Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

You can turn that Sh*t off!?!? HOW?! The rap system is just childish.. If you have something to say then just say it here or PM me.

Let's not kid ourselves--while you can turn off rep in a sense, all it does is prevent others from seeing your rep level, by giving you a single black bar. From what I've been told, with this on, you can still get rep (and thus the messages included with) when you check your CP. I know for a fact you can still rep others who have the black rep bar set without any errors.

[GundamFan]

One big problem was Shinn's rage over Stella's death it always seemed kind of fake and forced. I wish they would have had an additional pilot on the Minerva she could have been someone knew since he lived in orb, one of Kira's trick shots could cause more damage then he intend or cause it to crash killing her thus spurring on Shinn's downward spiral.

[monster]

Originally Posted by GundamFan

One big problem was Shinn's rage over Stella's death it always seemed kind of fake and forced. I wish they would have had an additional pilot on the Minerva she could have been someone knew since he lived in orb, one of Kira's trick shots could cause more damage then he intend or cause it to crash killing her thus spurring on Shinn's downward spiral.

One thing to note is that Shinn started off the series already psychologically damaged. Even after two years, he's still very much haunted by his past. So I wouldn't consider Shinn's quick attachment to Stella fake or forced considering the state he was in already.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

In-universe, yeah, it's understandable. I guess they mean that from a viewer's standpoint as some may not really feel bad for Shinn and/or Stellar since they don't really "feel" his anger, sadness, etc when watching it like I really didn't...similar to Fllay's death at the end of SEED. Not like the last couple episodes of Victory Gundam or episode 3 of AGE and such where I actually had tears in my eyes.

[monster]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

they don't really "feel" his anger, sadness, etc when watching it like I really didn't...similar to Fllay's death at the end of SEED.

Well, that's just you.

I'm unashamed to say that I felt like crying when I first saw Fllay's death. (I don't remember if tears actually did form.) I was hoping she and Kira could've made up in the end at the very least, but no, I didn't even get that.

And Bruzar's death is touching, but honestly, I couldn't shed a tear for a character I barely knew.

Anyway, that's just me.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Well, it was a combination of Bruzer (with the flashback) and the civilians, especially the little girl with her teddy bear.

[PzIVf3]

It would be better story if Shinn wanted a revenge at Freedom for the death of his family but the director wouldn't.

I just wondering if Kira is the blame for the death of Shinn Family?

You see there is no ground military or navy presence in the area to bombard or strafe the island while Kira using his rainbow beam guns from high above altitude to direct target at the 3 Druggies: one is below the Calamity and other 2 Druggies is somewhere airborne.

Its impossible the Calamity to spot or disturb the small civilian target with low visibility covered with trees.

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by monster

One thing to note is that Shinn started off the series already psychologically damaged. Even after two years, he's still very much haunted by his past. So I wouldn't consider Shinn's quick attachment to Stella fake or forced considering the state he was in already.

I get where your coming still though considering how short of time he knew her and what she was and everything the level of attachment he had still seems way over the top. Of course that's just my opinion and this is something that's very subjective.

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

In-universe, yeah, it's understandable. I guess they mean that from a viewer's standpoint as some may not really feel bad for Shinn and/or Stellar since they don't really "feel" his anger, sadness, etc when watching it like I really didn't...similar to Fllay's death at the end of SEED. Not like the last couple episodes of Victory Gundam or episode 3 of AGE and such where I actually had tears in my eyes.

The thing is though I did feel bad for both Shinn and Stella at different points through out the series I just think his level of emotional attachment to her seems forced. And no I didn't cry at any point during GSD I rarely cry during a tv show or movie. One of the few things from tv that did make me tear up was the ending of GS Stargazer when I thought Selene and Sven had died which it actaully surprised me it effected me that much. Yeah I have since found out the manga version does show they survived.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by monster

One thing to note is that Shinn started off the series already psychologically damaged. Even after two years, he's still very much haunted by his past. So I wouldn't consider Shinn's quick attachment to Stella fake or forced considering the state he was in already.

I deeply second to that and that seems to be the main reason he left Orb with a hatred and the same reason he attack Orb making it seem (unconciously to himself) that he's doing something good for all.

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by genjichan

I deeply second to that and that seems to be the main reason he left Orb with a hatred and the same reason he attack Orb making it seem (unconciously to himself) that he's doing something good for all.

It was more then just hatred though I'm thinking he was suffering from something along the lines of Posttraumatic stress disorder from what happened in Orb then you had the Freedom being involved in both incidents and directly destroying that Destroy Shinn probably should have unraveled more mentaly then he did.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by GundamFan

It was more then just hatred though I'm thinking he was suffering from something along the lines of Posttraumatic stress disorder from what happened in Orb then you had the Freedom being involved in both incidents and directly destroying that Destroy Shinn probably should have unraveled more mentaly then he did.

Shinn definitely has PSD, as evident from when he saw the Impulse in Ep 50 and reacted to it like it was the Freedom... The image of Freedom and the harm it caused him definitely seemed engrained in his mind.

