AnimeSuki Forums

Kaijo · 2012-11-18, 23:42

It's Phantom Blazer, actually, and it's a spell Teana actually knew quite well by that episode. We just don't actually see her learn it, or be in a position to use it. In fact, take a closer look at that episode, and you can see Teana's illusion with the circle ring, as if she was about to use it. Nanoha saw it, and didn't have a problem with that. Vita also made the comment about Teana's multi-shots, something about how the control was good, but they were lacking power.

So power itself wasn't the issue. Nanoha was training Teana to be a center guard shooter, to work on her shooting magic. It's because Teana disregarded her shooting skills and went into a half-ass physical dagger attack was when "it became dangerous." But as Nanoha noted later, Teana wasn't entirely wrong, as they planned to teach her dagger skills to give her some close range melee ability; it just wasn't time for it yet.

Auxilism · 2012-11-19, 00:53

Ah, my bad.

Quote:

half-ass physical dagger

So now magic can manifest into a physical form?

Kaijo · 2012-11-19, 08:24

Well, I suppose it is still technically a magical form, but for all intents and purposes, it can be physical. It's similar to Fate's Zanbar sword, for instance. Capable of acting like physical matter.

Keroko · 2012-11-19, 13:06

Magic has always been able to do manifest into physical forms. Vita's projectiles, for example. Or Signum's extendo-sword. Or heck, Barrier Jackets.

Nanya01 · 2012-11-19, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Magic has always been able to do manifest into physical forms. Vita's projectiles, for example. Or Signum's extendo-sword. Or heck, Barrier Jackets.

How about RH? It was just a gem until Nanoha thought up the staff and buster forms.

Auxilism · 2012-11-19, 14:50

Ah, I meant that magical damage can turn into physical damage in which it does not care what it's hitting and penertates everything. It is possible from Teana's blade example but that's not supposed to be how people use magic. If they were more skilled at it maybe they could do it without over-exterting themselves. Of course, magic can be used to alter physical forms (which I think is what Signum does for her sword, if I'm wrong just say so), which would retain the deadly factor. Another way for magic to be deadly would be using it to blast a person into physical objects which would then kill but the blast itself is not supposed to do that.

Arkeus · 2012-11-21, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhalo191

Ah, I meant that magical damage can turn into physical damage in which it does not care what it's hitting and penertates everything. It is possible from Teana's blade example but that's not supposed to be how people use magic. If they were more skilled at it maybe they could do it without over-exterting themselves. Of course, magic can be used to alter physical forms (which I think is what Signum does for her sword, if I'm wrong just say so), which would retain the deadly factor. Another way for magic to be deadly would be using it to blast a person into physical objects which would then kill but the blast itself is not supposed to do that.

As far as i know, it's the opposite. Magic blasts by default kill people, but actual mages have learned to create a stun settings. However, very few mages can sue that stun settings on their more powerful spells (Nanoha is an exceptions about this).

Kaijo · 2012-11-21, 18:47

There is no evidence either way on this.

Although common wisdom would suggest that the effect of the spell on a person would depend on the amount of magic pumped into it, and the surface area of the contact point. The difference between punching someone, or shooting them with a gun, as it were. If I'm a relatively weak mage and fire off a shot, it may only push someone back or lightly stun them. If I pump a lot of magic into it, I can probably vaporize someone with sheer force alone.

And it is taken for granted that spells can be specifically designed to kill, maim, knock out, etc. I'm just talking on a general level.

Keroko · 2012-11-21, 18:57

Except that "magic damage" is an actual term used to indicate non-lethal damage in StrikerS, particularly by Subaru during her battle with Ginga. There is a difference between "magical" and "physical" damage.

But it gets even weirder. "Magical" damage can affect non-living objects while only knocking out living ones. This explains how a blast that obliterates half a building does little more than knock out the target.

It doesn't help that the consistency in this regard is a tad wonky either.

Sunder the Gold · 2012-11-21, 20:28

Such as Reinforce's attacks, which DON'T cause any damage to the physical surroundings, but would cause unknown amounts of pain and harm to any mage or living creature.

In the first two episodes, Yuuno's fields did not prevent the Jewel Seed monster from causing real damage to the physical surroundings. Yet Reinforce's Starlight Breaker and Diabolic Emission leave all skyscrapers untouched.

There are no explanations for these inconsistencies, though one could guess a few.

For example, in the second episode, Yuuno was running on fumes; perhaps he could not afford to spare fuel for a "preserve physical surroundings" function, and focused on "hide from normals" function.

