Ever17 -The Out of Infinity-

[luckyovermind]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

:O very interesting... so to get the bad ending I'll just have to try to hit on both girls? and also..

Spoiler:

how can tsugumi die from TB? She has the Cure thing and she still dies? :S

and will there be some album pictures only can be unlocked by the bad endings?

Spoiler:

Of course she can't, she died of another reason (or so we think, she may end up surviving if you know what I mean)

and yes, you will get new CGs.

[kgptzac]

Originally Posted by luckyovermind

Spoiler:

Of course she can't, she died of another reason (or so we think, she may end up surviving if you know what I mean)

and yes, you will get new CGs.

>>><<< what's the reason? final revelation please!

[luckyovermind]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

>>><<< what's the reason? final revelation please!

Oh come on, it's not that hard to get to the ending yourself is it

Spoiler:

Tsugumi left the room (the one in the deep sea laboratory with 3 oxygen medical sleeping box), and then we heard the water rushing in outside the room. Hence we suppose she drowned. Then came the bloody confession by You.

[kgptzac]

Spoiler:

sounds yummy ._. it's kinda funny... Tsugumi wanted to die so I guess it's a peaceful ending for her :P another thing i noticed is that in Tsugumi's good ending, Takeshi and Tsugumi got a disk from Pipi the dog... which I guess it implies that Tsugumi and Sora both survive contrast to where if Takeshi choose to end with Sora which... both Takeshi gets to play with water forever and Sora's memory is lost?

I probably will to see what happens in the bad ending... though I don't know why You confessed... I mean come on she never liked Takeshi until the moment she dies...? >_>

[G005]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

Spoiler:

sounds yummy ._. it's kinda funny... Tsugumi wanted to die so I guess it's a peaceful ending for her :P another thing i noticed is that in Tsugumi's good ending, Takeshi and Tsugumi got a disk from Pipi the dog... which I guess it implies that Tsugumi and Sora both survive contrast to where if Takeshi choose to end with Sora which... both Takeshi gets to play with water forever and Sora's memory is lost?

I probably will to see what happens in the bad ending... though I don't know why You confessed... I mean come on she never liked Takeshi until the moment she dies...? >_>

Spoiler:

a) Tsugumi is conflicted with regard to whether she wants to live or die. At any rate, I wouldn't describe her death as a peaceful ending, even if it seems to be her only solution.

b) Yes, a backup of Sora's data has been preserved in the Tsugumi ending. However, we never learn if the disk is ever recovered.

c) She's a secret admirer =) Some people also have a tendency to appear mean/indifferent toward those whom they're attracted to, either as a way to avoid feeling awkward or to gain attention.

[AvatarST]

Spoiler for Tsugumi in the bad ending:

She actually dies? I thought she couldn't. I never saw that bad ending, so...Cure should keep her alive till she makes it to the surface. :x

And regarding BW...

Spoiler for Coco's ending:

People can like it or hate it, but the truth is that it was foreshadowed through the whole plot and it made sense with the things that happened before as well as with one of the major themes of the game; moreover, in that ending, we see that bunch of nice people finally reaching happiness. Of course, this last one criteria is a completely personal opinion, as some people prefer tragic endings. But I don't think it can be called a cop out or not making sense, since, well...it was there in all 4 scenarios.

Unrealistic? True, but Ever17 wasn't realistic to begin with.

[G005]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

Spoiler for Tsugumi in the bad ending:

She actually dies? I thought she couldn't. I never saw that bad ending, so...Cure should keep her alive till she makes it to the surface. :x

Spoiler:

What if Tsugumi were to remain underwater for too long a period of time (perhaps crushed or pinned by something. They're also so deep underwater that making it to the surface would be quite a feat)? She can survive for much longer than anyone else, but there're still limits.

[Shouta]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

Spoiler for Tsugumi in the bad ending:

She actually dies? I thought she couldn't. I never saw that bad ending, so...Cure should keep her alive till she makes it to the surface. :x

Spoiler:

Tsugumi can die. The Cure Virus grants incredible regenerative powers and pretty much eternal life but only if the carrier has the will to. If any Cure carrier reaches the point where they're in a bottomless pit of despair and has no hope to cling on to, they can die. It's central to Tsugumi's story and is the main conflict she has.