However, Shinn's hatred of Orb has a very logical and simple explanation to it. Orb failed to protect his family, its stubborn ideology led to it being attacked, and its promise of peace and neutrality (which led to Shinn's family immigrating there in the first place) was broken. Not to mention the crazy contradictory and hypocritical things (in his mind) Orb was doing during GSD. As a result he hated it with a passion.

[monster]

While there is certainly some influence, there's a distinction between what made Shinn the way he is at the start of Destiny and what made him angry throughout Destiny.

Shinn is the way he is because of his family's death. But his anger towards Cagalli, Freedom, Archangel, Orb, and even Athrun is more due to their actions in Destiny, not because of what happened to his family.

Stella is the only one that really connects Shinn back to his family or, more accurately, his sister. And that is why Stella's death was more influential to Shinn's mental breakdown than anything else since the death of his family.

[rakusukira]

Originally Posted by monster

Stella is the only one that really connects Shinn back to his family or, more accurately, his sister. And that is why Stella's death was more influential to Shinn's mental breakdown than anything else since the death of his family.

something that wasn't that elaborated in the series. I understood where Shinn was coming from but they could have put more depth on Stella's character

[monster]

Originally Posted by rakusukira

something that wasn't that elaborated in the series.

It seems pretty obvious to me. What further elaboration do you need?

[NoemiChan]

Speaking of Stellar, I felt sorry and at the same time hate her. why?

Felt sorry because she has to be at the bad side, killing people which , for me doen'st seems to fit her "being", I mean being cute, but deadly murderous at the same time.

Hate her, of course, she's a killer, far more dangerous than Shin.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Some people are easier to please while others wish for far more fleshed out characters. Like what exactly do we know about Stellar besides the basic "innocent(?) that got the raw end of a deal with the EA and died before fully understanding anything?" Pretty much nothing. This is similar to why some people didn't generally like Kamille and Four's relationship in Zeta, but are at least able to accept it with the whole "Newtype greater-than-normal understanding" concept. Here, we got nothing more than Stellar's innocence reminding Shinn of his little sister, but no real "relationship" beyond that it feels like to me. Even Kira and Fllay at least had SOMETHING going between them, despite the weird circumstances at the start.

While this may be compared to Kamille and Rosamia's "relationship" in Zeta, at least there Kamille, whether he knew it or not, ended up going along with that tampered memory Rosamia had, thus he actually did feel like he became a big brother to her, which made him having to kill her to protect the Argama when she mentally broke down feel worse. While they may not have been truly related, the writers made you feel like they were deep down.

I can feel generally bad about Stellar's death because of her more innocent side, but nothing that great to dwell on it so much like they kept trying to make viewers do by constantly going back to it like they tend to do with various things. Frankly, I felt worse over Nicol and Tolle's deaths, and even Heine's (given how meaningless it felt due to Kira and co's interference causing it in the first place).

[winter45]

Originally Posted by genjichan

Speaking of Stellar, I felt sorry and at the same time hate her. why?

Felt sorry because she has to be at the bad side, killing people which , for me doen'st seems to fit her "being", I mean being cute, but deadly murderous at the same time.

Hate her, of course, she's a killer, far more dangerous than Shin.

Both are soldiers, soldiers are trained and indoctrinated to kill. They follow orders, how does this make them bad?

[monster]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

Here, we got nothing more than Stellar's innocence reminding Shinn of his little sister, but no real "relationship" beyond that it feels like to me.

Well, I think that's probably the point. Theirs is not a normal relationship and it probably won't stand the test of time had Stella survived Destiny. But for what they had, Shinn at the very least felt strongly about it, and not necessarily in the romantic way either.

I think a lot of people misjudged it because they think this relationship is romantic in nature. But while there may be some romantic undertone, the main point seems to be Shinn's need to protect, which arose out of seeing his family killed.

So in that sense, while Stella's character may not be as "fleshed out" as some would like it to be, it is of relatively low importance in this case. If we discount the fact that she's a killer, we know that Stella has certain qualities that could invoke protective feelings from others. And Shinn happens to be just the man who wants to protect her.

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by brightman

Shinn definitely has PSD, as evident from when he saw the Impulse in Ep 50 and reacted to it like it was the Freedom... The image of Freedom and the harm it caused him definitely seemed engrained in his mind.

However, Shinn's hatred of Orb has a very logical and simple explanation to it. Orb failed to protect his family, its stubborn ideology led to it being attacked, and its promise of peace and neutrality (which led to Shinn's family immigrating there in the first place) was broken. Not to mention the crazy contradictory and hypocritical things (in his mind) Orb was doing during GSD. As a result he hated it with a passion.

Some of the anger and hatred seemed to follow a logic like when they invade orb wanting to end what he saw as the corrupt government of Orb with his own hands. At other times his hatred and anger didnt seem logical he would completely flip out make some noise that sounded like arg.

Also on Stella I think it might have help if they had fleshed out her character.

[aeriolewinters]

Also on Stella I think it might have help if they had fleshed out her character.

If only Stellar wasn't an experiment and a proper human pilot. Her character pretty much can't amount to anything if it's fleshing out because:
a.) her memories can be implanted.
b.) she was unstable as hell
c.) she didn't have motivation, just driven by instinct. even her raid on ladonia lab is based on instinct