Ore no Imouto - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Dreamchaser]

Loved the episode - it was really funny to see Kuroneko and Kirino being totally tsundere towards each other.

I also don't really have an issue with the way Kirino is, that's what makes me like her even though she could be a bit nicer towards her brother. The fact that she wanted to keep her brother away from her friends doesn't strike me as odd - it was practically standard to keep ones brothers or sisters away when one had friends over when I was a kid. In Kirino's case it probably also has something to do with the fact that she tries to keep an image in front of her friends.

After this episode I assume that Saori is really a rich girl, possible associated with the make-up company that was mentioned in the episode. But she really changes personality while talking compared to the writing which is quite amusing. Kuroneko was awesome this episode as usual. I wasn't actually expecting her to be the one who won the competition (btw that game looked hilariously perved, tentacles and lolis - what more can you ask for? )

I have to say that Ayase didn't make much of an impression on me this episode, sure she looks cute but I find her personality to be quite dull. But it will be interesting to see what happens between her and Kyousuke. The next episode can't come soon enough.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Dreamchaser

After this episode I assume that Saori is really a rich girl, possible associated with the make-up company that was mentioned in the episode. But she really changes personality while talking compared to the writing which is quite amusing. Kuroneko was awesome this episode as usual. I wasn't actually expecting her to be the one who won the competition (btw that game looked hilariously perved, tentacles and lolis - what more can you ask for? )

My first thought was that she worked for the company, but I don't know how old she is, so that doesn't hold true. It would be funny if she was the daughter of some big business tycoon. Kind of like in Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu.

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

So why not be creative with the head and not the other 'head'? You could have made another incident aside from that scene? Instead of falling on top of one another, it could be another thing?

I'm being a purist? No. It's just that the way they looked at the source material and expressed it is ill, and that scene could've been done in so many ways so that it cannot be as offensive.

Well, strictly speaking, tonal consistency. The way the scene was done here provides that in the context of the anime. The same scene in the LN may have been done differently, and it may have fit better with the tone of the LN. Here in the anime, though, a significant part of the tone of the series and where a lot of the humor comes from is the awkwardness between Kyousuke and Kirino. This version of the scene played that element up, and also reinforced the divide between Kirino's siscon habit and her feelings in reality.

[aeriolewinters]

This version of the scene played that element up, and also reinforced the divide between Kirino's siscon habit and her feelings in reality.

Wow, a chest grope, and undie closeups really can modify and 'level' up a scene... Way to go... How inspiring. It doesn't change the fact that the probably cause for this isn't artistic freedom, it's more like financial $ucce$$

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Wow, a chest grope, and undie closeups really can modify and 'level' up a scene... Way to go... How inspiring. It doesn't change the fact that the probably cause for this isn't artistic freedom, it's more like financial $ucce$$

Look, obviously the ecchi offends you a great deal. Again, that's your right, and far be it for me to tell you how to feel in response to a creative work. I'm simply providing critical analysis to show that the scene does indeed serve a useful purpose in its context. You've not really rebutted that, and I have never disagreed that the ecchi was partially intended to garner some attention.

At the end of the day, though, it is not 'stupid fanservice' because that would preclude it from helping to convey the story, while this scene in the way it was executed did so. Are there alternatives? I have no doubt. But each of them would have characterized the following scenes differently, and more importantly, the particular way we did get the scene in the anime is one that is 100% consistent with some of the underlying concerns of Kirino and Kyousuke's characters.

The tension between their efforts to establish a functional, healthy sibling relationship, and the various difficulties presented by such a thing coming about after puberty--and yes, incest plot or no, the fact that they came into physical maturity outside of any real close relationship is relevant--along with the way people perceive it, which was addressed here...that stuff is the core of this story.

[DJLowrider]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

So why not be creative with the head and not the other 'head'? You could have made another incident aside from that scene? Instead of falling on top of one another, it could be another thing?

Because sex sells, period. And despite your inferences, there is nothing wrong with that. Maybe you should stop and ask yourself why it really bothers you so much instead of just labeling it as "stupid fanservice". Ricky's post was spot-on. The scene is just fine as it is in the episode as it helps to move the story along and provides a good moment of characterization for Ayase when she talks to Kyousuke about it afterwards.

I'm being a purist? No. It's just that the way they looked at the source material and expressed it is ill, and that scene could've been done in so many ways so that it cannot be as offensive. It doesn't change the fact that they altered the scene so that it is more exploited for !fanservice points.

Thanks for both the revisionism and the good ol' proof by assertion fallacy.

When you say "we already have the light novel version" then yes, you are being a purist because you are stating that the original version of the scene is better than what was animated. But on top of that, inferring that there were other "better" ways to do it? Now you're just being pretentious to boot.

