Zeta Gundam discussion

[Killer Tomato]

Yea Zeta was good, in being able to have a strong supporting cast while not displacing the main character a la GSD.

[oxblud]

Why in the world was Kamille given the Zeta anyways? He's no better in it then the Mark II. Fa & Katz (the 2 most annoying characters & I don't consider them pilots) had to save his a@$ on a few occasions, which is totally sad.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by oxblud

Why in the world was Kamille given the Zeta anyways? He's no better in it then the Mark II. Fa & Katz (the 2 most annoying characters & I don't consider them pilots) had to save his a@$ on a few occasions, which is totally sad.

1) He was the main character and the Zeta was the titular mech. Goes hand in hand.

2) He helped make the damn thing, so...

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

He more than helped make it; he DESIGNED the damn thing and, along with Anaheim tech and such, basically help perfected the whole transformation problems that were going on (which lead to the Hyaku Shiki and the imperfect Methuss). Though whether or not naming it "Zeta Gundam" was a coincidence (since the whole project was the "Z" or "Zeta Project") is unknown.

Also, don't forget, in reference to Char's words, just having a better mobile suit doesn't make you a/the better pilot. Just because Kamille moved up from the Mark II to the Zeta Gundam, that doesn't make him so much better than EVERYONE else so of course he'd need to be saved in the nick of time on various occassions. (Even Amuro had to be saved in MSG several times as did Judai in ZZ.) 1 single person can't handle everything by themself unless the writer's (stupidly) make it that way. So even those in "weaker" MS can still make a huge difference in battle in some way. (Even the Gundam Mark II, which was considered outclassed even before halfway through the Gryps War, managed to survive through it mostly AND through the end of the First Neo Zeon War, which had MS that were WAY above its level and the Hyaku Shiki's.)

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by oxblud

Why in the world was Kamille given the Zeta anyways? He's no better in it then the Mark II. Fa & Katz (the 2 most annoying characters & I don't consider them pilots) had to save his a@$ on a few occasions, which is totally sad.

Everyone had to save Kamille's ass on occasion: Zeta Gundam is one of the series with the most deus ex machina saves for the main character of any Gundam series. I'm not talking about innate hax skills that come forth at convenient times, like newtype abilities or Seed Mode; I literally mean machines that come out of nowhere to save Kamille's hide.

Everyone remembers Jerid as that loser who never beat Kamille. What almost no one remembers is that Jerid actually had Kamille on the ropes as not, prepared to deal the the finishing blow; it's just that Kamille kept having people coming in to save him at the last moment. Every single suit Jerid piloted, he either matched (draw) or was prevented from dealing a death blow, all the way until the Bound Doc. Which really said something, since Kamille is ranked as one of the titans of UC newtypes, while Jerid was an ambiguous newtype at best.

While I'm on my Titans fan-rant, I might as well give one of my biggest beefs of the series: the english voice acting. For the Titans, it's atrocious. Many sound like whiny, nasaly wannabe punks, not the cold-blooded tyranical personalities that you could usually feel even in the Japanese voice acting. Biggest complaint goes for Jerid himself, who went from young man who grows up as a foil and foil to Kamille... to young punk who never sounds like he matures.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

But don't forget that the same goes for everyone else too (being saved on 1 or more occassions) and not JUST Kamille, so it's really quite balanced overall and not so one-sided as one may think. Quattro, Reccoa, Emma, Katz, everyone has been saved by someone throughout the series.

Also, don't forget that Jerid also had help several times against Kamille too, which is why he even got close to winning sometimes, even from the beginning; Lila, Kaccricon, Mouar, etc, so having someone pop up to back up Kamille really just evened the odds more. (Also makes it look more "heroic" for them.) The Byalant and the Baund Doc being the MS that he really went it himself with. So the arguement really goes both ways.

Though, yeah, the dubbed does make Jerid sound really whiny and non-maturing...though, like Kamille, he does tend to let his emotions run wild at inopportune moments sometimes. Though, losing 1 person you had a crush on and 1 you actually had a relationship with to the same person who happens to be your hated rival...well...most people probably would x_x;;

[Willowhugger]

Jerid is a punch clock villain to some extent.

Really, you have to wonder how he EVER thought he could lead the Titans.

The guy never caught a clue even when the Titans were on their last legs.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Everyone had to save Kamille's ass on occasion: Zeta Gundam is one of the series with the most deus ex machina saves for the main character of any Gundam series. I'm not talking about innate hax skills that come forth at convenient times, like newtype abilities or Seed Mode; I literally mean machines that come out of nowhere to save Kamille's hide.

