(L) Last Exile -Fam, The Silver Wing-

[Joachim1167]

@Leokiko

Gotcha. *thumbs up*

@everyone

On a side note. Ya know, if you put Lavie in the pilot's seat and made Claus the navigator, you'd kinda end up with the Fam/Gisey dynamic. Just a thought that's been running through my head since Second Adjournment...

[Myssa Rei]

This week, on Last Exile!

Spoiler for Episode 16:

Well, this turned out as some people predicted, though at the very least we're given a peek at the similar, yet different, perspectives of Orang and Sorush, and why the former eventually turned when he did, yet the latter continued on his course despite knowing it would either alienate him or lead him to his doom. It all boiled down I suppose to what was one really willing to sacrifice to get peace.

Fam gets her moment here, and we see something similar to Claus' first sortie in an armed vanship. However we see here that, despite being in a situation where she could very well die, Fam hesitates. Okay, she's never shot at anyone before, but I'd think when someone was shooting at you to KILL you, you'd at least defend yourself. It's war, after all.

Frustrated, Fam goes back to her old standby: if she can't shoot at the enemy, then she can just do what she normally did, and take their ships instead. They're pirates, not soldiers... Except this time around, even their normal tactics don't work on Sorush at all. Great contribution, Fam and friends, but I suppose the effort counts in itself.

I kind of pity Sara at this point. Seeing Sorush go down really did a number on her.

So the Alliance has won Boreas, but despite all this Luscinia isn't fazed. As he mentions to Alauda, their path had been set since that day ten years before, and all they have to do is to see things through to the end. More mysterious brooding shots of Liliana, and again I REALLY have to wonder what's going on in that head of hers.

Dio and Alvis are back, though the preview implies that Dio's VERY hurt (unless those arms were from a different person).

Take note that previews from this series have been misleading before, so it might just be nothing. I hope.

[leokiko]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

This week, on Last Exile!

Spoiler for Episode 16:

Well, this turned out as some people predicted, though at the very least we're given a peek at the similar, yet different, perspectives of Orang and Sorush, and why the former eventually turned when he did, yet the latter continued on his course despite knowing it would either alienate him or lead him to his doom. It all boiled down I suppose to what was one really willing to sacrifice to get peace.

Fam gets her moment here, and we see something similar to Claus' first sortie in an armed vanship. However we see here that, despite being in a situation where she could very well die, Fam hesitates. Okay, she's never shot at anyone before, but I'd think when someone was shooting at you to KILL you, you'd at least defend yourself. It's war, after all.

Frustrated, Fam goes back to her old standby: if she can't shoot at the enemy, then she can just do what she normally did, and take their ships instead. They're pirates, not soldiers... Except this time around, even their normal tactics don't work on Sorush at all. Great contribution, Fam and friends, but I suppose the effort counts in itself.

I kind of pity Sara at this point. Seeing Sorush go down really did a number on her.

So the Alliance has won Boreas, but despite all this Luscinia isn't fazed. As he mentions to Alauda, their path had been set since that day ten years before, and all they have to do is to see things through to the end. More mysterious brooding shots of Liliana, and again I REALLY have to wonder what's going on in that head of hers.

Dio and Alvis are back, though the preview implies that Dio's VERY hurt (unless those arms were from a different person).

Take note that previews from this series have been misleading before, so it might just be nothing. I hope.

Spoiler:

C'mon, he's barely hurt. If he was THAT hurt, he wouldn't even be on a Vanship.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by leokiko

Spoiler:

C'mon, he's barely hurt. If he was THAT hurt, he wouldn't even be on a Vanship.

Spoiler for ~:

There's always something implied when a character, and an injured one at that, hugs his own abdomen. That's why I'm worried.

[leokiko]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

Spoiler for ~:

There's always something implied when a character, and an injured one at that, hugs his own abdomen. That's why I'm worried.

Well, that's true.

[Mgz]

Fam is being typical Fam again... sigh...

[nick2951]

Is it too much to ask that Luscinia at least get angry when he gets defeated?

As for Fam......could there be a possibility that she is important in some way? Her background (parents) are still not known so maybe there some hidden aspect to her?

Or we just have another Van from FF12 in fact that he minor to the story even though he was the main character.

[leokiko]

Originally Posted by nick2951

Is it too much to ask that Luscinia at least get angry when he gets defeated?

He obviously has an awesome weapon at his disposal so I'm sure he doesn't care if he lose a bit of his main fleet.

