The Watchmen (film and graphic novel)

[BanishingBook]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

You know, I've never been much of a fan of Alan Moore's writing. They are definitely very engaging, cerebral stuff, but when it comes to comics and graphic novels, I much prefer Neil Gaiman's The Sandman.

I agree with you, and I hope when Neil decides to put Sandman on film. I do hope it wouldn't be made for fanboys of Sandman. Nevertheless, I would lay my expectations on Death and the High Cost of Living, haven't read this spin-off yet.

And oh yeah, about Watchmen, I haven't seen the movie but I have read the graphic novel, I don't think I can internalize every line and it's too much of a read in one sitting.

Every now and then I scan a snippet, especially where one part, according to Mr. Moore's Moon and Egyptian Grand Theater of Marvels, parallels inequity, yadda yadda I forgot what it was, now I'm going to look for it again.

[Jan-Poo]

I still haven't seen the movie. I liked the visual novel a lot, it's certainly one of my favourite and Alan Moore's best work imho.

However there's something that was really important about this story, at least for me, and i'm surprised noone even mentioned it so far. The first thing that makes watchmen different from the thousands of comic heroes out there is the way the "heroes" are depicted. Basically Moore takes all the mainstream stereotypes of superheroes and then he procedes to completely destroy them.

The Comedian is a sadistic bastard, he cares nothing about justice or the world

Doctor Manhattan is a superman without any moral and humanity left in him. He's more interested in the structure of molecule than on the lives of human beings. He doesn't give a shit about the wife he's spent his life with and rather choose a younger woman to be his partner once the wife grew too old for him.

Nite Owl is a loser a nerd an inept. His life is a total failure, he's depressed he's totally unsecure and totally lacks assertivness.

Ozymandias is a man who wears a mask of total perfection but deep inside he's corrupted to the core. He practically sold his ideals for the law of the market (then you learn more about him but that would a spoiler). It is expecially outstanding the scene where you see his action figures in embarassing positions. That's right Ozymandias sold his hero pride for money.

Rorschach is a retard, period. At first he looks like his way to solve things through violence is the result of some sort of reasoning, wrong, the truth is Rorschach doesn't know better than that. That doesn't mean he's not cool in his own way, but he's still ultimately pathetic like any other "heroes" in watchmen.

During the stories there are many other "heroes" that get mentioned and we learn about their sad sad lives. Moore really stresses out how preposterous is it for these men to put on weird colorfull clothes and go out on the streets beating the crap out of criminals. Some of them lived a conflictual homosexuality, some of them commited suicide.


Now what i really really really fear about this movie is that the Watchmen are represented as cool and awesome heroes as if they were the "justice League".
I still remind how another of Moore's comic "The league of extraordinary gentlemen" was totally butchered in that regard.

Allan quatermain was supposed to be a drug addicted loser, he became a badass hero in the movie.

The invisible man was a sadistic rapist without moral, he became a funny trickster but good at heart...

And what about Mina Harker? She was supposed to be a strict iron lady of victorian age. She actually was the leader in the comic, but no, in the movie she became a vampire whore, WTF?



Now what i want to know about watchmen is: are the "heroes" protraited as pathetic beings as it was meant to be or should i expect another "leagueof extraordinary gentlemen"?

[BanishingBook]

My bet is it's on the league, and oh you know, when the trailer for league of extraordinary gentlemen first came out, I thought the producers where making a wrestling movie. "LXG" tags with another brand name "Xpac"

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Now what i want to know about watchmen is: are the "heroes" protraited as pathetic beings as it was meant to be or should i expect another "leagueof extraordinary gentlemen"?

The movie is quite faithful to the comic overall. It's mostly a scene by scene transcription of it, although obviously a lot is cut out for time, and some things are changed to suit the cutting. Their basic characters are unchanged, but I suppose some of the evidence of their characterization is missing. They're certainly still flawed people though.

Edit: Oh, and there are some over-the-top fight scenes which may be thought to work against the character development/themes.

[Jan-Poo]

They're certainly still flawed people though.

Uhm if that's true i might consider to go watch the movie however i'm still skeptical. Even Peter Parker is "flawed" but that only give him an higher degree of humanity. The watchmen are a lot more "worse" than that.

[JubeiYamazaki]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Uhm if that's true i might consider to go watch the movie however i'm still skeptical. Even Peter Parker is "flawed" but that only give him an higher degree of humanity. The watchmen are a lot more "worse" than that.

If you mean Comedian doesn't have issues killin' preggos then ya, character wise everyone is depicted EXACTLY as they were in the book all execpt Ozzy and Nite-Owl, they kinda touch on his "little problem" in the movie but do not flat out say it and also his reaction to the end is very different.

They're still the godless, flawed and broken. The only issue I really had was they kept calling themselves The Watchmen which like I said before kinda changes the context of the flim.

But ya, don't worry about the faithfuliness to the characters its ALL the there, just the ending ruins it. Although its still the same premise, just the reactions, the "end fights" were actually fights and not the "villian" basically saying "No." everytime they tried and final dialogue are was taken out which was what made the The Watchmen most memorable to me.

