed rooms but no magic 'in action'. Unless I'm forgetting something.

Kanon and the gold butterflies? Unless that doesn't count as supernatural.

[Unentschieden]

Originally Posted by Mercurius

Kanon and the gold butterflies? Unless that doesn't count as supernatural.

Suspicious is more like it. Even if we trust Kanons PoV, it certainly isn´t proof for magic.

[Avisch]

Yeah same with Shannon's POV earlier in the episode. No proof of magic.

[Matrim]

All the butterfly moments in ep.1 are right before the character who sees them gets killed. And of course, everyone knows or learns during those two days the story of Beatrice and her golden insects form, so if they see something yellow in the dark, they would probably jump to the conclusion that the little golden bastards are coming to get them.

[Exilon]

I actually think some of those gold butterflies either mean something else, are delusions, or are real butterflies. ....Hum, I really don't what to think, but they do seem to have various meanings. Remember how they appear sometimes?
In Episode 2, I can think of two moments where butterflies seem to be something else: first, when Rosa is going up the stairs to Kinzo's study, it's said that a butterfly lands on her back, and stays there. Nothing else is mentioned about that. Also, when Genji is alone in the kitchen, he impales one single butterfly with his knife. ...Is it plausible to think, for instance, that these are, say, tracking devices or something of the sort?

[ClockWorkAngel]

I would be more tempted to say that a butterfly meant someone's perception.

For example that would mean that someone watched Rosa going up to Kinzo. And Genji noticing someone watching him and quickly retreating.

Just came back from a trip tired

[Nadeor]

If we were to say butterfly as a phantasmagoria or an illusion
Whatever caused that Illusion, since by judging that the butterflies cannot fly in the rain in EP2, might have affected the victim through either hearing or smelling senses...

Henthel's ravens again:
(This time, in JAVA!)
(I'm bored =_=)

if(goldenbutterfly.isIllusion == true)
{
AntiMystery = false; AntiFantasy = true;
}
else if(goldenbutterfly.isIllusion == false)
{
AntiFantasy = false; AntiMystery = true;
}

It's just a relativity between the two; So I would go for the buttefly is illusion theory
(Cuz I'm Anti-Fantasy XD)

[k//eternal]

Efficient coding mandates that you don't use an "else if" command for the opposite conditional, you can just use "else" because there are only two cases anyway.

Don't be so quick to discount the possibility that something resembling golden butterflies can actually exist, either.

[chronotrig]

We might be talking about Schrodinger's cat here, so it could be neither true nor false.
Hence the second test is necessary.

Actually, there's no guarantee that the gold butterflies are the same thing in each game. They could be fake in the first ep but real in ep2 and after--but only in the meta world--which would be an anti-fantasy theory. More or less.

[UminekoFan]

Hi, guys!

Just finished reading Umineko (3rd EP) yesterday and I have a few questions going around in my head. Would any of you be kind enough to tell me if they are answered in EP4?

*SPOILERS for EP3*

Spoiler for Umineko EP3:

Q.1 --- We already know that Kumasama is Virgilia and she can easily protect herself from the Seven Stakes, then why didn't she protect herself in EP1 and EP2?
Q.2 --- Is Virigilia on Beatrice's side? If she is that makes no sense since as far as I remember Virgilia told Beatrice that Magic should be used to give happiness and not pain and damage to humans. Was Beatrice lying about Virigilia telling her all this?
Q.3 --- Did Ronove know that Beatrice was faking about reforming herself?

That's all.

[Klashikari]

1. Virgilia and Kumasawa are separate entities. As shown in the banquet in the end, both are not sharing the same body. Therefore, Virgilia just used Kumasawa as a vessel in episode 3, that's all.
Also, remember that Beato stirred too much stuff over the chessboards that made virgilia awakening.
Finally, since magic is obviously pure fantasy that should not be considered thus far, regardless if they are the same person, it is plain normal kumasawa cannot survive.

2. That is not true if Virgilia is controlled by Beato. If she becomes her pawn (just like "dark" kanon in episode 2), even if she is almighty, ever since she is revived by Beato, it is useless.
Since we had that tips + dream at the start (which cannot be witnessed by Battler), it means that Virgilia was most likely what she was shown to begin with, but there isn't any clue that shows when she turned into Beato's side.

3. Considering Ronove's usual jabs, it is very likely that he knew the plan.

[Shadow Miko]

I'm curious about something at the end of ep3 and ep4.

Spoiler:

The siestas 'protect' Maria and call her Lady Maria. Could this mean they knew she would become a witch in ep4? Or was it because she already had her own powers? Or am I looking to much into it? If something had been said against... like... Kyrie, would you have called her Lady Kyrie and such? I mean I'm not sure if that was the real Maria or not but... ack, I'm confused. am I just looking too much into this?