In all versions of Takeshi's storyline, it seems Tsugumi does fall in love with Takeshi and he becomes her reason to live. When the bad ending occurs, you can assume that she dies alongside everyone because she finally lost the will to live.

It's quite possible for her to go from the bottom of the ocean (you even see an example with Takeshi doing it) to the surface via the Cure Virus if not too much damage had occurred. After the carrier loses their will to live, you can probably assume that the body decays like any other.

[kgptzac]

Spoiler:

i agree with the theory of Tsugumi is "die-able", but what I disagree is where she would just die if she wanted. When Tsugumi confessed to Takeshi on the Quelle, she mentioned that how many time she "should have" died. So the Tsugumi's ultimate death is not where she wants to live or not, it probably come down to how extreme the circumstances is. She probably can die of drowning in the infirmary room because there is no surface so she can reach... anyway i won't go there cus the creators of the game probably left it overly vague (like most of the things i've seen so far in the game)...

i think Tsugumi only gained the will to live in her good ending with Takeshi (where takeshi dies himself ._.)... i haven't finished Coco's ending and I am already sensing there is gonna be a nasty jump of logic in the end... I assume that in Sora's good ending, Tsugumi is saved along others, she doesn't get to choose, I guess; in the bad ending, as is revealed, seems to me that tsugumi lost her will to live when she goes up to LeMU from IBF.

From coco's path, Tsugumi is confirmed that even she doesn't know whether she want to live for herself, she tries to save others with all her might (takeshi and coco)... i personally think it's very interesting.

[kgptzac]

Wow

I just finished Coco's ending and it is truely... mind-blasting in a positive sense. The game indeed is one, if not THE, masterpiece of its kind. I think the ending is very satisfying on terms of both explaining the plot line and giving a closure.

Spoiler for analyzing Coco's ending!:

Though I guessed from various spoiler that the two You's are different persons of each arc, I never thought of the self-fulfilling prophecy part. Basically I think BW is an entity that exist in the 4th dimension. The 4 good endings are the timespaces where partial information are revealed--for the story's sake that is. I mean if player IS Blick Winkel, then "jumping" from one timespace to another is sponteneous because only then the true ending is revealed in Coco's path, making it the "main" timespace.

So the confusing part is... if there is more than one timespace, as the story suggest, where whenever a person choose A instead of B will brach out two possible futures thus the current timespace divides into two. Clearly BW has the ability to observe, if not interfere, with all 4 senarios. But in the end, the inversed cause-and-effect gave me the impression that BW is also a subject under the rule of time. Really, if he's from the 4d "world", and have the ability to jump into different timespaces, how can that be? Suppose if Takeshi and Coco are saved in 2017 instead of 2034, how can that automatically invalidates BW's interference? BW already existed and influnced at least ONE timespace, and if he jumps to the past of the same timespace and change history, the effect of that probably would be a good happy ending for everybody--of another timespace.

Predestination and quantum theory can not be compatible... at least that's what I believe.

I think Coco also "almost" achieved her acsention because obviously she speaks with the Hotuko of the future. In here the story reinforce its predestination concept where the future is already decided... or else Coco could do something else to help the situation instead of being silly all the time. At least in 2017, she should have foreseen that she is infected with TB and will eventually brought to IBF, even if she can't do anything to stop the illness, she could at least warn takeshi and tsugumi not going back up to LeMU again so everybody can be saved...

Apart from these logic holes, I enjoyed the game sooo much that i can't stop thinking about it, lol now it's time to list my questions:

1. How did Kaburaki lost his memory? It says nothing in the ending though. Oh btw, nothing (BW has done) caused Kaburaki to remember his name in Coco's path year 2017, so compare with other senarios... I think this fact reinforced the idea of alternate reality--different time space.

2. Why BW physically takes over Hokuto in 2034? Is it because of predestination "that has to happen" or there are some specific reason for that?

3. In the beginning, both Kaburaki and Hokuto got tricked by Tsugumi, assume that in the Kid's perspective, the player is in 2034 instead of 2017. I mean it doesn't make a lot of sense when Tsugumi is actively playing the script. I mean I just don't believe she wears the Lemur suit TWICE, and both time she tricked a teenage boy of putting wear it for her... I dont' know when, in 2034, would Tsugumi starts to suspect Hokuto to be her son, but I'm almost sure it's not from day one.

