Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Rising Dragon]

I have to agree with Nutype here, really. There is more evidence of Lelouch being dead rather than alive, and people have been known to talk to people who aren't really there in this series.

But even still, its left up to us on what happened in the end, and fighting about it isn't gonna do us any good, and only piss off the mods.

[nutype]

Originally Posted by Lilslugga

There's plenty of evidence have you not been paying attention?

Ive read though all the 'evidence' if you call it that. It's terrible and not enough to convince anyone who has an open mind

[Utau]

Originally Posted by Hiku

As for how he lives on as Zero, that is his punishment and atonement for what he did in the past. Kururugi Suzaku is dead, and instead he lives a new life of serving the people of the world.

i wanted to say this couple pages back but couldnt b'coz it got flooded with 10's of pages. but since it came up again..

i thought the punishment was, he was the one who must kill Lelouch.

killing your only best friend, who has been a part of your family is not an easy or simple task. the only family he has left is Lelouch and Nunnally. Living as Zero is another thing.. of punishment but a little lesser.

[nutype]

Originally Posted by Hiku

Can you explain how Nunnaly received those visions when she touched Lelouch hand? Without interpretation?
Same for how all of this granted C.C.'s wish.

I first thought that Lelouch died, even when reading some theories on his survival. But now I can't deny the possibility that he is alive, nor that it would make more sense in C.C.'s case of continued life. But I won't be sure either way until it is shown in an OVA or extended ending.

honestly i dont think anyone can answer these questions because frankly they were never explained. It's Taniguchi's fault. They didnt explain the nature of geass or this code stuff. That's my honest answer and if anyone tells you like they know what the 'codes' were they are full of it.

In season 1 CC, lulu and suz had code related seizures which were also never explained.

[ReinhartX]

Spoiler:

does any1 think xingke is dead as well??? he doesnt appear in the picture

[Jibade]

I wonder what future Mina took, I am guessing she is doing good will missions.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Hiku

I honestly don't know what to believe. When I first watched I simply thought he had died, but after going through it a few times and reading peoples thoughts, I can't deny that there is a possibility he survived. But I won't be sure of anything until I see a possible OVA or extension of the ending on the DVD.

But for me it's not as simple as "So he's dead, that was the $hit! = So he's probably still alive, that was the $hit! "

This isn't speaking in denial, but something that I wondered about even when I thought he was dead. The promise made to C.C. to return and make her smile, I don't understand how Lelouch death would fulfill that promise. While C.C. showed signs of finding happiness, she still told Kallen that she wanted to end the experience called accumulation. One could guess that the changed and improved world could have motivated her to live on, but there's too little supporting this from what we saw. When Lelouch found out her wish, it seemed to me that it wasn't about her suffering from the circumstances of the world. I'm not sure if the nun was troubled by the worlds circumstances or not, but Code bearers were portrayed as being tired of life rather than troubled by the shape the world was in.
When Lelouch told her that he knew her real wish, I thought it was because she never found true love. She had the Geass to be loved, but never knew if someone loved her for her, or for the Geass.
Another thing that supports this being her wish and not the circumstances of the world is when she asked Lelouch to say her name lovingly, when they were inside the cave.

So if an improved world really was what she now wanted, then I would have liked to see some sign of this in the anime. And to be happy in this world without Lelouch makes it harder for me to understand why she would be happy.

If she really wanted to die, Lelouch could have taken her Code from her. So it seems like for some reason, she decided that she wanted to live.
So the question is why.

The question is the answer...By giving no concrete explanation or obtuse motif you keep the door open for subjective longing by certain fans and possible new content from the studios...Think about everything you're asking in this passage...Does Lulu's arguable ambiguous ending makes those other questions go away or easier to swallow? There wasn't enuff time in this series to answer small details like the ones your addressing because the project was obviously rushed (Please Geass Faction whom believe in Sunrise please ignore this)...Then you're gonna get the people who claim to understand this show soooooo much better than you and point out some gumshoe detail 20 eps ago that kinda sorta maybe proves their point...Sometimes series should be more definite than that; more conclusive...,and while I love many shows that end with an expressionistic finale than leaves things to interpretation, Code Geass just isn't the kind of show that does well with this technique because of their overriding thematic dynamic that puts 90% of the plot into twisting the audience...You can't still twist the audience at the conclusion can you? Can't you just conclude? The audience is now fighting over fact and fiction because of the lack of a true conclusion (which would encompass answering your question about C.C.'s wish for love)...The side who's right, will never know if they ever were right to begin with, but when that OVA drops so will their masks^^...

[NoLongerSane]

To answer ReinhartX question, he is alive. His mech was there when Oughi was meeting with Nunnally and Zero. And I probably doubt they could have found a sutible pilot for that type of mech in that time frame.