Everyone remembers Jerid as that loser who never beat Kamille. What almost no one remembers is that Jerid actually had Kamille on the ropes as not, prepared to deal the the finishing blow; it's just that Kamille kept having people coming in to save him at the last moment. Every single suit Jerid piloted, he either matched (draw) or was prevented from dealing a death blow, all the way until the Bound Doc. Which really said something, since Kamille is ranked as one of the titans of UC newtypes, while Jerid was an ambiguous newtype at best.

While I'm on my Titans fan-rant, I might as well give one of my biggest beefs of the series: the english voice acting. For the Titans, it's atrocious. Many sound like whiny, nasaly wannabe punks, not the cold-blooded tyranical personalities that you could usually feel even in the Japanese voice acting. Biggest complaint goes for Jerid himself, who went from young man who grows up as a foil and foil to Kamille... to young punk who never sounds like he matures.

Really, I liked the English dub for Jerid. Compared to his Japanese, Inoue sounds too old. Jerid is this cocky pilot (who almost has the mindset of a teen), I think the dub did good justice.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

But don't forget that the same goes for everyone else too (being saved on 1 or more occassions) and not JUST Kamille, so it's really quite balanced overall and not so one-sided as one may think. Quattro, Reccoa, Emma, Katz, everyone has been saved by someone throughout the series.

Oh, yes. That's why I (meant to, at least) point out that it was a series-wide, not character specific, trait. I just happen to like Jerid as a character and character concept.

Also, don't forget that Jerid also had help several times against Kamille too, which is why he even got close to winning sometimes, even from the beginning; Lila, Kaccricon, Mouar, etc, so having someone pop up to back up Kamille really just evened the odds more. (Also makes it look more "heroic" for them.) The Byalant and the Baund Doc being the MS that he really went it himself with. So the arguement really goes both ways.

Oh, indeed indeed. But it doesn't take the deus-ex-machina effect away (which annoys me), and it leads many to forget that, yes, Jerid was a peer competitor for Kamille during most of the series.

Though, yeah, the dubbed does make Jerid sound really whiny and non-maturing...though, like Kamille, he does tend to let his emotions run wild at inopportune moments sometimes. Though, losing 1 person you had a crush on and 1 you actually had a relationship with to the same person who happens to be your hated rival...well...most people probably would x_x;;

And your best friend, and part of your first command...


One of the critical divergences between Jerid and Kamille's largely-parallel character development through the series was that, in the end, Kamille had one more person left than Jerid. Jerid lost everyone and everything important to him, even before that final battle. But, because of Apolly, Kamille still had Fa to keep him healthy and sane. That, in my mind, was what was most important in keeping Kamille from embracing the cycle of revenge that Jerid fell into; he still had precious people left to support him.

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

Jerid is a punch clock villain to some extent.

Really, you have to wonder how he EVER thought he could lead the Titans.

The guy never caught a clue even when the Titans were on their last legs.

The thing was, though, that Jerid was shown to have the makings of a good leader. He was willing to humble himself to Lila to learn how to be better (shortly before Kamille gets his own Wong 'correction'), he remembered his friends, he even overcame the prospect to murder Kamille in cold blood. When he was given a command, he did it and did it as well as could be expected, and in space even his own command stood up to commend him. And then we had the Maour death-scene, where she implied that he did have the ability to be a great leader and to change the world.

Course, after Maour kicked the bucked, Jerid really cared more about revenge against Kamille than anything else, though he did make progress by apparently becoming Jamitov's right-hand man.

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Really, I liked the English dub for Jerid. Compared to his Japanese, Inoue sounds too old. Jerid is this cocky pilot (who almost has the mindset of a teen), I think the dub did good justice.

Oh, indeed he is. But he matures, parallel to Kamille, so still sounding young and punkish (and with a grating nasally voice) takes away from it. Sort of how no one would dig Kamille if he sounded like a buck-toothed, mouth-breathing pocket-protector geek from episode one to final.

[Willowhugger]

Course, after Maour kicked the bucked, Jerid really cared more about revenge against Kamille than anything else, though he did make progress by apparently becoming Jamitov's right-hand man.

Yeah, Jerid was an actually interesting character. It's a pity we never got any real background on the guy. All we know is he was an ambitious Earthnoid who got caught up with the wrong sort of people.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

Yeah, Jerid was an actually interesting character. It's a pity we never got any real background on the guy. All we know is he was an ambitious Earthnoid who got caught up with the wrong sort of people.