4. There's a scene in Kid's perspective where Hokuto passed out in the Lemur suit. He somehow was walking in the evacuated LeMU and jumped into the pool of the resting area... and later he said that he must have lost his memory when he "fell" into the pool.... HELLO? Isn't that strange? It is impossible for Hokuto leave the infirmary, walking around be emo and jump into a pool without somebody noticing especially when it is evacuated... That part just doesn't make sense to me.

5. just wtf is it suppose to mean with Tsugumi's epilogue?

6. The life reading... Assumed it's not broken so it actually serves a purpose in the plot. Ok I don't know if teh life reading would cover Lemu, Himmel, IBF, or any combination... It doesn't make sense. For example, in 2017, the reading stays at 6. That makes sense if you count You'haru's dad down in HIMMEL. But what does it mean when it jump between 5 and 7?? Also in 2034, suppose when everything was happening, Takeshi and Coco was hypernating down there, the readin can't possibily be 6. If the life reading is supposed to detect IBF, then it should be 7; if not, it should be 5. Why was it jumping between 5 and 7? and stay at 6?? Also I found it amusing that the change of life reading is not reflected on the system map which tracks everybody's location... that part is nonsense.

those are my questions.... btw does anybody have a text version of the timeline presented in the final ending clip? it just roll too fast i couldn't keep up, lol.

[luckyovermind]

Spoiler for final ending:

Below are all my personal interpretation.

1. How did Kaburaki lost his memory? It says nothing in the ending though. Oh btw, nothing (BW has done) caused Kaburaki to remember his name in Coco's path year 2017, so compare with other senarios... I think this fact reinforced the idea of alternate reality--different time space.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
He just happened to have a short term memory loss, maybe he remembered everything soon after the escape

2. Why BW physically takes over Hokuto in 2034? Is it because of predestination "that has to happen" or there are some specific reason for that?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Because BW (the player) is trying to play Kaburaki's route. However since 2034 lemu is so similar to 2017 lemu, BW made a mistake

3. In the beginning, both Kaburaki and Hokuto got tricked by Tsugumi, assume that in the Kid's perspective, the player is in 2034 instead of 2017. I mean it doesn't make a lot of sense when Tsugumi is actively playing the script. I mean I just don't believe she wears the Lemur suit TWICE, and both time she tricked a teenage boy of putting wear it for her... I dont' know when, in 2034, would Tsugumi starts to suspect Hokuto to be her son, but I'm almost sure it's not from day one.
--------------------------------------------------
Tsugumi can not tolerate excessive sun exposure, hence she needs something to cover up her whole body. Besides that, the Leiblich Pharmaceutical is looking for her. Hence the only thing that won't arouse suspicion is a Lemur suit. And she unintentionally did the same thing twice because she has done it before. XD

4. There's a scene in Kid's perspective where Hokuto passed out in the Lemur suit. He somehow was walking in the evacuated LeMU and jumped into the pool of the resting area... and later he said that he must have lost his memory when he "fell" into the pool.... HELLO? Isn't that strange? It is impossible for Hokuto leave the infirmary, walking around be emo and jump into a pool without somebody noticing especially when it is evacuated... That part just doesn't make sense to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------
He was dreaming XD
BW can only physically take over somebody when they lost their conscious (around the choice of "I..."~"I myself...")


5. just wtf is it suppose to mean with Tsugumi's epilogue?
---------------------------------------------------------------
People might get spoiled if they found out there wasn't a Tsugumi's epilogue before playing the coco's route.


6. The life reading...
---------------------------------------------------------------
It's a mystery...
the life reading won't count anything in HIMMEL or IBF, I think.
But, the life reading detect BW.
The number 6 (sora, coco, takeshi, tsugumi, kaburaki, you) may seem normal to other people, but at that time only sora knows that she won't be detected. The extra one (BW, and IN THE SAME ROOM as shown on the system map!!) made sora go into a panic and make the system unstable. XD
As for 2034, the reading was manipulated to be the same as 2017 to trick BW.


btw does anybody have a text version of the timeline presented in the final ending clip? it just roll too fast i couldn't keep up, lol.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
from wiki:
MOV_END.e17, the ending movie, is playable in a media player. So maybe you can pause and look for yourself?

