Character Discussion - Shirley

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

fine then
i still think that the question of whether or not shierly deserves lelouch the most is up for debate
since there are no clear criteria by which one measures such a thing
I just didn't think that C.C deserved him more based on the protection theme when you take her motives into concern

Oh Please, the point is, there is NO debate over that. If we start measuring "who deserved more" and stuff like this, this is ridiculous on it's own standard. There is no deserving on not, it is just love. Someone loves another, they either love them back or not. Deserving or not, is not up for love-debate. Deserving-concept, goes when someone did a crime. The punishment-deserve.

Deserving in love, is like, one of the most shallow things. Like, "I did thing A and B, you just did thing a, ZOMG YOU DO NOT DESERVE HIM!" Yeah ok, sure.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

fine then
i still think that the question of whether or not shierly deserves lelouch the most is up for debate
since there are no clear criteria by which one measures such a thing
i just didnt think that C.C deserved him more based on the protection theme when you take her motives into concern

I'm gonna have to go with Loli on this, that it would be very hard, if not futiel, to debate something as abstract and undefinable as deservedness, especially for love. It's basically apples and oranges. It's all very vague and dependent on circumstances and personal preference. Take this for example:

Say there's a supplier and he has cupcake. Now there are three people he could possibly give this cupcake to.

One is an investor who has regualarly contributed large sums of money to his estate and through those contributions he has managed to uphold his estate. The man and the investor have a very formal and impersonal relationship. The investor is not really hungry at all.

The second is a service provider who has helped maintain the man's estate for many years. The two have a very friendly and personal relationship and the service provider is very loyal to him. The service provider is only moderately hungry.

The third is a very unfortunate man who, from sort of circumstances, has gone without food for days. The unfortunate man has done no work and contributed nothing to the man, nor does the man know him. Needless to say, the unfortunate man is very hungry.

So who deserves the cupcake most?

Again, I don't think there really is a definite correct answer, it all depends on your beliefs and personal preference. And this is just a simplified problem. There are so many variables that could take place in a real-life situation, and again, it all depends on personal preference.

Please keep in mind this example isn't meant to exactly replicate the situation with Lelouch, C.C., Kallen and Shirley (though there are some canny, but not absolute resemblances)

Anyway, for the protection theme...well, I know C.C. wasn't exactly the most noble character, but I don't think she was horribly malicious either. I don't think she had Lelouch's best interests in mind more than Shirley though. So on that I'll pretty much agree with you blade.

As far as Shirley goes, I don't know if she deserved Lelouch more than C.C., Kallen, or anyone else, but I think she deserved more than what she got. I mean, C.C. and Kallen were given new reasons and desires to live thanks to Lelouch, and what did Shirley get? "Yeah, hope you enjoyed this life of yours that was cut so tragically short. Don't let the door hit you on the way out."

[yezhanquan]

To go a little off-topic, here's another snippet of that fic of mine with a "revived" Shirley.

Spoiler for writing:

She hated wearing the pair of shades. The lenses were large and the whole thing made her look quaint. At least, the sun hat wasn't that bad. As for the dress, the Emperor had specifically ordered that it be modest. Not that she would have minded the plain clothes anyway. She was a simple girl, but she knew that now, "simple" was probably not a good word to describe her.

Walking in the streets and taking in the sights and sounds was a treat to her. After all, she was cooped up in the villa most of the time. Lelouch was paranoid about such stuff, she mused. Although she knew that Tokyo was far from being a safe haven, Lelouch should know that she was able to take care of herself. As for people recognising her, well, good luck with that, given the outfit. She looked more like a clueless tourist than a former student from Ashford Academy.

She stopped and peered at the window display of a shop. She wasn't really interested in getting anything; when you have the Emperor as a friend, getting stuff you want wasn't exactly difficult. No, scratch that. The stuff she wanted couldn't be bought by money. She remembered the moment her mother saw her. The lady looked as if she had seen a ghost, which wasn't that far off the mark.

