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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 19 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 55 | 43.65% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 39 | 30.95% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 22 | 17.46% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 7 | 5.56% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 0.79% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 0.79% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 0.79% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-05-14, 07:09 | Link #142 |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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I guess this marks the end of Kiritsugu's back story.
Man, I knew something was going to happen to Natalia on that plane, given by the abundance of death flags she managed to trip by that point, but I never figured that it would be Kiritsugu who would pull the trigger. But really. Something like this would have eventually happened regardless due to their directly opposing ideals. Natalia's priority is self-preservation. As such, in times of danger she would prioritize her own life above anyone else. In contrast, Kiritsugu's priority is saving as many lives as he can, albeit doing so in a somewhat morally questionable manner. In other words, he will do exactly what is necessary to save the most lives in a pinch, regardless of who he kills or what he has to do. In a sense, you could call their philosophies to be direct opposites. A clash between the two was only inevitable. After this, I find that calling Kiritsugu a monster or machine is much closer to the truth than it initially seems.
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2012-05-14, 08:37 | Link #143 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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20m while flying at over 100kph at least. Yes, it'll be like hitting concrete.
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2012-05-14, 10:31 | Link #145 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tennessee
Age: 36
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Wait... Kiritsugu's in his late 20s during the main story? I was guessing very early 40s. (I thought he was born around 1954, that Part 1 of the flashback was during the mid-1960s, and that Part 2 was during his late teens or early twenties, so about the 1973-1976 range.) My idea of the timeline is all messed up. ._.
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2012-05-14, 11:33 | Link #146 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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As for survival, Natalie would go for maximum survival rate which is to try to land the plane and let the ghouls get out. Kiritsugu couldn't allow that. |
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2012-05-14, 12:20 | Link #147 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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the main show is set in 1994 if kiri was 12 to 14 in 1978 then he would be about 28 to 30 in 1994.
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2012-05-14, 12:54 | Link #148 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I wonder about some of Natalia's thoughts. A few pages ago, a poster mentioned that, in the novel, she thought Kiri was waiting in a NY hotel when they had their last conversation. But, if the conversation they had was a faithful adaption, then she clearly expected him to do something rather than sit around and wait anxiously.
Was she expecting him to have a plan to extract her after landing, before blowing up the plane? Was she waiting for him to tell her he was going to kill her to save the city? |
2012-05-14, 17:48 | Link #151 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Good god, Fate zero, you just love to stamp on my heart, huh?
Poor Natalia indeed. But even more, poor Kiritsugu. This is where your unshakeable ideals take you Kerry. And what a GREAT catharsis at the end. At that point I was worried he wasn't going to show any emotion whatsoever, which was a stark contrast to how I was feeling, so it was gratifying as hell to see him just burst like that. And those twisted, shattered expressions his face kept making, let you know just how much he was being torn apart inside by trying to hold steady to such unnatural ideals even in the face of such agony of losing his loved one. But he has to, because that is what's "right," after all. Of course, he does, but that cracked, my-soul-has-been-murdered look in his eyes, and his attempts at reassuring and reaffirming himself by talking to "Shirley," not to mention how he screams at himself to shut up once he starts crying, as if he's not allowed to feel grief when he's just upheld his beliefs and saved innocent lives, it's gut-wrenching stuff. Must go watch happy things now T_T |
2012-05-14, 19:22 | Link #152 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
Spoiler for Long:
Got a little carried away there, but that's just how complex and fascinating Kiritsugu's character is. Speaking of which, this is definitely a good time for those who haven't checked out Season 1's Sound Drama to do so, since it shows the events which took place in Kiritsugu's life between this episode and the beginning of the series, which definitely add to his character (as well as Iri's). A shame they couldn't animate that as well. |
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2012-05-15, 02:48 | Link #155 |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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Indeed. He is a "hero" in the truest sense.
He is literally a person who lives for the sake others. He is willing to make any sacrifice if it means saving the most lives. He is an individual so enamored by this particular brand of "heroism" that he is nearly devoid of any ego, which is to say that he lacks a sense of "self". He made himself into a machine which devotes all its energies to save as many lives as he can. Simply put, he is a manifestation of altruism taken to its logical extreme. I won't comment on the the pros and cons of his utilitarian approach to problem solving, but all I can say is that it is but a product of the doctrine of extreme altruism he has held all his life. Perhaps the only anchor that keeps him from losing himself completely is Irisviel and Ilya, and I'm not even sure of that. I just find it ironic that the more he dedicates himself to his altruistic ideals, the less human he becomes. As he discards more and more of his "ego" to achieve his goals, the more he resembles a machine. Natalia even called this ability to dissociate his "ego" from his actions a unique talent of his.
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Last edited by Qilin; 2012-05-15 at 03:02. |
2012-05-15, 11:47 | Link #158 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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People always miss the main point, don't they?
groaning about all the alternative methods for saving Natalie is useless to understand what Gen wants to say in these two eps, he wanted to ask the audiences (readers):"You are willing to sacrifice one to save many people. BUT, what if the "one" is your loved one and the "many" is mere strangers?" Yes, I believe that are many ways to bring Natalie back from the situation but this is dodging the question and leave it unanswered Gen really wanted to slam the question onto our face and force us to answer it thinking about the plot-hole and alternatives is ok but we should focus on what he wanted to present he also showed us his opinion that both "yes" (kill Natalie) or "no" (let Shirley go) will make him (us) suffer then, what is that "justice"? where that "justice" is found? Should we still stick with that "justice"? this is only an age-old moral dilemma and re-told by Gen and I think he is good at doing it 10/10 |
2012-05-15, 12:08 | Link #159 |
Crax
Author
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
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The fact that he couldn't be proud with his own chosen path is the biggest flaw of Kiritsugu. From hindsight, I admire criminals and villains that they could just follow their heart's desire and don't give a shit even if it meant horrible consequences. How many of us could actually do or accomplish what we wanted? Kiritsugu regretted every step he takes, and that is simply not something human is designed to endure forever.
Spoiler for UBW spoiler:
Btw, my answer would be my loved ones first of course. Hardly a hero stance, but that's what it means to be human. And sometimes being human can be more heroic than any hero will ever be.
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2012-05-15, 12:21 | Link #160 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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The traditional Western superheroes tend to try to save their loved ones first with the belief that if they can't even save one person, how can they save everyone?
When they fail to save that one person....bad things happen. Or they spend effort to change time and space to make it so they can save that person. Except when it is used as a defining moment. The moment of regret, or push that makes them a superhero. The "never again" stance. Or the "this is the reason I fight" motto. By traditional I mean the older superheroes. Superman, Batman, Spiderman...that lot.
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