Originally Posted by nick2951

As for Fam......could there be a possibility that she is important in some way? Her background (parents) are still not known so maybe there some hidden aspect to her?

Or we just have another Van from FF12 in fact that he minor to the story even though he was the main character.

It's implied she has some kind of backstory, but I don't like her so I hope she turns out like the useless Van from FF12 (which I also hated).

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by leokiko

He obviously has an awesome weapon at his disposal so I'm sure he doesn't care if he lose a bit of his main fleet.

You mean the super-Exile thing he found which made him very very very happy?

[Angmartas]

I may be alone in that camp, but I'd be more annoyed if Sara didn't stay pissed at Vasant for at least a while. For all that she's one of the good guys and among my favorites (the Ades generals cast), Vasant has been doing an absolutely craptastic job of handling Sara. She means well, but she keeps forgetting the one thing that Fam, for once, immediately caught on: she might have a title and a nifty hairdress, but Sara's a ten year old orphan.

Vasant starts out as part of the problem. When her conscience kicks in (over her dead countrymen, not Sara, who had by that point failed to be enough for her to speak up thrice), she dumps it on the poor kid all at once, complete with pictures, and asks her to agree to kill basically everyone she grew up with. Then instead of focusing her speeches on, say, peace, putting an end to the war, or whatever could be a decent goal, she chooses to focus them on killing Luscinia. That's all well and good Vasant, except Sara, the little girl Luscinia carted around as a kid and who runs to him arms out when he returns home? She's right here. And by the way, you're speaking for her through the whole meeting. Actually, you're speaking for her pretty much all the time. Way to go.

All this from the person who thought riding on Kayvan's shoulder was risky.

Even Alauda, of all people, managed to think of Sara first thing when Sadri sent news of the rebellion. Was it for tactical reasons? Probably (though that's debatable, since all it would've done is draw everyone's attention). But Vasant keeps passing Sara over even when thinking tactically. Whose bright idea was it to take Sara to Boreas at all, knowing it would be a battle site, and one with people she loved on both sides to boot? How was this supposed to not end in total disaster?

You know you fail at paying attention to someone when Fam and Alauda do it better than you...

For the record, Vasant's utter failure in this (and the moments it punches her in the gut, like when she stumbles on Sara playing with Fam) is one of the reasons I like her as a character. She's the protagonist's side of the Luscinia coin: good intentions, terrible execution, with the Augusta as an excuse. Sweeping it under the table as okay because Luscinia did worse (nevermind that nobody knows what Luscinia is doing) would be a waste of a perfectly good flawed character.

[encia]

@ Angmartas

Other generals should follow Sara Augusta's wishes not follow Luscinia. Luscinia and other generals doesn't show the real situation and the implementation to Sara Augusta. When the truth was shown, Sara has acted appropriately.

Luscinia has lied to Sara Augusta in relation to the recent purging of Luscinia's political rivals and has a pattern of lying.

Stating "Gloria Augusta" is meaningless if the generals didn't follow Sara Augusta.

Anyway, Luscinia promptly dumps Sara when He reached the northern lands i.e. He used Sara to reach his true goals.

[leokiko]

Originally Posted by LystAP

You mean the super-Exile thing he found which made him very very very happy?

Yep, that's the one

Originally Posted by Angmartas

I may be alone in that camp, but I'd be more annoyed if Sara didn't stay pissed at Vasant for at least a while. For all that she's one of the good guys and among my favorites (the Ades generals cast), Vasant has been doing an absolutely craptastic job of handling Sara. She means well, but she keeps forgetting the one thing that Fam, for once, immediately caught on: she might have a title and a nifty hairdress, but Sara's a ten year old orphan.

Vasant starts out as part of the problem. When her conscience kicks in (over her dead countrymen, not Sara, who had by that point failed to be enough for her to speak up thrice), she dumps it on the poor kid all at once, complete with pictures, and asks her to agree to kill basically everyone she grew up with. Then instead of focusing her speeches on, say, peace, putting an end to the war, or whatever could be a decent goal, she chooses to focus them on killing Luscinia. That's all well and good Vasant, except Sara, the little girl Luscinia carted around as a kid and who runs to him arms out when he returns home? She's right here. And by the way, you're speaking for her through the whole meeting. Actually, you're speaking for her pretty much all the time. Way to go.

All this from the person who thought riding on Kayvan's shoulder was risky.