"...No, it can't be. How..."

"She is who you think she is, my lady." Jeremiah chose his words carefully. After all, he was expecting his unusual look to help the mother adjust her mindset about "weird" things. Apparently, it didn't work out.

"Mother, it's me, Shirley." Those words were ones the lady had been waiting for. However, even as she hugged her daughter, and went on weeping for the next ten minutes, Shirley could feel that amongst the joy, there was something about her mother. Was it a fear of her, a daughter who was now more than mere flesh and blood? Shirley didn't know. Right now, there should be a team "protecting" her mother. It was probably more of "observation", she thought. Her mother had never been in a strong state of mind ever since her father's passing, and Lelouch must be worried about her shooting her mouth off...

She shook her head. What was happening to her? Yes, she was glad that she had this new lease of life. But, somehow, she felt that she had become colder, more calculative, just like the parts which were sustaining her with their programming. How much of her thoughts was her own, and how much was due to machinery? Then, she remembered: It was a price to pay, the price for being able to remain by her mother's side, and...

"Hey, isn't that Milly Ashford?" Shirley turned her attention towards the speaker.

"You mean that hot reporter on TV? Why, it is her!" Shirley could see people closing in on a young woman. She could see that the young lady wasn't exactly comfortable with the crowd. She joined in, but remained at the back. Yes, it was her. In her naivety, Milly had decided to go shopping without putting on a disguise. She may not be an actress, but men with less-than-pure thoughts couldn't care less.

"Miss Ashford, can I have your autograph?" Notepads and pens suddenly appeared en masse in front of the reporter. Reminding herself that she was a professional, she "happily" obliged. She even smiled for those who had their cameras ready.

Suddenly, she felt a hand on her butt. She looked around her. Given the mob, she couldn't tell who the culprit was.

"Is anything wrong, Miss Ashford," asked a concerned fan.

"...Nothing." Although her voice remained cheery, Shirley knew that something wasn't quite right. Another grope on her butt. Shirley could see that the former Student Council president was getting red in the face, even as Milly scanned the mob. She pushed her way into the middle of the crowd. There, she saw a hand reaching for Milly's thigh. Shirley grabbed hold of the hand, and held it high, along with giving it a squeeze. The man yelled.

"Next time, keep your hands to yourself!" Shirley hoped that she sounded firm enough. She gave the arm another squeeze.

"Stop it! You're going to break my arm," hollered the man.

"Let him go." Shirley obliged. Milly was always one to forgive easily. The man nursed his arm, but he was then keenly aware that the mob was now surrounding him.

"Molesters should be given a firm beating," cried a woman. The ladies in the mob nodded their approval. Some gentlemen in the crowd loosened their ties, as if preparing themselves for a fight...

"Thanks," said Milly gratefully.

"Don't mention it."

"Want to have lunch together? It's the least I could do." Shirley was tempted, but no. The more time she spent together with Milly, the more likely that her identity would be exposed. She shook her head.

"In that case, see you around."

"See you around, President." Milly was about to continue on her way when she heard those words, spoken in a soft whisper. She turned around, only to see that the girl with the sun hat and shades had disappeared. Did that girl know me, she wondered. Shrugging it off, she then looked at the time. It was getting late. Best to hurry, she thought.

Further down the street (in the opposite direction), Shirley was glad. Milly was doing well, she thought. Her mind turned to the rest of the gang: Rivalz, Suzaku, Arthur, Kallen, even Nina... Are they doing well too? She bowed and whispered a prayer for all...

[Nobodyman9]

Hmm, you know it took me a minute to remember which fanfic you had written or if I had even read it, but then I realized it was the Shirley-cyborg one (gosh, it's been so long). Anywho, I thought it was pretty good. The prose was nicely written and constructed and all that. I have one or two minor complaints, mainly the part about Shirley calling her mother "Mama." It seems kind of...I don't know...southern valley-ish. I think "Mom" probably would've worked better. Also, the whole crowd ganging up on the molester with the ladies nodding their heads and men cracking their knuckles seemed kind of cartoon-ish. But otherwise great job.

