AnimeSuki Forums

Terrestrial Dream · 2012-09-10, 21:59

Lets not make a joke about person dying.

sa547 · 2012-09-10, 22:05

Japan to buy disputed islands, angering China

*facepalms* Oh, shit.

Vexx · 2012-09-10, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa547

Japan to buy disputed islands, angering China

*facepalms* Oh, shit.

Okay.. these are a few spits of land. Assuming insanity isn't a driver here of Japan and China --- what are the natural resources in the area that are the *real* driver for the squabbling?

Ithekro · 2012-09-10, 22:24

Fishing waters (important for a nation that's national waters are becoming less and less inhabited by fish).

Aside from that....?

SaintessHeart · 2012-09-10, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Okay.. these are a few spits of land. Assuming insanity isn't a driver here of Japan and China --- what are the natural resources in the area that are the *real* driver for the squabbling?

Fish? Gas? Oil?

Most of it produce hot and dirty air anyway.

Terrestrial Dream · 2012-09-10, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Fish? Gas? Oil?

Most of it produce hot and dirty air anyway.

Isn't there lot of natural gases?

Cosmic Eagle · 2012-09-10, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Okay.. these are a few spits of land. Assuming insanity isn't a driver here of Japan and China --- what are the natural resources in the area that are the *real* driver for the squabbling?

Face....

And maybe setting up a secret submarine pen in the area? That one is quite far out though. Better to do that in Hainan than in enemy territory.

SaintessHeart · 2012-09-10, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

Isn't there lot of natural gases?

Fish or gas, it seems more like face that is the one raising the stink.

SeijiSensei · 2012-09-10, 22:54

I found looking at this map from Google very instructive.

Look at how Senkaku moves the (disputed) Japanese boundary substantially westward into the East China Sea. Most of the Ryukyu chain runs southwest along the crest of the volcanic ridge so clearly visible in the satellite photograph. Now look at where Senkaku lies. It is well west of Ryukyu chain and much closer to both China and Taiwan, the other two claimants for the islands. The islands themselves might not be much, but that strategic location coupled with international maritime rights and boundaries gives Japan a presence it would not otherwise have in the more navigable part of the Sea. Just looking at the situation geographically suggests that clear Japanese possession of puny Senkaku could have rather important strategic implications.

Evil Rick · 2012-09-11, 00:04

As if it was not surrising enough, the USA Border Patrol at Texas shoot and killed another Mexican citizen at the side of Rio Grande, the patrol agents claimed that from the Mexican side the man in question throwed rocks at them and pointed them with a gun, justifying this way the act.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/07...nt-near-texas/

However, today was revaled a video from the Mexican side at the moment of the incident, revealing a very shoking truth, the man in question was a father who was celebrating the birthday from his 10yr old son and in the video everyone is able to see perfectly clear how none is throwing rocks neitehr pointing a gun at the patrol, in fact, you can see the place is actually full of kids who were celebrating the birthday party. The patrol agents just appeared in front of the party, opened fire with no warning and then like a bunch of coward rats decided to escape. BTW, every mexican citizen was in the Mexican side of the river.

sa547 · 2012-09-11, 00:22

I can't say anything, other than there's a lot of stupid and xenophobia involved.

MrTerrorist · 2012-09-11, 00:57

UK laptop designer Bill Moggridge dies

Our condolences. And thank you sir for creating one of the best inventions mankind ever had.

Ithekro · 2012-09-11, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I found looking at this map from Google very instructive.

Look at how Senkaku moves the (disputed) Japanese boundary substantially westward into the East China Sea. Most of the Ryukyu chain runs southwest along the crest of the volcanic ridge so clearly visible in the satellite photograph. Now look at where Senkaku lies. It is well west of Ryukyu chain and much closer to both China and Taiwan, the other two claimants for the islands. The islands themselves might not be much, but that strategic location coupled with international maritime rights and boundaries gives Japan a presence it would not otherwise have in the more navigable part of the Sea. Just looking at the situation geographically suggests that clear Japanese possession of puny Senkaku could have rather important strategic implications.

If I recall that last country to official control those islands was the United States, who mostly gave them back to Japan in 1972. It was classified as a spoils of war from the Second World War and held by the United States because China was unstable in the last 1940s and basically an enemy since the 1950s. It would have reverted to Taiwan, but since Nixon opened China in 1972 (and the last Japanese soldier stopped fighting the Allies), the United States could not hand the islands over to Taiwan as it would defacto be turning them over to China...so they reverted to the last Asian owner of the islands...the Japanese.

