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Sixth · 2016-12-01, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

we actually dont know if he was all that lonely,
it seems to me that he followed bakugou because he was so "awesome" but he could have easily make other friends with anyone else :/
it was never said that he was hated by everyone,

it looks like he came off as the type of guy you have in class who wants to do big things (or at least says it) without knowing how and everyone else it just looking at him for being a weird person

Based from the chapter 1, it seems that he doesn't have friends at all except Ka-chan. I really won't be surprised that he had no friends before he entered UA. Did you see how social-awkward he was when he was in UA entrance test?

LevelSeven · 2016-12-01, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixth

Based from the chapter 1, it seems that he doesn't have friends at all except Ka-chan. I really won't be surprised that he had no friends before he entered UA. Did you see how social-awkward he was when he was in UA entrance test?

i know, i didnt said he had any but that he could have made at least a few if he tried,
instead he was following bakugou and became shy towards everyone

Galaxian · 2016-12-01, 11:27

I love how the author toys with our expectations and continues to add layer to his characters. Kacchan and Deku are nothing like what I expected when I started reading this manga and I loved it. Great chapter!

Wandering Soul · 2016-12-01, 12:35

Great chapter. This fight is much deeper than Baku fighting because he feels he can't catch up. He needs this fight to vent out his guilt and learn how to improve himself. He also needs to finally resolve things with Deku.
I'm impressed with the way the author handled these two characters.

ranchan13 · 2016-12-01, 13:12

I'm honestly hoping that this fight leads to some serious growth of maturity for Bakugou. It's that lack of maturity that's holding him back. He's intelligent, he's flashy, he has a powerful quirk. The only thing he lacks in are humility (which he's starting to develop, especially by blaming himself for All Might's retirement) and maturity.

At least he should start seeing Deku very differently after this, but he'll always be Vegeta to Deku's Kakarot

Kanon · 2016-12-01, 15:59

I'm really impressed with Bakugou. He isn't just throwing a tantrum here, he blames himself for the end of All Might's career and he wants to find out if Deku is truly worthy to carry on his legacy.

marvelB · 2016-12-01, 19:23

Like others here, I'm also pleasantly surprised to see more development from Bakugou. Looks like he's really been introspecting himself since All Might's retirement. Wonder if this means he'll become less of an asshole as a result of this fight....?

Sixth · 2016-12-02, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxian

I love how the author toys with our expectations and continues to add layer to his characters. Kacchan and Deku are nothing like what I expected when I started reading this manga and I loved it. Great chapter!

Yup. Bakugou's development in these few chapters had been great. Really hope that after this arc is finished, Bakugou will be more tolerant and stop being ass to Deku.

Diluc · 2016-12-02, 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixth

I actually like this. It is never gets old to see 2 friends/rivals screaming each other name loudly before landing their finishing blow.

I am not denying there that part is not bad and some part in me want to see that because "cool scene".
I suppose Naruto vs Sasuke has tainted that cliche to my mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

didnt they have this in their first fight?

Ouuch now you mention it
back then during AM class i think, yeah them fish fighting only for Deku decoy for Uravity made to goal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxian

I love how the author toys with our expectations and continues to add layer to his characters. Kacchan and Deku are nothing like what I expected when I started reading this manga and I loved it. Great chapter!

What were you expected before?

Sixth · 2016-12-02, 07:15

This just came across my mind.

Why is we keep comparing Bakugou Vs Deku with Naruto Vs Sasuke? Isn't this fight is more like SSJ2Vegeta Vs SSJ2Goku where Vegeta was venting out his frustrations towards Goku?

LevelSeven · 2016-12-02, 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixth

Why is we keep comparing Bakugou Vs Deku with Naruto Vs Sasuke? Isn't this fight is more like SSJ2Vegeta Vs SSJ2Goku where Vegeta was venting out his frustrations towards Goku?

vegeta had a different motivation than bakugou but to answer your question:
i think the reason is that it is the most prominent bromance right now

vegeta had a similar role but despite being "kind of similar" to his former self he is now since over 10+ years one of the good guys, sasukes whole "bad boy"-time is hanging inside the heads of the people

Random14 · 2016-12-02, 19:16

Bakugo's always been determined and in his own honorable, its just that bad attitude that really drags him down. He's not stupid, more hotheaded, and I like that he's feeling guilty about the whole mess. Its not his fault, but still, its due to his "weakness" that these chain of events played out. Raging at Deku is just how he deals with it. Its not right, but that's how he is.