Keeping Zeta Gundam's nature in my mind, i was a bit surprised that we didn't get anything on Jerid's background, but then again it's not something missing from the show --- it wasn't needed. It kept up his role in the show perfectly, from start until finish.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Keeping Zeta Gundam's nature in my mind, i was a bit surprised that we didn't get anything on Jerid's background, but then again it's not something missing from the show --- it wasn't needed. It kept up his role in the show perfectly, from start until finish.

If you've heard of Mark, likely the biggest Gundam fan in the English-speaking world (and he's worked for Bandai for Gundam), he once put just a mite of background, given from some obscure Japanese magazine or another. Jerid was/is likely from a line of EF officials/military pedigree, and was living in/around southern North America before joining the EF military (and, apparently, towards the top of his class).

Not much, and I could be remembering something incorrectly, but that's the general gidst. Think of him like a American Southerner who can count off the relatives that have served in the military across the generations.

[blitz1/2]

But everyone can agree with me that the Titans were treated very badly (not enough characters and not enough development).

I find the Titans extremely interesting, sure they can be oppressive. But it's gay to find that it's like they have a giant banner on top saying, "If you are a tough guy and like commiting massacres, then join the Titans!"


Bio-sensor pissed me off to no end! You can stick Kamille in front of the colony laser, kill off one of friends, or make him get a tantrum inside his suit, and I bet he can block the Colony laser.

[Willowhugger]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

But everyone can agree with me that the Titans were treated very badly (not enough characters and not enough development).

Actually, I like the A-Laws in Gundam 00 because they're actually a better fit for the Titans than the Gundam Seed Destiny villains. Fundamentally, the Titans work a lot better than most of the Gundam villains because while moral ambiguity is a Gundam mainstay....the Titans are just bad people.

Yes, there are likable Titans but it's nice to have some "Boo Hiss" bad guys on occasion too.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

Actually, I like the A-Laws in Gundam 00 because they're actually a better fit for the Titans than the Gundam Seed Destiny villains. Fundamentally, the Titans work a lot better than most of the Gundam villains because while moral ambiguity is a Gundam mainstay....the Titans are just bad people.

Yes, there are likable Titans but it's nice to have some "Boo Hiss" bad guys on occasion too.

GSD EA was like ......(slavery, massacres). Makes me think if Fukuda really wanted to be a spacenoid.

A-Laws were better than the Titans because at least some of the soldiers still retain their humanity and their moral

[Willowhugger]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

GSD EA was like ......(slavery, massacres). Makes me think if Fukuda really wanted to be a spacenoid.

A-Laws were better than the Titans because at least some of the soldiers still retain their humanity and their moral

The Titans are probably my favorite villains, even ranking over the Zeon to be honest. They were bad guys that gassed colonies and engaged in deplorable tactics like using a guy's mother as a human shield/performing human experimentation. However, unlike GSD, they actually seemed to be doing so because they got RESULTS from being evil. Unlike the Extended from GDS, their Ax Crazy Pilots occasionally worked out for them. All of the Titans were also neatly defined in their motivations with some contradictory but understandable agendas.

The A-laws so far are a bit Titans-lite because they haven't quite displayed the same level of pure evil (unless the attacks against Azadistan were the A-Laws instead of Ribbons' own evil for its own sake) but they manage to capture most of the fun from the group.

Good villains are not misunderstood, they're evil. They're not STUPID evil though.

That's my theory at least.

[Dean_the_Young]

Zeon: Neutral Evil
EA: Petty, stupid, incompetant chaotic evil
Titans: Lawful Evil

Hey, if you make the laws, then technically you aren't breaking them...

[KaiDamien]

I have been wanting to ask this for quite some time now.
Near the start of the show Argama had 3 Gundam MK II. Quattro pilotted one, Kamillie pilotted one w/o one arm. And later they only one Mk II was shown. What happened to the other 2?

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by KaiDamien

I have been wanting to ask this for quite some time now.
Near the start of the show Argama had 3 Gundam MK II. Quattro pilotted one, Kamillie pilotted one w/o one arm. And later they only one Mk II was shown. What happened to the other 2?

One of them was sent to be reverse engineered upon. The other scavenged for parts.

[Hellbore]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

One of them was sent to be reverse engineered upon. The other scavenged for parts.

..and as far as I can see, Anaheim did nothing special with the Mk. II, possibly because the entire idea behind the Mk II was nothing special.