Since then the US has been more or less hands off and not taking sides when it comes to those islands and the dispute. It has been sort of a "as long as China doesn't hold them and they aren't upset in a military fashion at Japan over them....we don't officially care".

TinyRedLeaf · 2012-09-11, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa547

Japan to buy disputed islands, angering China

*facepalms* Oh, shit.

Why face-palm? I think it's very fair, given that it's China who effectively upped the ante by unilaterally setting up Sansha City in the South China Sea. And let's not forget how China has virtually plotted to undermine Asean's effort to create a collective front on the issue, through its "special" relationship with Cambodia.

As far as I'm concerned, China is the clear "villain" here. Call me biased if you wish, but that's how I read the situation. It's a case of an emerging power trying to bully smaller powers in the region into submission while trying to stake its new backyard.

I've been "moderate" towards China's rise for a very long time, but its actions in recent years have forced me to re-evaluate my stance. I am increasingly of the opinion that China needs to be contained, to hell with what its strident Foreign Ministry may claim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Okay.. these are a few spits of land. Assuming insanity isn't a driver here of Japan and China --- what are the natural resources in the area that are the *real* driver for the squabbling?

I think it's obvious what the *real* driver was all along. This:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I found looking at this map from Google very instructive.

...The islands themselves might not be much, but that strategic location coupled with international maritime rights and boundaries gives Japan a presence it would not otherwise have in the more navigable part of the Sea. Just looking at the situation geographically suggests that clear Japanese possession of puny Senkaku could have rather important strategic implications.

Students of realpolitik shouldn't be too surprised. There are very modern precedents for what is going on: just take a look at the United States' history in the Caribbean, for example.

SaintessHeart · 2012-09-11, 01:39

@TRL : You are getting slow as you get old. A number of your fellow countrymen keeping constantly in touch with geopolitics have already evaluated and switched their stances.

Nonetheless, China still has the upper hand here with regards to special relationships in ASEAN; Cambodia isn't the only one, Myanmar, Vietnam and the country you are living in have special relationships AND political infiltrations aplenty.

Sumeragi · 2012-09-11, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

If I recall that last country to official control those islands was the United States, who mostly gave them back to Japan in 1972. It was classified as a spoils of war from the Second World War and held by the United States because China was unstable in the last 1940s and basically an enemy since the 1950s. It would have reverted to Taiwan, but since Nixon opened China in 1972 (and the last Japanese soldier stopped fighting the Allies), the United States could not hand the islands over to Taiwan as it would defacto be turning them over to China...so they reverted to the last Asian owner of the islands...the Japanese.

I explained this before: Chiang, when he was the sole legitimate leader of China, gave up those islands along with the Ryukyus at Cairo. Even supposing PRC was never able to win, the US has no real reason to turn over islands which had been refused.

Cosmic Eagle · 2012-09-11, 01:42

Of course they (PRC) were utterly silent before the 1970s. Even their own mouthpiece paper described the Senkakus as part of the Ryukyus group.

Ithekro · 2012-09-11, 01:54

Well before the 1970s those islands were in the hands of the United States. Up until then, China was not willing to go toe to toe with a Superpower outside of mainland Asia where they could overwhelm with manpower. By the 1970s China had the core of a reasonable nuclear deturrent, enough for the US to finally start talking to them like they really existed (before that "China", as far as the Western Powers were concerned, was Taiwan, all the way up to the UN security council seat). But also because by the 1970s, China and the Soviet Union were not getting along at all. Nixon and various Western Powers hoped that by openning up to China they could make even more of a wedge between the two largest communist counties and keep them from forming a united front against the Americans, Western Europeans, Japan, and other allied nations around the world.

But, the West would not simply hand anything to China...so the islands reverted to its last Asian owner....Japan. However the dispute remains due to other factors. If the Japanese can seal this deal, maybe the official part of them owning it will be established...even if China claims otherwise.

Besides, at this point it time, it is better for the Western Power to have Japan hold that territory rather than China as it gives the Western Powers that much more of a maritime extention to keep the growing Chinese Navy in check.

Terrestrial Dream · 2012-09-11, 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Of course they (PRC) were utterly silent before the 1970s. Even their own mouthpiece paper described the Senkakus as part of the Ryukyus group.

So lets just bring back Ryukyu Kingdom and give the island to them, problem solved

.

SaintessHeart · 2012-09-11, 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

So lets just bring back Ryukyu Kingdom and give the island to them, problem solved

.

The problem is we would have all those "nationalist"sentiments back and would lose chances where national idol units give out their panties......