Glad security caught them already, if they hadn't, I would worry even more about their spy problem. AM would be the obvious answer as to who would stop Aizawa, as he let Bakugo get away with venting before, but not sure he could show up in time. And it might be better if he's still off-screen while these two major AM fans fight each other.

And for the Vegeta and Sasuke comparison, if I had to guess, its because Vegeta is from an older series (though still very high profile of course), but also Vegeta started out an enemy who eventually became good, or rather settled down, compared to Sasuke starting out as the rival then going full-blown enemy, which is slightly closer to Bakugo's situation.

ReddyRedWolf · 2016-12-03, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

I'm really impressed with Bakugou. He isn't just throwing a tantrum here, he blames himself for the end of All Might's career and he wants to find out if Deku is truly worthy to carry on his legacy.

I disagree on wanting to see if Deku is worthy. More like he wants validation that his thinking isn't wrong when reality ever since entering UA says it is.

They both idolized All Might. Deku saw All Might being a hero saving people. Bakugou only saw him winning in fights.

The fact that All Might chose and praises Deku and he gets lectured being over confident for his own good isn't doing great for his ego.

Galaxian · 2016-12-03, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxis

What were you expected before?

You've seen/read Naruto...?

Diluc · 2016-12-03, 23:30

Huh? if you skimmed through my post then you would know that i did read Naruto

Darius Drake · 2016-12-04, 03:58

^ That's his answer. He was expecting a Naruto/Sasuke type relationship between Deku/Bakugou. Not only doesn't that happen, now that we're having a fight between them, it's not anything like a Naruto/Sasuke fight. If anything, Deku & Bakugou are going through the emotional opposite of what Naruto & Sasuke go through in their fights.

In my interpretation, during a Naruto/Sasuke fight, Naruto's viewpoint is "If I can beat him down enough, I can get him to listen to me and help him!", while Sasuke's is basically going "I fell horrible and want to torture myself. There is a way to fight against what makes me feel this way, and you're standing between me and it. I will beat you out of my way to feel better about myself and to get past you."

This fight, however, has neither of those. In my interpretation of the comic, Bakugou's fighting because he is suffering from powerful self-hate type emotions, sure. But the real reason he's fighting seems more because he doesn't have an outlet, and getting beat up on seems like a good outlet. Not saying that he's going to throw the fight, or particularly hold back (beyond what he would do in a spar, anyway). But that he's seeing being hurt as punishment for the disasters he feels personally responsible for.

Deku, meanwhile, isn't fighting to get Bakugou to listen to him, nor is he trying to tell him "the disasters weren't your fault". They weren't, both of them know this, and they both know that Bakugou still feels responsible for quite reasonable reasons. Deku agreeing to fight isn't either a "I'll beat you until your senses return", nor is it a "I'll beat you and then talk to you until your senses return". It's a "Okay, I understand what you're going through. Fine, we can fight seriously to help you work through this your way".

This is a diversion from normal anime tropes, kind of like Bakugou not being an idiot despite being a powerful individual prone to rage and other massive emotions. A smart, irritable person is NOT common in Japanese Managa & Anime, and yet here's one showing himself off for the world to see. However, this Author seems to enjoy doing things like this. It's part of why I like him so much.

LevelSeven · 2016-12-04, 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darius Drake

In my interpretation of the comic, Bakugou's fighting because he is suffering from powerful self-hate type emotions, sure. But the real reason he's fighting seems more because he doesn't have an outlet, and getting beat up on seems like a good outlet. Not saying that he's going to throw the fight, or particularly hold back (beyond what he would do in a spar, anyway). But that he's seeing being hurt as punishment for the disasters he feels personally responsible for.