The producers, directors and animators for this show are doing their best to present their version of the story the books provide. They want it to have the widest appeal possible, and the scene in question is both titillating and crucial to how the rest of the episode progresses. Short of throwing in the typical crappy censorship for such a scene I really don't see how you could re-do that scene, have it retain its impact and still provide the plot points and flow to continue the episode.

It's supposed to be an awkward scene. It's supposed to feel uncomfortable. You don't accomplish that by re-writing it to be more tame so you don't offend every unique little snowflake out there who can't stomach the sight of someone accidentally groping a girl in her bra and panties. Besides, if they did do that you'd probably be in here anyway complaining that they either left the scene out or screwed it up entirely.

tl;dr - It's fine. Stop overreacting.

[aeriolewinters]

I have no doubt. But each of them would have characterized the following scenes differently, and more importantly, the particular way we did get the scene in the anime is one that is 100% consistent with some of the underlying concerns of Kirino and Kyousuke's characters.

No, there is no one solution to a problem. Which would mean that there are countless other possibilities that they could convey that message without resorting to fanservice, yet they still chose to. You killed off those other possibilities because you are aware that one of the others is possibly the best way to convey the message without resorting to fanservice. There was the LN's way and it worked... so why change it? There are a ton of other possibilities, but you choose to overlook all of the other ways...

When you say "we already have the light novel version" then yes, you are being a purist because you are stating that the original version of the scene is better than what was animated. But on top of that, inferring that there were other "better" ways to do it? Now you're just being pretentious to boot.

Well that's because judging from what the light novel version accomplishes, while it's 'tame' . It still gives out the feeling of awkwardness. there are other ways to show that awkwardness, without going to show flesh. You could either rewrite the whole scene without them falling, with a different consequence. you can probably deviate from what the LN did, without doing fanservice. It's not LN>>>anime. There could have been better ways without the fanservice... and judging from your stance, you're already defending the anime because you like the scene yourself. You wouldn't go around here and rant about me if you didn't like the scene. But at the end of the day, it's just your opinion, It's just my opinion etc. etc. etc. But it certainly gives the question of why you are questioning me for questioning another's taste while you yourself are doing it.

All in all, it doesn't change the fact that they could've done it without the fanservice and it would still look awkward. It's just that they chose to go that route because they want more $$

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

No, there is no one solution to a problem. Which would mean that there are countless other possibilities that they could convey that message without resorting to fanservice, yet they still chose to. You killed off those other possibilities because you are aware that one of the others is possibly the best way to convey the message without resorting to fanservice. There was the LN's way and it worked... so why change it? There are a ton of other possibilities, but you choose to overlook all of the other ways...

Where am I saying that? Nowhere. I simply said that this solution is one that works. And I explicitly state that there were other workable solutions, but you literally cannot have variations in storytelling without varying some part of the story. It's just a fact. The differences may have been subtle, but they'd be there.

As far as I can tell, you are dismissing the solution that came up solely because the ecchi offends you. You haven't argued that it's not effective storytelling, just that you don't like it. So that begs the question, if you're so open to different solutions, why do you keep insisting it was 'stupid'?

You dislike it. That's fair and fine. It is nevertheless effective, and there's not really a reason to complain unless there was a way that actually conveyed the story more powerfully. Whether or not it's done in the way one would morally prefer is irrelevant to its value, and I do sincerely hope that you aren't actually going to criticize a studio for going a money-making route when it it has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to hamper the story, because that's just hipster condescension.

[aeriolewinters]

As far as I can tell, you are dismissing the solution that came up solely because the ecchi offends you. You haven't argued that it's not effective storytelling, just that you don't like it. So that begs the question, if you're so open to different solutions, why do you keep insisting it was 'stupid'?

I flip the coin, Why is it not 'stupid'? It's not effective storytelling because it will not tell you the story, I assure you people are already looking at it in an ecchi way and not the correct way. So why risk that? because it sells. You tell me how you can explain the scene to a mainstream guy who will scream 'hentai' at the sight of these things? It's going in the way of storytelling even. You see that troll who just went in? Many of them are now spawned right now, because jpg's are spread around and not the whole scene. So how are you going to tell them that this is more than Generic Imouto anime 1632843 with those stills going around? Yes it would give it more publicity. But how can you justify that the scene is better than other alternatives?

[HayashiTakara]

I love how Kyousuke is recognizing all the events that's been going on are "flags"

[Solecs]

Admittedly after seeing the comparison with the LN illustration, I like the illustration more. Mainly because Kyousuke actually manages to catch/help Kirino in the process of falling in that case. I never understood why male leads consistently fail to do that other than the awkward situation reason.