Reinforce had power to splurge, and perhaps spared Uminari City immediate destruction because she still cared enough about life that she wouldn't kill them herself, even if the Defense Program would do so afterwards.

Rising Dragon · 2012-11-21, 20:39

I just chalk it up to magic being magic.

Sunder the Gold · 2012-11-21, 21:24

Magic A is Magic A!

Kaijo · 2012-11-22, 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Except that "magic damage" is an actual term used to indicate non-lethal damage in StrikerS, particularly by Subaru during her battle with Ginga. There is a difference between "magical" and "physical" damage.

But it gets even weirder. "Magical" damage can affect non-living objects while only knocking out living ones. This explains how a blast that obliterates half a building does little more than knock out the target.

It doesn't help that the consistency in this regard is a tad wonky either.

You said it yourself... the consistency is wonky. There is magical damage, but there is no denying that magical has very real kinetic and physical effects. And kinetic energy can knock the wind out of you, or kill you, depending on how it is applied. Yes, magic can screw with those physics, but there is no denying it *can* have relativistic physical effects (Nanoha getting knocked onto her ass in the first movie, the first time she shot her buster).

This is going too far into a theoretical discussion on magic, though. I just wanted to point out that magic has had real physical effects, and that there was no evidence as far as what the default was.

And you could say that Nanoha and Subaru deliberately train to use their magic non-lethally, being good guys. What we'd need, is to see someone learn to use magic on their own and then randomly blast someone, and see if they were surprised at whether it killed or not. Or have Nanoha or another teacher explain how important it is for good guys to carefully control their magic with stun properties, so they don't kill someone.

Sansker · 2012-12-19, 13:10

This might be a little old and settle business but I think there is a scene, in StrikerS, were they did explain that. When Nanoha blast Teana with the CrossFire. It was later mention by Shamal how Nanoha is able to control the effect of any magic bullet attack she use to stun and not cause real harm (It was also mention that the reason why Teana faint from the morning until the night was because she wasn’t getting enough sleep in the past few days to train more). So this was Nanoha’s way of teaching Teana to not screw with her own magic bullets which were level as lethal since Subaru almost get hit by one and Vita tell her that if the thing hit her it would be lethal.

They never go in to detail of what is what but I think it can be assume magic does kill unless you control how the spell will affect the body that hits. Still doesn’t explain how is that magic can break stone, metal and almost anything but not make the poor humans on their path just a pile of dust but is the most close canon explanation we have

Keroko · 2012-12-19, 17:49

To be specific, Shamal mentioned how Nanoha was extremely skilled in making non-lethal bullets, so it in fact implies the very opposite. Magic is dangerous unless you know what you're doing.

Sansker · 2012-12-19, 17:57

Indeed but they never go any way detail and the fact is never brought up again so that should be all. You can regulate them if they are lethal or no, it just feels they could add a little since that isn’t too much to hold on to and doesn’t explain the difference between magic damage and physical damage and how that affects you if you are and if you aren’t a mage.

Akiyoshi · 2012-12-20, 01:48

that actually proves how darn skilled Nanoha is with her magic, she can set her magical blasts to be harmless to living beings but being still capable of totally anhilating large and heavily reinforced physical structures ....(and somehow left the target's clothes untouched xD).

Sansker · 2012-12-20, 19:37

Or maybe is because we never go about such details on the series. I mean so far I don't think there is an explanation on why some people are mage and have Linker Cores and why some other people aren't. Or there is one?

Kaijo · 2012-12-20, 21:23

There are plenty of details out there in various extra materials. You might want to check the FAQ thread.

Sansker · 2012-12-20, 21:31

I mean interesting details. I see a few of them and aren't that much.

2012-11-21, 20:39	Link #4171
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	I just chalk it up to magic being magic. __________________

2012-12-19, 13:10	Link #4174
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	This might be a little old and settle business but I think there is a scene, in StrikerS, were they did explain that. When Nanoha blast Teana with the CrossFire. It was later mention by Shamal how Nanoha is able to control the effect of any magic bullet attack she use to stun and not cause real harm (It was also mention that the reason why Teana faint from the morning until the night was because she wasn’t getting enough sleep in the past few days to train more). So this was Nanoha’s way of teaching Teana to not screw with her own magic bullets which were level as lethal since Subaru almost get hit by one and Vita tell her that if the thing hit her it would be lethal. They never go in to detail of what is what but I think it can be assume magic does kill unless you control how the spell will affect the body that hits. Still doesn’t explain how is that magic can break stone, metal and almost anything but not make the poor humans on their path just a pile of dust but is the most close canon explanation we have __________________