[Lilslugga]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

No, it wasn't. Lelouch got stabbed through the heart. He did not survive that unless he had a Code. If he had a Code, it had to be given to him by C.C. since he didn't get one from Charles. We know he didn't get it from Charles because he still had Geass during the episodes following that event. We also know he didn't get a Code from C.C. because she remembers everything at the end, and we know from both V.V. losing his Code and C.C. losing her code that the loss of the Code results in the loss of all memories after obtaining Geass. Ergo, Lelouch had no Code at the time he was stabbed, and he is dead. There is no wiggle room with any of this. There is no way in the framework of the series that Lelouch could be alive.

good point but maybe it missed the heart just enough for him to be treated and faked a death. (lol denial)

[Hiku]

Originally Posted by Utau

i wanted to say this couple pages back but couldnt b'coz it got flooded with 10's of pages. but since it came up again..

i thought the punishment was, he was the one who must kill Lelouch.

killing your only best friend, who has been a part of your family is not an easy or simple task. the only family he has left is Lelouch and Nunnally. Living as Zero is another thing.. of punishment but a little lesser.

I suppose that is another reason. Though what Lelouch told him was that this meant that he could no longer live for himself, but now has to serve the people of the world. So I thought that was the punishment. But it could be ether, or both.

[z0rr023]

where is zero in the wedding picture -.-"........

arghhh....code geass is ended finally....-.-=, no more code geass.....
why they can't make code geass like one piece or detective conan which have no ending at all........

[Freya]

Originally Posted by z0rr023

where is zero in the wedding picture -.-"........

arghhh....code geass is ended finally....-.-=, no more code geass.....
why they can't make code geass like one piece or detective conan which have no ending at all........

cause then it would suck

[Jazzrat]

Originally Posted by z0rr023

where is zero in the wedding picture -.-"........

arghhh....code geass is ended finally....-.-=, no more code geass.....
why they can't make code geass like one piece or detective conan which have no ending at all........

And turn it into a geass of the month kinda show?

[Jestersage]

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

And turn it into a geass of the month kinda show?

Fillers? DO NOT WANT.

[Hiku]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

The question is the answer...By giving no concrete explanation or obtuse motif you keep the door open for subjective longing by certain fans and possible new content from the studios...Think about everything you're asking in this passage...Does Lulu's arguable ambiguous ending makes those other questions go away or easier to swallow? There wasn't enuff time in this series to answer small details like the ones your addressing because the project was obviously rushed (Please Geass Faction whom believe in Sunrise please ignore this)...Then you're gonna get the people who claim to understand this show soooooo much better than you and point out some gumshoe detail 20 eps ago that kinda sorta maybe proves their point...Sometimes series should be more definite than that; more conclusive...,and while I love many shows that end with an expressionistic finale than leaves things to interpretation, Code Geass just isn't the kind of show that does well with this technique because of their overriding thematic dynamic that puts 90% of the plot into twisting the audience...You can't still twist the audience at the conclusion can you? Can't you just conclude? The audience is now fighting over fact and fiction because of the lack of a true conclusion (which would encompass answering your question about C.C. wish for love)...The side who's right, will never know if they ever were right to begin with, but when that OVA drops so will there masks^^...

Yeah, you're right. Although I don't know if I'd consider this a small detail since the mystery of her contract (which later became her wish) was introduced since the very beginning. Her unresolved issue that is. And it was as recently as in the previous episode developed on further when she seemed to realise that she may love Lelouch.
So to answer your question if Lelouch ambiguous death makes any of those questions go away, assuming that what she really wanted, her true wish, was to love someone and be loved, and she found that in Lelouch, don't you think Lelouch surviving could be an answer to why she continued to live on?

Originally Posted by z0rr023

where is zero in the wedding picture -.-"........

arghhh....code geass is ended finally....-.-=, no more code geass.....
why they can't make code geass like one piece or detective conan which have no ending at all........

What I was wondering is where is Xing Ke? Perhap's he's just not good enough friends with Ougi or Viletta to be there.

[riwoz]

Poor Conan, he will spend his days stuck in as a child...

[Lilslugga]

I'm already prepare for one piece's 1000th episode

[Utau]

Originally Posted by Hiku

I suppose that is another reason. Though what Lelouch told him was that this meant that he could no longer live for himself, but now has to serve the people of the world. So I thought that was the punishment. But it could be ether, or both.

i haven't seen the subs, i'm only basing this from my interpretation of what he said. again, my japanese understanding is not that good. but judging from what you just said, it sounded more like a responsibility to and to stay by Nunnally's side, protect her just like what he wished last season. Only as a new identity. Suzaku is dead, he can never live that existence again. He is now living Lelouch's entity, Zero.

Originally Posted by z0rr023

where is zero in the wedding picture -.-"........

arghhh....code geass is ended finally....-.-=, no more code geass.....
why they can't make code geass like one piece or detective conan which have no ending at all........

he's a pretty busy guy you know

[Kamina-san]

Truly a bittersweet ending. Good series

[Kurz]

Lelouch is not dead... he is the caravan driver.
Why the hell is caravan driver pretty much masked head to toe?

Lelouch lives on with C.C.
Of course he shuttles her around everywhere.


Well not 100%, its up to you to decide what happen to him.
Oh wells.