[Rising Dragon]

... if cyborg!Shirley's hanging around Emperor Lelouch, then shouldn't she already know the well-being of Suzaku and Arthur? Its Nina and Kallen she wouldn't know about, unless this takes place after Lelouch and Suzaku pulled their stunt on democracy at the UFN meeting...

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Hmm, you know it took me a minute to remember which fanfic you had written or if I had even read it, but then I realized it was the Shirley-cyborg one (gosh, it's been so long). Anywho, I thought it was pretty good. The prose was nicely written and constructed and all that. I have one or two minor complaints, mainly the part about Shirley calling her mother "Mama." It seems kind of...I don't know...southern valley-ish. I think "Mom" probably would've worked better. Also, the whole crowd ganging up on the molester with the ladies nodding their heads and men cracking their knuckles seemed kind of cartoon-ish. But otherwise great job.

Edited both parts. Makes sense, these points. Gentlemen do wear ties, no?

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

... if cyborg!Shirley's hanging around Emperor Lelouch, then shouldn't she already know the well-being of Suzaku and Arthur? Its Nina and Kallen she wouldn't know about, unless this takes place after Lelouch and Suzaku pulled their stunt on democracy at the UFN meeting...

I wrote the fic with the idea that Lelouch kept her revival from everyone, apart from the team in charge of her, Shirley's mother, and Orange-sama.

[Rising Dragon]

Ah, I see. That makes sense. Even so, I think at least Suzaku would be aware of her renewed existence. She is the reason why the two even bothered to reconcile at the Sword of Akasha.

[yezhanquan]

Lelouch can be a bastard sometimes, so I wrote this as a secret he intends to keep, for now at least. Maybe, he will reveal it. Maybe, he will not. But, I'm sure he'll anticipate that come Zero Requiem, Shirley would want to find out who this replacement Zero is, and then realise that for the rest of their lives, Suzaku and her have to live in the shadows. At least, there is someone who can even begin to understand what he (Suzaku) would be going through.

[Rising Dragon]

Ah, okay. That makes a lot of sense. Actually, that idea sounds pretty damn good to me.

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

You know that C.C is not my cup of tea at all, but I am loling with your hypocrisy. Because, a while ago, you just called out someone in Kallen thread, that did the same thing you doing now when it comes to C.C. Examining epidemically and only choose what you want to see.

It is like, I start saying that Shirley wanted to shoot Lelouch only, and never really forgave him until she was dying, where she actually forgave him only because she was dying. Which would be bull. Certain persons on the show, had a theme accompanying them, and Shirley's was forgiveness. (so we will not get off-topic)

Anyway, I am done here. Getting out of this thread, feel free to be off-topic all you want.

p.s i used the protection-theme, to show how much bull the whole deserving-theory is btw, it was not really meant to count from the beginning.

Except that Shirley already forgave him. She even said those very words when conversing privately with Suzaku following the near-fall incident.

[Meatrose]

Which was Loli's point...

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Ah, okay. That makes a lot of sense. Actually, that idea sounds pretty damn good to me.

That would be after Zero Requiem. Hmmm...

Another chapter. This one takes place after that visit to Tokyo.

Spoiler for writing:

The Emperor found her in the garden, looking at the flowers and admiring the stars. Over here, the lights from the city could hardly be seen, and the lighting within the compound was dim. He figured (correctly) that it would be the simple pleasures which would put a smile on her. The servants in the villa duly reported what they had observed of her. He had an inkling that maybe, she was beginning to keep to herself.

She was indeed happy, but after what had happened on the streets, she wanted some answers. She hoped that he would answer her truthfully.

