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ChibiBear · 2009-09-20, 21:16

Thank god they didn't animate that scene... I'll never be that immune to violence...

kitten320 · 2010-01-21, 21:20

Once again I'm lost... Didn't Battler already lose the game? He became Beatrice's slave and was screaming I believe in witches!

And then he radomply pops up saying "I'm not done yet?" Just WTF? Like this he will never lose!

Battler: I'm dead... I became a slave... Wait! I still can come back and claim that I still don't believe!

I'm completly lost in this series @_@

And with the whole "text will be red if I lie", where is the proof that she was saying the truth? The magic was created by her so she could twist it whatever way she could and yet it almost never crossed his mind!

Somehow I had liked 1st version of actions more... it gave more suspence and curiousity. Now out of nowhere servents have some special abilities, we have walking zombies (Kanon)... I hope that 3rd version will be a bit more interesting...

Tjfarmer · 2010-01-21, 21:28

Battler temporarily accepted witches, but he came back and decided to fight back once he saw what was happening to Rosa...

Red text is the truth, and essentially its one of the only ways to know what is really going on. Umineko IS a mystery, just told through fantasy. Red Text counts as the clues for the series, along with anything Battler sees (before it turns October 6th, or until he gets drunk. It depends on how you want to explain the ending to the second arc.)

And if you're still confused after arc 3, I might explain in more depth on whats going on...

kitten320 · 2010-01-21, 21:36

Then he can temporaly accept them till the end of the world, there will be no winner then. If he said he believes once, then he does. First word is the one that counts. He gave up in the middle of everything, he had lost and doesn't deserve a chance to continue, he had already admited defeat.

Somehow for such twisted, cruel and calculative witch, Beatrice is being way too soft and dumb with him. She could celebraye her victory long time ago -_-

Sigh... will take a look at arc 3 then, I hope that it really will become clearer, thanks

Tjfarmer · 2010-01-21, 21:42

I can say "I believe I can fly!" but then when I see someone try to fly by jumping over a canyon, I'll know I can't fly.

Battler can say "Dammit I believe in witches now!" but then when he sees someone else who doesn't want to accept Beatrice, he can go and say "I don't believe in witches anymore!" because of a new resolve.

(not that great of an analogy, but I came up with it on the spot

)

kitten320 · 2010-01-21, 21:54

Well at some point it does make sence but still?
He can easilly say "I'm having a dream" and that's it. Beatrice will never win at this point.

Besides she is a sadist, for him saying same "I can fly" already should be enough. If I were on her place, I so would record it and then would play it all over again to show his lose. And if he would resist, I would call hima a sore loser and so on...

I don't know... maybe I'm thinking differently or something, but through all those episodes I almost always saw Beatrice winning, she really should make better use of his words.

Thunder Book · 2010-01-21, 21:56

I think it's kind of weird you'd think Beatrice would win. To me, one of the main themes of When They Cry has been about defeating nearly impossible odds.

Tjfarmer · 2010-01-21, 22:02

There could also be a reason why Beatrice didn't end the game after Battler admitted he accepted witches. Opinions can go either way;

Beatrice wanted to torture Battler more/still continue the game

Ryukishi wanted to continue the story even more, so he ignored a plot hole to do so

Something is not as it seems

It would be bad to end it now, with no true answer

Most of this will probably be answered for you as you continue the series, but you'll have to pick up clues to see which one is true....

kitten320 · 2010-01-21, 22:10

Thunder Book
The only real thing that stops Beatrice from winning is the fact that she is a villian who needs to lose. That much is obviouse.

For me author just makes her lose look kinda random and stupid...

Tjfarmer
At the moment 2nd suggestion seems the most realistic for me

Beatrice looked way too suprised when Battler came back...but who knows, maybe she really wanted more fun...