Even Alauda, of all people, managed to think of Sara first thing when Sadri sent news of the rebellion. Was it for tactical reasons? Probably (though that's debatable, since all it would've done is draw everyone's attention). But Vasant keeps passing Sara over even when thinking tactically. Whose bright idea was it to take Sara to Boreas at all, knowing it would be a battle site, and one with people she loved on both sides to boot? How was this supposed to not end in total disaster?

You know you fail at paying attention to someone when Fam and Alauda do it better than you...

For the record, Vasant's utter failure in this (and the moments it punches her in the gut, like when she stumbles on Sara playing with Fam) is one of the reasons I like her as a character. She's the protagonist's side of the Luscinia coin: good intentions, terrible execution, with the Augusta as an excuse. Sweeping it under the table as okay because Luscinia did worse (nevermind that nobody knows what Luscinia is doing) would be a waste of a perfectly good flawed character.

So, you are saying it's better to blind her of everything that is happening than to actually show that to her? I agree that Vasant has exposuring her to too much crap, and it could be done better, but it still pisses me off that Sara is pissed with her. Vasant is only person that DIDN'T try to do things behind her back, and is actually showing her how they are going to proceed.

[encia]

Originally Posted by leokiko

Yep, that's the one

So, you are saying it's better to blind her of everything that is happening than to actually show that to her? I agree that Vasant has exposuring her to too much crap, and it could be done better, but it still pisses me off that Sara is pissed with her. Vasant is only person that DIDN'T try to do things behind her back, and is actually showing her how they are going to proceed.

Spoiler for ..:

Sara didn't like the outcome and just upset with the whole situation i.e. Sorush getting *killed*.... by Orang i.e. Orang's fleet weapons fire caused the land bridge to collapse and which resulted Sorush's ship running into the side of the mountain.

Sara is probably regretting that she didn't control the whole situation i.e. it's a growth phase for Sara's character.

Sorush should have talked directly to Sara i.e. ignore Luscinia/Admiral's orders.

[Angmartas]

@ encia

I never said Luscinia did good by Sara or told her what was going on. I said that Vasant was doing too little too late, and badly to boot, and that it'd be a shame if the series ended up painting it as good just because the antagonist did worse. Two wrongs don't make a right, etc. None of the Generals are following Sara, Vasant included. If they did, there'd be no war going on at all. All of Sara's orders, so far, either came from Luscinia or Vasant, never Sara herself. All Sara got to do was sign papers and wish everyone would just stop fighting.

Jury's still out on whether or not Luscinia truly dropped Sara or the former Augusta - I'm waiting until I see what he found, what it does and what he'll use it for first. But I completely agree with you that he dragged her into this mess by proxy in any case and that the body count it took to get there is ridiculous. I don't want to see his crap swept under the table either!


@ leokiko:

Well, Vasant did go behind Sara's back up until the Keios provincial fleet got destroyed, if we want to nitpick, and though she did tell Sara what was going on in the end, she's still doing all the decision-making in her place, which makes informing her kind of moot. Vasant's doing a great job at thinking of the Augusta's reputation, but completely forgetting that there's a child under the fancy title. She's also forgetting it with Millia. (Yes, I'm one of the two and a half people who think that Fam, for all of her myriad failures, had the right of it when she interrupted the meeting-turned-lynch-mob.)

But as I said above, I'm not calling for a witch hunt on Vasant - I love Vasant. I just hope that her failure to truly consider Sara beyond her status as Augusta doesn't get conveniently forgotten or solved in five seconds the way the "seeing Giselle beyond her Navigator status" thing was. This season's been handing us lose/lose situations and morally gray people that were mostly absent from season 1, and I don't want it to go to waste. If all the "bad generals" die and all the "good generals" are painted as doing the best possible thing, it'll just feel cheap. I'm kind of hoping everybody lives and we get people standing on trial for once instead of the usual "all is forgiven" or "the bad guys die in battle" endings.

Pipe dream, I know.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Angmartas

None of the Generals are following Sara

Sara is a child, you said it yourself. How can Vasant do what Sara wants if what she wants is everyone to be happy and rainbows and unicorns? Vasant can't do that, because Luscinia is already out there killing people and digging up a doomsday machine that he'll probably use to burn the world to cinders.

There's only one thing Vasant can do at this point: go up there and stop Luscinia, and that's exactly what she's doing. It's not what Sara wants, and she knows it. But Luscinia won't stop not matter what (his maniacal laughter in episode 16 shows that clear enough) so there's no other choice.