[Jan-Poo]

Indeed the ending of watchmen was amazing, then if you don't mind i'll ask you some question about that in spoiler tags:

Spoiler for ending:

1) Do the "heroes" lose and the "villan" wins even in the movie?

2) I heard that they removed the giant squid alien and they replaced it with some sort of "god" is that true? I can see the whole humanity unite against an evil alien race, but how is that supposed to happen against a divinity?

3) Did they change the historical setting as they did in V for vendetta? Is the cold war nuclear threat still the reason behind Ozymandias' masterplan? Is the soviet war in afghanistan even mentioned?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Indeed the ending of watchmen was amazing, then if you don't mind i'll ask you some question about that in spoiler tags:

Spoiler for ending:

1) Do the "heroes" lose and the "villan" wins even in the movie?

2) I heard that they removed the giant squid alien and they replaced it with some sort of "god" is that true? I can see the whole humanity unite against an evil alien race, but how is that supposed to happen against a divinity?

3) Did they change the historical setting as they did in V for vendetta? Is the cold war nuclear threat still the reason behind Ozymandias' masterplan? Is the soviet war in afghanistan even mentioned?

1.) Yes...kind of. It depends on your defintion of villain (obviously).
2.) See previous spoilers in this thread which have already revealed the 'twist'.
3.) No, the same setting is used (and yes Afghanistan and Vietnam are discussed). About the only difference in the setting is the emphasis on clean energy as opposed to fossil fuels (which is more of a current debate rather than a 1980s debate). This directly relates to the new ending, so its emphasis is important to the story.

[psycho bolt]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Rorschach is a retard, period. At first he looks like his way to solve things through violence is the result of some sort of reasoning, wrong, the truth is Rorschach doesn't know better than that. That doesn't mean he's not cool in his own way, but he's still ultimately pathetic like any other "heroes" in watchmen.

Pretty much he had a tough early life. Usually for some people, they would become into a psychopathic killer, but he chosed to be a psychopathic hero. He has his own sense of justice, kill all the bad guys or lock them in jail.

[james0246]

^Rorschach is a psychopathic killer, he simply kills other killers...

[Reckoner]

As someone who has not read the comic book, I must say that this film was absolutely fantastic. It exceeded my expectations and in some ways may have been better than the Dark Knight. The ending was so unconventional compared to other works of this genre, and its this unconventionality about the whole film that offers a greater distinction.

I can see how this movie is not for everybody though.

I rate it a 9.5/10.

[StoneCloud]

the film was amazing. As a person who read the comic, I was thoroughly pleased with what they did with Watchmen. though they did make a bunch of changes I felt all made it for a better adaptation to film. While they changed a few plot details and cut a few things, the film is so accurate to the comic even to how the scenes are framed. This is flawless and is almost as good as reading the book. the effects are also amazing, with Dr. Manhattan and the martian crystal thing being highlights.

But most surprising to me was that the acting was top notch. Every role was played with care and how I imagined each of the characters would have been. While every role was very well played, Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan are standout roles.

I could not have been more impressed by Watchmen. I had complete confidence in Zach Snyder after seeing 300 (which was also amazing and awesome) and he really outdid himself this time. Though I can see where some people would not like it, it is the perfect adaptation for anyone who has already read the book. If you have not read the book but plan on seeing the film, my suggestion is to read the book or be prepared to give this film your full attention for the 2 and a half hours, or you will be seriously confused.

[anti-random]

i really hated that movie. i thought that some scenes just weren't at the level they should be. and that dr Manhattan crap at the end was WTF.

[Marina]

I went to the midnight showing of the film with some friends, and I'm going to go see it again today with le boyfriend.
I greatly enjoyed the film... though I guess I can be put into the category of one of those who HAVE read the graphic novel and was able to fill in any "gaps" in the film.
The tension in the theater was great, everyone was so hyped up and it made the experience of watching the film 10x more fun.
I didn't mind the change w/ the ending, largely for the same reasons already mentioned by a few people in this thread. It was pulled off well and I even thought it worked better with the overall story.

[Drake]

I really enjoyed both the comic and the movie.

Rorschach made it for me he was my favorite character and they captured him perfectly right down to the voice I imagined him having.

It was a bit of a shame that they only skimmed over his back story.

[yezhanquan]

Anyone thinks that the movie should have been extended and turned into at least 2 separate movies?

[Marina]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Anyone thinks that the movie should have been extended and turned into at least 2 separate movies?

Mmm, that's a pretty interesting idea, one that I think would actually be nice to see. They are including the whole comic within the comic in the special feature DVD version, though.
Making it into two films would be great for fans of the comic, though I'm not sure how the general public would take it.

[Clarste]

I don't think the plot would support being divided in two. There isn't really a good place to end the 1st half.

[GreenLama]

I have personally read the graphic novel a few times and found it to be a good read, and I have seen the movie a couple times now and can honestly say that this is one of the rare comic book movies I find to be better than the GN. I loved the look and feel of the film, and I liked the actors portrayls of the characters, very good job indeed.

8.75/10 IMO.......

[Lonestar9]

Really enjoyed the movie. Had no idea of much of plot since I've never read the comic, but plan to do so someday. Definitely unexpected twists, and bold way to show 'superheroes'. Worth a watch, and looking forward to it's DVD later this year.