"Lelouch," she began, without turning to face him. Although he had been quiet, she could not help but notice his presence. Those sensors are too sensitive, she thought.

"Did you have a good time today?" It was his typical way of speaking: warm, but with a hint of calculation. She turned to face him. She was beginning to dislike...no, hate his title. Although no servant was ever allowed in their presence, their replies to her queries, complete with "His Majesty" everytime they mentioned him, were beginning to get to her. Even though it was his power which eventually led to her revival, she still wished that he was plain Lelouch Lamperouge, and not Lelouch vi Britannia, 99th Emperor of the Holy Empire of Britannia.

Her displeasure was not lost on him.

"I guess that is a 'no'."

"I met Milly today." The words were out before she could help herself. He frowned.

"Don't worry. She didn't know who I was." He did not show it, but he was indeed relieved. He didn't want to put another person under surveillance.

She walked up to him.

"Lelouch, how is everyone at Ashford?" The test had begun.

"They are well. As you may have noticed, Milly's now a reporter. Last I heard, Rivalz is still his idiotic self." She had to snigger at the word "idiotic". Much as it may hurt Rivalz, that was probably the most appropriate word to describe his usual behaviour.

"What about Suzaku? Nunnally?" From her tone, he could tell that she was testing him. How should he reply? A lot had happened since her "death". He didn't know what possessed him at that moment, but he was glad that Jeremiah had sworn his loyalty to him earlier that day. Through his grief, he took a dastardly gamble, and ordered her body to be preserved to the best of the Black Knights' capabilities. Seeing her in animated suspension, he remembered feeling helpless when the report came that despite the team's best efforts, her brain has suffered permanent damage due to lack of oxygen. He then placed his hopes on cybernetics. Well, it paid off, but Shirley would never be the same again...

She smiled thinly. If he was spacing out, he probably wasn't thinking up some story to fool her. She walked up to him, and held his hand.

"A penny for your thoughts."

He snapped out of his daze.

"Where were we?... Ah yes, Suzaku and Nunnally..." She held her finger to his lips.

"It's alright. I trust that they are well. After all, one is your best friend and the other is your sister." Saved by the bell, he thought.

"It's a nice night, isn't it?" She turned their attention to the night sky. The stars glittered like diamonds.

"I wish we could meet up again someday, everyone from Ashford." Her words tugged at his heart, but only for a moment. There were more urgent matters at hand. For one, he wasn't sure if Suzaku was ready to go along with his plan. He looked at her. Maybe....

[WhiteWings]

Shirley. There were no good reasons she turned into a sacrificial lamb.

She was in the way of the other girl's 'future' with Lelouch so she was knocked off.

She might have brough Lelouch more stability and acutally might have allowed Lelouch to become a bit more normal in his lifestyle. But Lelouch had to be filled with angst, he needed to be a basketcase or borderline psychotic, and he needed to be alone. So Shirley died.

I preferred Lelouch ending up with C.C. was Shirley died for no good reason for a main character.

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Meatrose

Which was Loli's point...

Loli seemed to be inferring that Shirley only forgave Lelouch in her dying moments though.

[Meatrose]

Originally Posted by azul120

Loli seemed to be inferring that Shirley only forgave Lelouch in her dying moments though.

Loli was arguing that one can not pick and choose the parts about a character one wants to pay attention to and disregard the rest. Everything has to be taken into consideration.

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

It is like, I start saying that Shirley wanted to shoot Lelouch only, and never really forgave him until she was dying, where she actually forgave him only because she was dying. Which would be bull. Certain persons on the show, had a theme accompanying them, and Shirley's was forgiveness.

What she meant was that if you only choose to see what you want to see you can easily turn a character into something he or she is not.

Edit: Loli, feel free to slap me around if you feel that I'm putting words in your mouth. =P

[azul120]

Whoops. I missed those words. My bad.

[Meatrose]

Originally Posted by azul120

Whoops. I missed those words. My bad.