1. he feels guilty for being weak, and that his most admired person lost his powers because of him (which isnt all true but his kidnapping caused the OFA vs AFO fight and accelerated the process)
2. he isnt seeking for some kind of outlet, he is frustrated yes but that is because he isnt sure about his own way anymore (which, in his view, caused him to be kidnapped and AM fighting and losing his powers), and he wants to know what AM saw in deku that made him so interesting...

Quote:

Deku, meanwhile, isn't fighting to get Bakugou to listen to him, nor is he trying to tell him "the disasters weren't your fault". They weren't, both of them know this, and they both know that Bakugou still feels responsible for quite reasonable reasons.

actually, imo the reasons is anything else but reasonable,
bakugou is a 16 years old kid, he got kidnapped by a team, to boot, they had a plan, used suprise tactics AND they had been adults with a particularly nasty "specialised in capturing"-type of quirk (the coin quirk),
anyone else would feel bad about what happens but not beat themselfs up to that point, i think this would be a good example:
it is like losing a game in poker while the enemy sees all your cards from the very beginning, and you only started playing poker for a few months while the enemy does it for years,
and if you lose it was the most likely to happen possibility, you didnt do anything wrong, it was simply a game you couldnt have won,

unfortunatly bakugous pride and self-confidence is causing him to feel responsible despite such small chances, in his view he should have been able to do something which he couldnt because he was to weak and only because of that AM lost his power

in a sense this kind of thinking is quite arrogant, he could have MAYBE taken out one of them on his own but surely not a team who had a perfect capture-quirk and a strategy from the very beginning

Quote:

Deku agreeing to fight isn't either a "I'll beat you until your senses return", nor is it a "I'll beat you and then talk to you until your senses return". It's a "Okay, I understand what you're going through. Fine, we can fight seriously to help you work through this your way".

agree...

Darius Drake · 2016-12-04, 08:08

^
On number 1, I did point out that it was my interpretation, and thus others might differ. I pointed this out because I wasn't certain it was completely the correct interpretation, and, reading yours, I believe that yours might be closer. I don't consider it completely correct, but it's probably closer than my interpretation.

On number 2, while he's not in any way responsible for what happened, it's quite reasonable for him to feel responsible. It's not due to self confidence, it's not due to arrogance, it's not due to ignorance, it's due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

No matter what anyone else says, Bakugou was the one being saved when All Might was revealed to the world as having weakened to the point of being unable to act as a hero anymore. This is what's making him feel guilt. It is akin to a child feeling responsible for their parents breaking up/divorcing. Even if the child had nothing to do with it (and might have been responsible for them staying together as long as they did), they usually still feel responsible, regardless of age. In short, it's a completely reasonable emotional response to feel responsible for the destruction of something he had no control over and no real responsibility happening, while mourning it's loss.

LevelSeven · 2016-12-04, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darius Drake

On number 1, I did point out that it was my interpretation, and thus others might differ. I pointed this out because I wasn't certain it was completely the correct interpretation, and, reading yours, I believe that yours might be closer. I don't consider it completely correct, but it's probably closer than my interpretation.

sorry if it came off as me correcting you, i simply wanted to express my opinion of his mental state

Quote:

On number 2, while he's not in any way responsible for what happened, it's quite reasonable for him to feel responsible. It's not due to self confidence, it's not due to arrogance, it's not due to ignorance, it's due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

agree, but that makes his thinking even more unreasonable,

if he was simply unlucky and this whole events are simply a sum of unlucky concidences than he couldnt have done anything to prevent it,
but there in his view, if he had more strength than he could have done something, which wouldnt amount to much anyway, he was up against a team and the clown-guy has a perfect quirk to capture people, his strength wouldnt have changed the issue,

anyone with a normal view on themselfes would realise that they couldnt have changed it because any option they had beforehand wasnt enough to not cause the event,
unfortunalty bakguous self-confidence is causing him to assume that he could have prevented it if he was stronger, which isnt really the case (exspecially since the coin-guy has a cheat-like quirk for capture)...