Well will see, there are only 2 more scenarios left for me to complain about if something

But I hope to get clear answer in the end

So wait for me at 18th episode thread now

View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10	37	20.67%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	47	26.26%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	41	22.91%
7 out of 10 : Good	27	15.08%
6 out of 10 : Average	18	10.06%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	3	1.68%
4 out of 10 : Poor	2	1.12%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	2	1.12%
1 out of 10 : Painful	2	1.12%
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll

2009-09-20, 21:16	Link #401
ChibiBear Aim's Stalker ^_~ Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Australia Age: 29	Thank god they didn't animate that scene... I'll never be that immune to violence... __________________ Meow meow nano desu~ Nipah~

2010-01-21, 21:20	Link #402
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Once again I'm lost... Didn't Battler already lose the game? He became Beatrice's slave and was screaming I believe in witches! And then he radomply pops up saying "I'm not done yet?" Just WTF? Like this he will never lose! Battler: I'm dead... I became a slave... Wait! I still can come back and claim that I still don't believe! I'm completly lost in this series @_@ And with the whole "text will be red if I lie", where is the proof that she was saying the truth? The magic was created by her so she could twist it whatever way she could and yet it almost never crossed his mind! Somehow I had liked 1st version of actions more... it gave more suspence and curiousity. Now out of nowhere servents have some special abilities, we have walking zombies (Kanon)... I hope that 3rd version will be a bit more interesting... __________________ My anime list

2010-01-21, 21:36	Link #404
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Then he can temporaly accept them till the end of the world, there will be no winner then. If he said he believes once, then he does. First word is the one that counts. He gave up in the middle of everything, he had lost and doesn't deserve a chance to continue, he had already admited defeat. Somehow for such twisted, cruel and calculative witch, Beatrice is being way too soft and dumb with him. She could celebraye her victory long time ago -_- Sigh... will take a look at arc 3 then, I hope that it really will become clearer, thanks __________________ My anime list

2010-01-21, 21:54	Link #406
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Well at some point it does make sence but still? He can easilly say "I'm having a dream" and that's it. Beatrice will never win at this point. Besides she is a sadist, for him saying same "I can fly" already should be enough. If I were on her place, I so would record it and then would play it all over again to show his lose. And if he would resist, I would call hima a sore loser and so on... I don't know... maybe I'm thinking differently or something, but through all those episodes I almost always saw Beatrice winning, she really should make better use of his words. __________________ My anime list

2010-01-21, 21:28	Link #403
Tjfarmer I'm almost there! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bay Area, California Age: 30	Battler temporarily accepted witches, but he came back and decided to fight back once he saw what was happening to Rosa... Red text is the truth, and essentially its one of the only ways to know what is really going on. Umineko IS a mystery, just told through fantasy. Red Text counts as the clues for the series, along with anything Battler sees (before it turns October 6th, or until he gets drunk. It depends on how you want to explain the ending to the second arc.) And if you're still confused after arc 3, I might explain in more depth on whats going on...

2010-01-21, 21:42	Link #405
Tjfarmer I'm almost there! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bay Area, California Age: 30	I can say "I believe I can fly!" but then when I see someone try to fly by jumping over a canyon, I'll know I can't fly. Battler can say "Dammit I believe in witches now!" but then when he sees someone else who doesn't want to accept Beatrice, he can go and say "I don't believe in witches anymore!" because of a new resolve. (not that great of an analogy, but I came up with it on the spot )

2010-01-21, 21:56	Link #407
Thunder Book Endless Member Join Date: Oct 2009	I think it's kind of weird you'd think Beatrice would win. To me, one of the main themes of When They Cry has been about defeating nearly impossible odds.

2010-01-21, 22:02	Link #408
Tjfarmer I'm almost there! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bay Area, California Age: 30	There could also be a reason why Beatrice didn't end the game after Battler admitted he accepted witches. Opinions can go either way; Beatrice wanted to torture Battler more/still continue the game Ryukishi wanted to continue the story even more, so he ignored a plot hole to do so Something is not as it seems It would be bad to end it now, with no true answer Most of this will probably be answered for you as you continue the series, but you'll have to pick up clues to see which one is true....

2010-01-21, 22:10	Link #409
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Thunder Book The only real thing that stops Beatrice from winning is the fact that she is a villian who needs to lose. That much is obviouse. For me author just makes her lose look kinda random and stupid... Tjfarmer At the moment 2nd suggestion seems the most realistic for me Beatrice looked way too suprised when Battler came back...but who knows, maybe she really wanted more fun... Well will see, there are only 2 more scenarios left for me to complain about if something But I hope to get clear answer in the end So wait for me at 18th episode thread now __________________ My anime list