No worries, everyone misses a few words every now and then. I just thought I should point out that you were actually in agreement. =)

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by azul120

Whoops. I missed those words. My bad.

Ha ha, don't worry about it azul. I actually made the same mistake initially, but then I went back and re-read it.

@Whitewing: I'm inclined to agree with you about the fact that Shirley died for pretty much no good reason. However, I don't agree that she was killed off to make way for the other girls' "future" with Lelouch. I hardly think the writers would do something that shallow and calloused (...ah who am I kidding? This is Sunrise we're talking about ) And it's not like the other girls had a future with Lelouch anyway, so there would be no point.

@yezhanquan: Another great chapter. Keep it coming

[yezhanquan]

For me, it was about time I set a time line for my fic.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

For me, it was about time I set a time line for my fic.

Ha ha, I know what you mean. I wish I had a better schedule and more time to work on my fanfic. Anywho, speaking of which, and since we're sharing our fanfics anyway, I thought I'd post a preview of the next chapter of my Code Geass: A World Abandoned fanfic. Keep in mind though that this isn't a complete and final version. This is just a rought draft that has yet to be revised and it's not the full chapter, just a segment. Enjoy.

Spoiler for size:

It had been two days since Lelouch and Shirley’s meeting with Suzaku. After they had returned to the hotel, they had decided that the best course of action to take would be to go to the address that Suzaku had given them and meet up with Rivalz. They stayed at the hotel until about noon that day and then checked out. They stopped for lunch along the way and then went on ahead to the train station that would take them to Rivalz’s address, which just happened to be in Tokyo.

Lelouch and Shirley had sat next to each other the whole way (naturally) occasionally carrying on conversation over the two days. They talked about Suzaku, about Japan’s liberation, about Nunnally, about Shirley’s mother, about the Student Council, and about what might come of their meeting with Rivalz. Of course they were careful not to bring up anything that might give away Lelouch’s status as a Britannian prince or his former identity of Zero, should they be overheard by one of their fellow passengers.

Right now they were in the final stretch of their journey on the train as the conductor announced, “Next stop, Tokyo Metro Center.”

Shirley perked up. “Well, our stop is up next Lulu. You ready?”

He glanced over to her and smiled. “As I’ll ever be.”

As the train went back into motion, Shirley looked out the window to look at the city she was all too familiar. However, she noticed that many landmarks had the changed and the city looked quite different from how she remembered. “Wow, Tokyo sure looks different, doesn’t it Lelouch?”

Lelouch looked outside and he saw she was right. “Yeah, there must have been a lot of reconstruction done after Blackest Night.”

Shirley’s bright smile faded and her face slowly turned sad as she thought about all the people that must have died that day and how much it must have changed things.

“Yeah. I wonder what else has changed. I wonder how it affected Rivalz and Milly and Nina and the others. I hope they’re all okay.”

Lelouch took notice of her sad tone and held her hand. “Well, whatever’s happened, we’ll find out soon, and I’m sure it’ll all work out.” He smiled. She smiled back. As the train continued to move they looked out the window to see all the changes that had been made to the city they hadn’t seen for so long. There were a lot of new buildings that looked more modern and fancier than the ones they remembered and the city looked much more busy and industrious, but the overall layout was still basically the same. They took notice of and commented on the various locations until, finally, they reached their stop.

The train slowed down as it pulled into the station and the conductor announced, “Tokyo Metro Center.”

The trained came to a halt. The doors slid open and the passengers rose and began to exit the train. Lelouch rose from his seat. “All right, let’s go Shirley.”

He offered his hand to her and she graciously accepted it. They made their way off the train, carrying whatever few belongings they had. They walked through the threshold of the electric sliding doors, made their first steps onto the platform and they were officially back in Tokyo.

For a few seconds they simply stood and took it all in. They watched the hustle and bustle of the hundreds of people traveling about the train station, looked at the city skylines from the windows and soaked in the familiarity of the industrious city.