PS: i only realised this now but bakugou really is weak against capture-type of fighters, he can hold his own incredibly well if it is a normal one vs one but once the enemy wants to capture him he will get captured

first he slime monster in ch1, than warping-quirk-guy, than clown-coin-quirk-guy and only recently the flesh-quirk-guy

Quote:

No matter what anyone else says, Bakugou was the one being saved when All Might was revealed to the world as having weakened to the point of being unable to act as a hero anymore. This is what's making him feel guilt. It is akin to a child feeling responsible for their parents breaking up/divorcing. Even if the child had nothing to do with it (and might have been responsible for them staying together as long as they did), they usually still feel responsible, regardless of age. In short, it's a completely reasonable emotional response to feel responsible for the destruction of something he had no control over and no real responsibility happening, while mourning it's loss.

in that sense i agree,
but this kind of feelings would have been prevented if he didnt have such immense pride in himself, others would also feel bad about the issue but they would also see that there was nothing they could have done

Darius Drake · 2016-12-04, 16:38

^ Personally, I believe that you're wrong on that last point. His pride doesn't have anything to do with it, it's his hero worship of All Might that is the root cause. Basically, logic and emotions don't always, or often, see eye-to-eye. No matter how logical an argument is, emotions tend to ignore it. I see Bakugou knowing all that you said, agreeing with what you said, and still feeling responsible due to it being All Might who fell in his rescue. If it was someone else, say Mount Lady (wanted a Super who wasn't a high ranker) or maybe even Endeavor, he wouldn't have had any of the emotional response he had, simply because it wasn't All Might. If it was primarily Pride, as you have said, he would have had some degree of emotional response relatively close to his current one due to his failure for those individuals. But I just don't see that happening.

Also, I don't see a reason for us two to continue this conversation, mostly because I don't have anything else to add, and I suspect you would just repeat yourself as well, at this point.

2016-12-01, 12:35	Link #2404
Wandering Soul Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: America	Great chapter. This fight is much deeper than Baku fighting because he feels he can't catch up. He needs this fight to vent out his guilt and learn how to improve himself. He also needs to finally resolve things with Deku. I'm impressed with the way the author handled these two characters. __________________

2016-12-01, 13:12	Link #2405
ranchan13 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	I'm honestly hoping that this fight leads to some serious growth of maturity for Bakugou. It's that lack of maturity that's holding him back. He's intelligent, he's flashy, he has a powerful quirk. The only thing he lacks in are humility (which he's starting to develop, especially by blaming himself for All Might's retirement) and maturity. At least he should start seeing Deku very differently after this, but he'll always be Vegeta to Deku's Kakarot __________________ Combat ELEment STrategic Integrated Artificial Lifeform

2016-12-01, 15:59	Link #2406
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	I'm really impressed with Bakugou. He isn't just throwing a tantrum here, he blames himself for the end of All Might's career and he wants to find out if Deku is truly worthy to carry on his legacy. __________________

2016-12-01, 11:27	Link #2403
Galaxian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013	I love how the author toys with our expectations and continues to add layer to his characters. Kacchan and Deku are nothing like what I expected when I started reading this manga and I loved it. Great chapter!

2016-12-01, 19:23	Link #2407
marvelB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Like others here, I'm also pleasantly surprised to see more development from Bakugou. Looks like he's really been introspecting himself since All Might's retirement. Wonder if this means he'll become less of an asshole as a result of this fight....?

2016-12-02, 07:15	Link #2410
Sixth Hu Tao Join Date: Oct 2006	This just came across my mind. Why is we keep comparing Bakugou Vs Deku with Naruto Vs Sasuke? Isn't this fight is more like SSJ2Vegeta Vs SSJ2Goku where Vegeta was venting out his frustrations towards Goku?

2016-12-02, 19:16	Link #2412
Random14 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014	Bakugo's always been determined and in his own honorable, its just that bad attitude that really drags him down. He's not stupid, more hotheaded, and I like that he's feeling guilty about the whole mess. Its not his fault, but still, its due to his "weakness" that these chain of events played out. Raging at Deku is just how he deals with it. Its not right, but that's how he is. Glad security caught them already, if they hadn't, I would worry even more about their spy problem. AM would be the obvious answer as to who would stop Aizawa, as he let Bakugo get away with venting before, but not sure he could show up in time. And it might be better if he's still off-screen while these two major AM fans fight each other. And for the Vegeta and Sasuke comparison, if I had to guess, its because Vegeta is from an older series (though still very high profile of course), but also Vegeta started out an enemy who eventually became good, or rather settled down, compared to Sasuke starting out as the rival then going full-blown enemy, which is slightly closer to Bakugo's situation.

