2011-11-25, 03:34 | Link #1003 |
Join Date: Jan 2009
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That depends on how you define them
Seriously, definitions like the ones you find in dictionaries are just attempts to find an approximation of how people speak a language, of how they play around with the words. "People" already suggests a uniformity that does not exist. Which people? When? Different people at different times play with language differently using different sets of rules. Definitions are static, language is dynamic. Considering the complexity of language it is remarkable that we can even communicate at all. Abstract terms like "knowledge", but also "love", "justice", "freedom" and the like have baffled us for millenia, and yet we frequently use these words without even knowing what precisely we mean by them, much less what conception our conversation partner has. It does however to some extent explain why there is so much miscommunication, and most certainly humbles anybody who seriously contemplates language. |
2011-11-25, 11:02 | Link #1004 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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It does, but wisdom is not the word in question, knowledge is. Well, how do you define them? To me, education imparts knowledge, and knowledge is being aware of something.
Quote:
So, say what you want about how dictionaries can be imprecise. But it is a fact that the word ignorance in the English language is defined as lack of knowledge. Just because it is also defined as lack of education/awareness doesn't discredit the first definition, it merely adds to that. |
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2011-11-25, 12:44 | Link #1005 | |||
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Actually, the original quote that sparked this discussion was about wisdom as well ...
Quote:
Take Magritte's famous painting of a pipe: http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/arti...tte-pipe.shtml "Ceci n'est pas une pipe." - "This is not a pipe." Even the best, in this case visual, representation of an object cannot retain the qualities of the object itself. You cannot touch the representation of a pipe, and you cannot smoke it. You can only touch and smoke the real thing. With language as a system of symbols it's a little more complicated, but the basic idea is the same: While you play around with representations of objects, you actually believe you play around with the objects themselves. Without this confusion of representation and object, fiction would be impossible. In different contexts, however, this confusion is less pleasant. People actually believe they are talking about reality when really they are just using language, playing around with signs. Language is both the door to fantasy as well as the barrier that separates us forever from reality, since reality is mediated through language, and the representations in language fall short of that which they represent. As a result (and also taking into account what I said in my previous post), defining things using language may be a heck of a lot of fun - but it is ultimately pointless. But if you want my opinion not on what "knowledge" is, but on what "knowledge" does, I just recently had a rather extensive conversation on that topic with Knightrunner and you can read it on my profile if you like (scroll back a page or two). You seem like an intelligent fellow, maybe you can make more sense of what I said than I. Quote:
Yet they are to some extent necessary, because language would be awfully clunky if you were to actually formulate all the implicit and hidden information in any given text. True, lexical definitions like "a man is an adult male human" are pretty unproblematic and most people would agree to that. "Man" does not need to be defined. Try explicating something like "knowledge" or "justice" and you will meet with fierce resistance. Even worse if you claim that yours is the only version and you make your private opinion look like it were an absolute truth. It's not just dictionaries, they are just one example. The precision you are looking for does not exist in natural languages. Quote:
Read my post again, it does. If you still don't understand it, consider the non-exclusive "or" that is part of the dictionary definitions. In order for the definition to apply, only one part of the definition has to be true. |
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2011-11-25, 19:56 | Link #1006 |
~Official Slacker~
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
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I am bone of my PSP
Buttons are my Body and Analog are my blood I have Defeated over a Thousand Enemies Unaware of being Overpowered Nor Aware of Required level Withstood Moe of Caster Waiting for new skills and skill points I have no regrets,I must Level more My whole doing was Unlimited Grind Works ~ majestix1988
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2011-11-26, 14:44 | Link #1008 |
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Chiselled into a stone monument at the local hospital, dedicated to the (Jewish) doctors, nurses and other medical personnel who lost their lives during the Holocaust are the words, "The whole world is a very narrow bridge; and the most important thing is not to be afraid," attributed to Reb Nachman. I always liked that quote a lot.
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2011-12-05, 05:32 | Link #1009 |
Extra Superior Otaku
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I do not concern myself with gods and spirits either good or evil nor do I serve any.
I have just three things to teach: simplicity, patience, compassion. These three are your greatest treasures. He who conquers others is strong; He who conquers himself is mighty. Lao Tzu Always desire to learn something useful. Sophocles Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater. Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school. I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - this is a somewhat new kind of religion. I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein |
2012-01-18, 19:10 | Link #1015 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I'm not sure if I necessarily agree with it, but I thought it was an interesting viewpoint.
Chakotay: Can I ask you to be honest with me, Lieutenant? Tuvok: As a Vulcan, I am at all times honest, Commander. Chakotay: That's not exactly true, You lied to me when you passed yourself off as a Maqui to get on my crew. Tuvok: I was honest to my own convictions within the defined parameters of my mission. - Star Trek Voyager |
2012-01-19, 15:03 | Link #1016 |
Join Date: Jan 2009
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I find the beginning of Rainer Maria Rilke's Duino Elegies (Duineser Elegien) really beautiful - if not terrible.
"Who, if I cried out, would hear me among the Angelic Orders? And even if one were to suddenly take me to its heart, I would vanish into its stronger existence. For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror, that we are still able to bear, and we revere it so, because it calmly disdains to destroy us. Every Angel is terror." (Translation by A. S. Kline) Spoiler for German original:
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2012-01-21, 14:41 | Link #1018 |
Extra Superior Otaku
Join Date: Sep 2008
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"I saw my death in my dreams.
Many times. But I didn't die. I was better than my fears. Better than my nightmares. But to find out, I had to face them all. I had to get through the worst to prove I was the best. That was my reality." Ace Combat assault horizon |
2012-01-21, 17:04 | Link #1019 |
Onani Master
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"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" - Winston Churchill
Really like this one; "Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is." - Vince Lombardi Here's one I've snagged from Muv-Luv Alternative and I'll do well to remember it in the Army. "Those who show others the way must not avert their eyes from the weight of responsibility." - Koubuin Yuuhi
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Last edited by grylsyjaeger; 2012-01-23 at 03:58. |
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