2012-12-19, 17:57	Link #4176
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Indeed but they never go any way detail and the fact is never brought up again so that should be all. You can regulate them if they are lethal or no, it just feels they could add a little since that isn’t too much to hold on to and doesn’t explain the difference between magic damage and physical damage and how that affects you if you are and if you aren’t a mage. __________________

2012-12-20, 01:48	Link #4177
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	that actually proves how darn skilled Nanoha is with her magic, she can set her magical blasts to be harmless to living beings but being still capable of totally anhilating large and heavily reinforced physical structures ....(and somehow left the target's clothes untouched xD). __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2012-12-20, 19:37	Link #4178
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Or maybe is because we never go about such details on the series. I mean so far I don't think there is an explanation on why some people are mage and have Linker Cores and why some other people aren't. Or there is one? __________________

2012-11-18, 23:42	Link #4161
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	It's Phantom Blazer, actually, and it's a spell Teana actually knew quite well by that episode. We just don't actually see her learn it, or be in a position to use it. In fact, take a closer look at that episode, and you can see Teana's illusion with the circle ring, as if she was about to use it. Nanoha saw it, and didn't have a problem with that. Vita also made the comment about Teana's multi-shots, something about how the control was good, but they were lacking power. So power itself wasn't the issue. Nanoha was training Teana to be a center guard shooter, to work on her shooting magic. It's because Teana disregarded her shooting skills and went into a half-ass physical dagger attack was when "it became dangerous." But as Nanoha noted later, Teana wasn't entirely wrong, as they planned to teach her dagger skills to give her some close range melee ability; it just wasn't time for it yet.

2012-11-19, 08:24	Link #4163
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	Well, I suppose it is still technically a magical form, but for all intents and purposes, it can be physical. It's similar to Fate's Zanbar sword, for instance. Capable of acting like physical matter.

2012-11-19, 13:06	Link #4164
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Magic has always been able to do manifest into physical forms. Vita's projectiles, for example. Or Signum's extendo-sword. Or heck, Barrier Jackets.

2012-11-21, 18:47	Link #4168
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	There is no evidence either way on this. Although common wisdom would suggest that the effect of the spell on a person would depend on the amount of magic pumped into it, and the surface area of the contact point. The difference between punching someone, or shooting them with a gun, as it were. If I'm a relatively weak mage and fire off a shot, it may only push someone back or lightly stun them. If I pump a lot of magic into it, I can probably vaporize someone with sheer force alone. And it is taken for granted that spells can be specifically designed to kill, maim, knock out, etc. I'm just talking on a general level.

2012-11-21, 18:57	Link #4169
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Except that "magic damage" is an actual term used to indicate non-lethal damage in StrikerS, particularly by Subaru during her battle with Ginga. There is a difference between "magical" and "physical" damage. But it gets even weirder. "Magical" damage can affect non-living objects while only knocking out living ones. This explains how a blast that obliterates half a building does little more than knock out the target. It doesn't help that the consistency in this regard is a tad wonky either.

2012-11-21, 20:28	Link #4170
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Such as Reinforce's attacks, which DON'T cause any damage to the physical surroundings, but would cause unknown amounts of pain and harm to any mage or living creature. In the first two episodes, Yuuno's fields did not prevent the Jewel Seed monster from causing real damage to the physical surroundings. Yet Reinforce's Starlight Breaker and Diabolic Emission leave all skyscrapers untouched. There are no explanations for these inconsistencies, though one could guess a few. For example, in the second episode, Yuuno was running on fumes; perhaps he could not afford to spare fuel for a "preserve physical surroundings" function, and focused on "hide from normals" function. Reinforce had power to splurge, and perhaps spared Uminari City immediate destruction because she still cared enough about life that she wouldn't kill them herself, even if the Defense Program would do so afterwards.

2012-11-21, 21:24	Link #4172
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Magic A is Magic A!

2012-12-19, 17:49	Link #4175
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	To be specific, Shamal mentioned how Nanoha was extremely skilled in making non-lethal bullets, so it in fact implies the very opposite. Magic is dangerous unless you know what you're doing.

2012-12-20, 21:23	Link #4179
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	There are plenty of details out there in various extra materials. You might want to check the FAQ thread.

2012-12-20, 21:31	Link #4180
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	I mean interesting details. I see a few of them and aren't that much. __________________