[-|(aGe-BuNsHiN-]

probably a bit late since you are all talking about episode 16....but the 15.5 recap just made me realize how S2 "bright and light" the series has become.

For a lack for a better word, this series seems like a chick flick where every single character of some importance is an emotional girl...except for perhaps Dio. They can make a show very good even with an female lead/cast (Claymore) but they seemed to have gone for the lets-sing kumbaya and make up approach. Anyone else agree or am I being a stereotypical chauvinist?

[Angmartas]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Sara is a child, you said it yourself. How can Vasant do what Sara wants if what she wants is everyone to be happy and rainbows and unicorns? Vasant can't do that, because Luscinia is already out there killing people and digging up a doomsday machine that he'll probably use to burn the world to cinders.

There's only one thing Vasant can do at this point: go up there and stop Luscinia, and that's exactly what she's doing. It's not what Sara wants, and she knows it. But Luscinia won't stop not matter what (his maniacal laughter in episode 16 shows that clear enough) so there's no other choice.

I'm not criticizing Vasant taking action, but the way in which she's doing it. Vasant is waging war in the Augusta's name, raising her flag and claiming that she is doing it all to protect the Augusta's feelings and wishes, when Sara herself doesn't want any of it. It was wrong when Luscinia did it, and it's still wrong now. Vasant shouldn't get a free pass to "Gloria Augusta" because the enemies are worse. If she wants to do what she thinks is best, then she should be doing things in her own name and capacity as general, or as part of the alliance. If she's going to bypass Sara, the least she could do is stop stamping her name on things.

As for the doomsday machine, I'll keep waiting on that (I'm speaking purely as a viewer here of course - in-universe, it obviously can't be waited on). Luscinia's still counting those sin beads while talking to himself, Liliana's still going along, and for doomsday they've already got an Exile. If they went through all this trouble for something they can already do and Liliana thinks burning the world to cinders is just peachy, someone needs to kick whoever wrote the plot. I'm choosing to give the writers some credit instead and to believe they came up with something better than that.

...Yes, I'm probably dreaming on that one, too.

[Graveyard Duck]

Spoiler for Luscinia's intentions:

Luscinia's soliloquy at the end of the episode, concerning the intent of the Exile program, seems to suggest that he's trying to forcibly deport the returnees from Earth using whatever he's found. This could be a much preferred method to genocide (or maybe not--such forced exodus can be just a slow death sentence), which could be one reason he wasn't really in a hurry to implement any ethnic cleansing program aside from the provincial fleets.

As for the combat

Spoiler for Episode 16:

I guess we've found a narrative reason why Anatoray still hasn't joined the battle: Disith ships, with their high altitude and bottom concentrated cannons, would likely crush the Ades ships in a fleet battle.

And then

Spoiler for Ep 17 predictions:

1. As Myssa Rei mentions, the end of this episode and the next episode preview suggest that Dio is hurt badly. Then again, I wouldn't put it past the creators to have the scene really portraying that Dio is really really hungry after the long flight. It's just so wrong to kill him now after his surviving the first series.

On a different note, I wonder how the Glaciens are going to react to the fact that Orang's fleet is now part of the alliance. Dyan was rather adamant about sortieing against the 3rd fleet directly, but she seems to be taking it fairly well judging by the next episode preview.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Angmartas

I'm not criticizing Vasant taking action, but the way in which she's doing it. Vasant is waging war in the Augusta's name, raising her flag and claiming that she is doing it all to protect the Augusta's feelings and wishes, when Sara herself doesn't want any of it. It was wrong when Luscinia did it, and it's still wrong now. Vasant shouldn't get a free pass to "Gloria Augusta" because the enemies are worse. If she wants to do what she thinks is best, then she should be doing things in her own name and capacity as general, or as part of the alliance. If she's going to bypass Sara, the least she could do is stop stamping her name on things.

Ah ok. Now I get where you're coming from.

That been said, I think it's quite possible that Vasant is using Sara's name to gain the credibility that she wouldn't have as just a general. I would even say that there wouldn't be any alliance in the first place if Vasant didn't use Sara's name to sort of "legalize" what she's doing.

Is what she's doing with Sara wrong? Yes. But there's a lot more at stake than Sara's emotional well-being (this is war), and if I'm right about the need to gain credibility then she really didn't have much of a choice to being with.

[Cloudy]

After watching ep 17, I feel that Gonzo should might as well rename LE: Fam to LE: The Ades War with Fam not that significant to the storyline as of now.