“Ah, it feels so good to be back in Tokyo Lulu.”

Lelouch smiled as he surveyed the bustling metropolis and he was filled with a genuine sense of satisfaction and nostalgia. “Yeah, it really does.”

He thought back to all the times, both good and bad, that he had had in the familiar city. And as he thought about it he realized that being back in Tokyo truly was a breath of fresh air compared to the life of isolation he had been living for so long.

“Hard to believe it’s been five years,” he said. He turned to Shirley. “I guess to you it doesn’t seem that long though, right?”

Of course he was referring to the fact that Shirley had been unconscious for most of the five years they’d been gone. Shirley thought about his words and, while there was some truth to what he said, it still seemed to her that she had been away from the city for a long while.

“It’s been long enough,” she said. Having soaked in the atmosphere of busy train station quite sufficiently, Shirley decided it was best to start moving. “Well, let’s go Lulu.”

She started to walk, but almost immediately she was stopped by Lelouch as he put his hand on her shoulder. “Shirley…I’m afraid I won’t be able to go.”

Quite taken aback by his words and actions, she turned to face him. “What do you mean Lelouch?”

“I’m sorry Shirley, but I can’t go with you to meet up with Rivalz.”

His words almost felt like a slap in the face. She had been very much looking forward to seeing Rivalz and had completely expected Lelouch to be there with her. “What are you saying Lelouch? Why not? We’ve come so far and traveled all this way together. How can you just back out now?”

“I’m not backing out, Shirley.” His words were quick and harsh, as if he were defending himself. Shirley gave a barely audible gasp, a bit startled by his words. Lelouch paused briefly and the calm returned to his voice. “I’ve been thinking about this for a while, ever since our meeting with Suzaku, and I’ve made my decision. I’m going to find Nunnally.”

Shirley was quiet for a moment. She understood the reasoning behind Lelouch’s actions as well as the nobility of it, but she still felt uneasy about his sudden actions. “Lelouch…I can imagine how you must feel…but do you really have to leave right now? You don’t have to go rushing in. We can talk about this. Maybe we can find out somehow if…”

He cut her off. “You said yourself that we need to face our past Shirley. Nunnally is the only family I have left. I need to know if she’s alive.”

“I don’t understand. We’ve come all this way already. Rivalz is right nearby here. We can both go and see him together. Wouldn’t you at least like to see him before you do anything like this?”

“I’d like that Shirley, but unfortunately this can’t wait. The longer I wait the more likely it is that I won’t do it, and I can’t risk developing anymore attachments. This is just a transfer point for me. I’m getting on the red line which will take me to the Black Knight’s Headquarters.” They were both silent. Shirley was at loss for words and Lelouch could see the sadness in her eyes. “I’m sorry Shirley, but I need to do this.”

She could see there was no hope in changing his mind, and deep down she did know that he had to do it. “Okay. I understand, Lelouch. Just promise me you’ll be careful, all right?”

He gave her a reassuring smile. “I will.” I felt a tinge of regret as he noticed Shirley still leaning on her cane. “I’m sorry to leave you alone in the state you’re in, but I’m sure you’ll make it to Rivalz okay, right?”

She thought for a moment, glancing down at her cane, but she gave a firm and positive response. “Yes. I’ll be fine Lelouch.”

“Good. Thank you for understanding, Shirley.” As he finished speaking, the red line train pulled into the station. “Well, that’s my train. I better get going.” The train came to a complete stop. The doors opened allowing the wave of passengers to exit and the next wave to enter. There were no words between them as Lelouch made his way onto the train. He stood just beyond the threshold and turned back to her.“Take care of yourself Shirley.”

It sounded as if it would be the last time they would see each other. She cried out as Lelouch stood inside the train.“I love you Lulu.”

He smiled. “I know.”

The doors sealed shut. The train went into motion, accelerating and soon enough vanishing into the dark tunnel and with that Shirley was on her own.