2012-09-10, 21:59	Link #23321
Terrestrial Dream 勇者 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tesla Leicht Institute Age: 34	Lets not make a joke about person dying. __________________

2012-09-10, 22:05	Link #23322
sa547 Senior Member Author Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philippines Age: 47	Japan to buy disputed islands, angering China facepalms Oh, shit. __________________

2012-09-10, 22:24	Link #23324
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Fishing waters (important for a nation that's national waters are becoming less and less inhabited by fish). Aside from that....? __________________

2012-09-10, 22:54	Link #23329
SeijiSensei AS Oji-kun Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 74	I found looking at this map from Google very instructive. Look at how Senkaku moves the (disputed) Japanese boundary substantially westward into the East China Sea. Most of the Ryukyu chain runs southwest along the crest of the volcanic ridge so clearly visible in the satellite photograph. Now look at where Senkaku lies. It is well west of Ryukyu chain and much closer to both China and Taiwan, the other two claimants for the islands. The islands themselves might not be much, but that strategic location coupled with international maritime rights and boundaries gives Japan a presence it would not otherwise have in the more navigable part of the Sea. Just looking at the situation geographically suggests that clear Japanese possession of puny Senkaku could have rather important strategic implications. __________________ Taking Anime Seriously - Politics by the Numbers - Sports by the Numbers - MAL List - Avatars - Images

2012-09-11, 00:04	Link #23330
Evil Rick Black Dragon Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In the Netherrealm, thinking who to betray next...	As if it was not surrising enough, the USA Border Patrol at Texas shoot and killed another Mexican citizen at the side of Rio Grande, the patrol agents claimed that from the Mexican side the man in question throwed rocks at them and pointed them with a gun, justifying this way the act. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/07...nt-near-texas/ However, today was revaled a video from the Mexican side at the moment of the incident, revealing a very shoking truth, the man in question was a father who was celebrating the birthday from his 10yr old son and in the video everyone is able to see perfectly clear how none is throwing rocks neitehr pointing a gun at the patrol, in fact, you can see the place is actually full of kids who were celebrating the birthday party. The patrol agents just appeared in front of the party, opened fire with no warning and then like a bunch of coward rats decided to escape. BTW, every mexican citizen was in the Mexican side of the river. <p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/sW68x20i4hM">watch on YouTube</a>.</p> __________________ Last edited by Evil Rick; 2012-09-11 at 00:55. Reason: Correcting typos

2012-09-11, 00:22	Link #23331
sa547 Senior Member Author Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philippines Age: 47	I can't say anything, other than there's a lot of stupid and xenophobia involved. __________________

2012-09-11, 00:57	Link #23332
MrTerrorist Takao Tsundere Cruiser Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Classified	UK laptop designer Bill Moggridge dies Our condolences. And thank you sir for creating one of the best inventions mankind ever had. __________________

2012-09-11, 01:39	Link #23335
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	@TRL : You are getting slow as you get old. A number of your fellow countrymen keeping constantly in touch with geopolitics have already evaluated and switched their stances. Nonetheless, China still has the upper hand here with regards to special relationships in ASEAN; Cambodia isn't the only one, Myanmar, Vietnam and the country you are living in have special relationships AND political infiltrations aplenty. __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

2012-09-11, 01:42	Link #23337
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	Of course they (PRC) were utterly silent before the 1970s. Even their own mouthpiece paper described the Senkakus as part of the Ryukyus group. __________________

2012-09-11, 01:54	Link #23338
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Well before the 1970s those islands were in the hands of the United States. Up until then, China was not willing to go toe to toe with a Superpower outside of mainland Asia where they could overwhelm with manpower. By the 1970s China had the core of a reasonable nuclear deturrent, enough for the US to finally start talking to them like they really existed (before that "China", as far as the Western Powers were concerned, was Taiwan, all the way up to the UN security council seat). But also because by the 1970s, China and the Soviet Union were not getting along at all. Nixon and various Western Powers hoped that by openning up to China they could make even more of a wedge between the two largest communist counties and keep them from forming a united front against the Americans, Western Europeans, Japan, and other allied nations around the world. But, the West would not simply hand anything to China...so the islands reverted to its last Asian owner....Japan. However the dispute remains due to other factors. If the Japanese can seal this deal, maybe the official part of them owning it will be established...even if China claims otherwise. Besides, at this point it time, it is better for the Western Power to have Japan hold that territory rather than China as it gives the Western Powers that much more of a maritime extention to keep the growing Chinese Navy in check. __________________