[kgptzac]

ah thx for answering :P here goes my opinions:

Spoiler:

1. O.O poor shounen... the production team didn't even give him a reason lol

2. maybe there's an explanation without "players" let's assume Blick Winkel is from a higher dimension (which reflect as we players play the game, which is n-1 dimension). it has to make some sort of internal sense... let's see... well... i think it is more like "this is fated to happen" kind of thing, at least You'haru's mastermind rituralistic action of recreating the accident... lol...

3. it most likely to be a hole where KID probably didn't find a way to make around... it's thin plot-wise. the plot didn't say anything? i thought i missed it.

4. i thought about the possibility of he was dreaming. but when he said that as teh reason he lost his memory... You didn't say nothing... :/ strange, it should be impossible for her to not notice the incoherance.

5. yeah... people got lazy when they were making Tsugumi's epi... but still i think the German words may mean something? It is meant to seen after everything was over... so... >_<

6. probably just a red herring now :P

----------------------------------------------------------
another mystery: who the hell is Tom Faiblin?? He was born on Dec 3, 1992, a year older than Tsugumi... Tom saved his little sister from drowning in a lake in 2003 when he was 10 years old. Then in 2005, he meets Dr. Cabin at a US hospital, who would later propose the Cure hypothesis.

it is totally random... I thought about the possibility that Tom may be the kid who was with Tsugumi when after the accident she had when she was a young girl. But it did not mention Tom was being detained along with Tsugumi and I don't remember well what was said in the plot either.

[luckyovermind]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

Spoiler:

1. O.O poor shounen... the production team didn't even give him a reason lol

2. maybe there's an explanation without "players" let's assume Blick Winkel is from a higher dimension (which reflect as we players play the game, which is n-1 dimension). it has to make some sort of internal sense... let's see... well... i think it is more like "this is fated to happen" kind of thing, at least You'haru's mastermind rituralistic action of recreating the accident... lol...

3. it most likely to be a hole where KID probably didn't find a way to make around... it's thin plot-wise. the plot didn't say anything? i thought i missed it.

4. i thought about the possibility of he was dreaming. but when he said that as teh reason he lost his memory... You didn't say nothing... :/ strange, it should be impossible for her to not notice the incoherance.

5. yeah... people got lazy when they were making Tsugumi's epi... but still i think the German words may mean something? It is meant to seen after everything was over... so... >_<

6. probably just a red herring now :P

----------------------------------------------------------
another mystery: who the hell is Tom Faiblin?? He was born on Dec 3, 1992, a year older than Tsugumi... Tom saved his little sister from drowning in a lake in 2003 when he was 10 years old. Then in 2005, he meets Dr. Cabin at a US hospital, who would later propose the Cure hypothesis.

it is totally random... I thought about the possibility that Tom may be the kid who was with Tsugumi when after the accident she had when she was a young girl. But it did not mention Tom was being detained along with Tsugumi and I don't remember well what was said in the plot either.

Spoiler:

If I remembered correctly, the Tom Faiblin story was mentioned in Never7, which is the first game in the infinity series. (and ever17 is the second story, remember11 - 3rd and hopefully 12riven - 4th. sorry, no english version )

Tom saved his little sister from drowning in a lake in 2003 when he was 10 years old. And concerning the circumstances, it was a quite impossible act. He later claimed that he could cure/save anybody in the world, and people think he is mad. In fact, he is, somehow, the first person who got infected by the CURE virus. Tsugumi had an accident and lived in the same hospital as Tom. And she was infected there as well.
About Dr. Cabin's Cure hypothesis, I won't say anything since it will spoil never7's story It's totally unrelated to Ever17 anyway.

[Supergrunch]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

Spoiler:

2. maybe there's an explanation without "players" let's assume Blick Winkel is from a higher dimension (which reflect as we players play the game, which is n-1 dimension). it has to make some sort of internal sense... let's see... well... i think it is more like "this is fated to happen" kind of thing, at least You'haru's mastermind rituralistic action of recreating the accident... lol...

Spoiler:

Why should we want a different explanation? Breaking the fourth wall works perfectly, and it is nice and poetic... half of the events that happened in the game were designed so that you would play it.