That said, they are two ways of doing the same scene and the end result doesn't change much. One isn't better than the other, just that one may be more or less preferable depending on your tastes. I do think both qualify as fan-service though, especially given the series context. By contrast, I wouldn't count the similar scene in Evangelion with Shinji and Rei as fan-service.

On another note, and this has probably been proposed before, what are the chances they're going to pull an adopted sibling angle? They've specifically pointed out that Kirino and Kyousuke don't look alike a couple times now. I know siblings don't always resemble each other and the way the two present themselves differs greatly, but it just seems odd they'd call attention to it as much as they have.

[aeriolewinters]

I love how Kyousuke is recognizing all the events that's been going on are "flags"

Kyousuke loves 'flags' in his other life...

On another note, and this has probably been proposed before, what are the chances they're going to pull an adopted sibling angle? They've specifically pointed out that Kirino and Kyousuke don't look alike a couple times now. I know siblings don't always resemble each other and the way the two present themselves differs greatly, but it just seems odd they'd call attention to it as much as they have.

Let's hope they pull Keitaro and Kanako just in case...

[ion475]

Well that's because judging from what the light novel version accomplishes, while it's 'tame' . It still gives out the feeling of awkwardness. there are other ways to show that awkwardness, without going to show flesh. You could either rewrite the whole scene without them falling, with a different consequence. you can probably deviate from what the LN did, without doing fanservice. It's not LN>>>anime. There could have been better ways without the fanservice... and judging from your stance, you're already defending the anime because you like the scene yourself. You wouldn't go around here and rant about me if you didn't like the scene. But at the end of the day, it's just your opinion, It's just my opinion etc. etc. etc. But it certainly gives the question of why you are questioning me for questioning another's taste while you yourself are doing it.

All in all, it doesn't change the fact that they could've done it without the fanservice and it would still look awkward. It's just that they chose to go that route because they want more $$

I don't know how many times I want to repeat, but the scene is taken directly out of the novel. You want the original version? Animator did exactly that, and you're pissed. Then on another hand, I don't see half a reason why they should change it, I mean, just so that it can fit the taste of someone like you who think all ecchi = fanservice and is just bad?

[aeriolewinters]

I don't know how many times I want to repeat, but the scene is taken directly out of the novel. You want the original version? Animator did exactly that, and you're pissed.

Yup, take a cue and look at how differently FMA and FMA brotherhood starts... They're from the same material right?

Then on another hand, I don't see half a reason why they should change it, I mean, just so that it can fit the taste of someone like you who think all ecchi = fanservice and is just bad?

Like I said, I've seen this scene a ton of times, from other series and you'd see how different they all are executed... and I don't see the need for those extra things, seriously.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I love how Kyousuke is recognizing all the events that's been going on are "flags"

Yeah. I'm glad I started playing VNs this past summer, otherwise I wouldn't be able to appreciate it as much.

[frubam]

Nice episode. I really like the two-parter-ish feel I got from this compared to other episodes. And me thinks Ayase has a little crush on our hero =03.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I kind of agree with aeriolewinters that the falling-on-top-of scene wasn't the greatest, but for someone unfamiliar with the game, it wasn't that much of a problem. It did what it needed to, in a fairly understated way. It's almost always a downer to know the original source material of an anime.

And never expect them to do anything other than use whatever means they can to make money. This is popular entertainment, not Shakespeare -- oh, wait: Shakespeare was popular entertainment, and had busty serving maids and lewd remarks, too.

Whatever they're doing appears to be working: OreImo is up to 45,000 posts on 2channel, and I think it's the most popular new show of the season there, ahead of Ika Musume and Star Driver.

[Solecs]

*snip*

As for flags, I had no idea what they were until School Rumble (I think onigiri should have won ). Though I'd played some VNs before that. You know your life has taken a turn for the worst when you identify them in real life. Hands up for anyone that's happened to?

(wait, flags? really?)

[Miraluka]

Kate: Unlicensed Blade Works? I laughed at that .

Spoiler for About the ep.:

- Ayase is starting to give me creepy vibes.
- Kyousuke, needs to be respected and some pride.
- Kirino, the girl felt annoying this episode even those bystanders noticed this.
-

[Sprite_Coke]

Originally Posted by frubam

Nice episode. I really like the two-parter-ish feel I got from this compared to other episodes. And me thinks Ayase has a little crush on our hero =03.

Not trying to start any shipping, but thought I'd share some details from the friend visit incident:

Spoiler for from the manga:

When Ayase saw Kyousuke on Kirino she was crushed, like she dropped to the ground. Then when the siblings denied that type of relationship, Ayase was very strongly relieved. Also in the 1 on 1 encounter between Ayase and Kyousuke, she blushes, like hardcore... and is really glad that she got his mail.