[kgptzac]

lol.... maybe i'm too used to the incoming twists and still want more! :X

and luckyovermind... can you spoil me more about what happened in the previous installation? If it gives a history of Cure then I think it is useful to hear about to give a broader understanding with the Infinite universe.

Spoiler:

I want to know if the story explicitly stated where how Kaburaki lost his memory? Or it is left for us to imagine? Also about the Kid jumping into the pool part... I don't see how that contribute to the plot as a whole.. enlighten me pls :P

edit: same goes with the life reading part.... did the final ending give teh explanation or it is something intentionly left vague?

[Shouta]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

Spoiler:

edit: same goes with the life reading part.... did the final ending give teh explanation or it is something intentionly left vague?

Spoiler for Life Readings:

It's likely that the indicator is catching BW and Hokuto on the perspective flip. I intrepreted it as that way. BW is seeing the story from Takeshi's perspective so he would account for number 6. The fluctuation could be including Hokuto and when BW's link with Takeshi is weaker.

[kgptzac]

another question regarding the "kick the can" scene...

Spoiler:

ok I guess it is the feakiest scene in the game, i attribute, to the game as a whole... >_> anyway, you know when Kid (Kaburaki)'s turn to be "it", he actually... doesn't know he was the "it"?! He suddenly appear where everyone else is and claim that he is not counting, while a voice speaking "98, 99" in the background. I played the Coco's path from both Takeshi and the Kid's perspective until that point... While on Takeshi, when Kaburaki appear to be cluless on who was counting, the perspective suddenly changed to 2034's kick the can scene where same kind of thing happened (the can mysteriously being kicked), but the extra voice thing didn't occur in 2034.

So is the game hinting Tsugumi to be the person kicked the can? I don't think so. Before I got to Coco's path, i thought that the "ghost" or whatever that is causing trouble kicked the can... Of course that is not the case.

Who was the voice counting in 2017? Why Kaburaki met with the others and claim not knowing he was "it"? Who was kicking the can from both times?

[luckyovermind]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

another question regarding the "kick the can" scene...

Spoiler:

ok I guess it is the feakiest scene in the game, i attribute, to the game as a whole... >_> anyway, you know when Kid (Kaburaki)'s turn to be "it", he actually... doesn't know he was the "it"?! He suddenly appear where everyone else is and claim that he is not counting, while a voice speaking "98, 99" in the background. I played the Coco's path from both Takeshi and the Kid's perspective until that point... While on Takeshi, when Kaburaki appear to be cluless on who was counting, the perspective suddenly changed to 2034's kick the can scene where same kind of thing happened (the can mysteriously being kicked), but the extra voice thing didn't occur in 2034.

So is the game hinting Tsugumi to be the person kicked the can? I don't think so. Before I got to Coco's path, i thought that the "ghost" or whatever that is causing trouble kicked the can... Of course that is not the case.

Who was the voice counting in 2017? Why Kaburaki met with the others and claim not knowing he was "it"? Who was kicking the can from both times?

Spoiler:

About Never7, anything that is related to ever17 was explained in the earlier post. You don't have to know that much, cure virus didn't appear in never7, it was a completely different story concerning time swap

The kicking of the can is one of the biggest mystery, I've seen people trying to explain it in terms of quantum theory and theory of realitivity about time and space being twisted (Read: nonsense). And it's not entertaining anymore

[AvatarST]

Spoiler for kick the can:

I don't think that anyone kicked the can in 2017, just that Blick Winkel (us, the player), heard the sound of the can being kicked in 2034. That's the most sense I can make out of it anyway.

[kgptzac]

Spoiler for kick the cannnnnn:

everybody heard the can being kicked and ran... therefore it's just not in our heads :P and so is the voice thing in 2017... suppose it is from another time space... only Bw and coco should be able to hear it though... i'd like to hear about the space warping theory because nobody kicked the can in both 2017 and 2034.

also, anyone noticed the incoherance of Kaburaki's name in the final ending clip? i mean in cast list he is called Ryogo and in the timeline he is called something else :X

edit: another seemingly unrelated item in the timeline. In 2019, after TB runs rampant in the world, April 1, "a group of students from a certain university begin a special training seminar on an isolated island" and on April 7, the seminar ends.... sounds like the first installment?