2016-12-03, 23:30	Link #2415
Diluc Darkhero of Monstadt Join Date: May 2015 Location: rich mansion with maids	Huh? if you skimmed through my post then you would know that i did read Naruto

2016-12-04, 03:58	Link #2416
Darius Drake Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Australia	^ That's his answer. He was expecting a Naruto/Sasuke type relationship between Deku/Bakugou. Not only doesn't that happen, now that we're having a fight between them, it's not anything like a Naruto/Sasuke fight. If anything, Deku & Bakugou are going through the emotional opposite of what Naruto & Sasuke go through in their fights. In my interpretation, during a Naruto/Sasuke fight, Naruto's viewpoint is "If I can beat him down enough, I can get him to listen to me and help him!", while Sasuke's is basically going "I fell horrible and want to torture myself. There is a way to fight against what makes me feel this way, and you're standing between me and it. I will beat you out of my way to feel better about myself and to get past you." This fight, however, has neither of those. In my interpretation of the comic, Bakugou's fighting because he is suffering from powerful self-hate type emotions, sure. But the real reason he's fighting seems more because he doesn't have an outlet, and getting beat up on seems like a good outlet. Not saying that he's going to throw the fight, or particularly hold back (beyond what he would do in a spar, anyway). But that he's seeing being hurt as punishment for the disasters he feels personally responsible for. Deku, meanwhile, isn't fighting to get Bakugou to listen to him, nor is he trying to tell him "the disasters weren't your fault". They weren't, both of them know this, and they both know that Bakugou still feels responsible for quite reasonable reasons. Deku agreeing to fight isn't either a "I'll beat you until your senses return", nor is it a "I'll beat you and then talk to you until your senses return". It's a "Okay, I understand what you're going through. Fine, we can fight seriously to help you work through this your way". This is a diversion from normal anime tropes, kind of like Bakugou not being an idiot despite being a powerful individual prone to rage and other massive emotions. A smart, irritable person is NOT common in Japanese Managa & Anime, and yet here's one showing himself off for the world to see. However, this Author seems to enjoy doing things like this. It's part of why I like him so much.

2016-12-04, 08:08	Link #2418
Darius Drake Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Australia	^ On number 1, I did point out that it was my interpretation, and thus others might differ. I pointed this out because I wasn't certain it was completely the correct interpretation, and, reading yours, I believe that yours might be closer. I don't consider it completely correct, but it's probably closer than my interpretation. On number 2, while he's not in any way responsible for what happened, it's quite reasonable for him to feel responsible. It's not due to self confidence, it's not due to arrogance, it's not due to ignorance, it's due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time. No matter what anyone else says, Bakugou was the one being saved when All Might was revealed to the world as having weakened to the point of being unable to act as a hero anymore. This is what's making him feel guilt. It is akin to a child feeling responsible for their parents breaking up/divorcing. Even if the child had nothing to do with it (and might have been responsible for them staying together as long as they did), they usually still feel responsible, regardless of age. In short, it's a completely reasonable emotional response to feel responsible for the destruction of something he had no control over and no real responsibility happening, while mourning it's loss.

2016-12-04, 16:38	Link #2420
Darius Drake Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Australia	^ Personally, I believe that you're wrong on that last point. His pride doesn't have anything to do with it, it's his hero worship of All Might that is the root cause. Basically, logic and emotions don't always, or often, see eye-to-eye. No matter how logical an argument is, emotions tend to ignore it. I see Bakugou knowing all that you said, agreeing with what you said, and still feeling responsible due to it being All Might who fell in his rescue. If it was someone else, say Mount Lady (wanted a Super who wasn't a high ranker) or maybe even Endeavor, he wouldn't have had any of the emotional response he had, simply because it wasn't All Might. If it was primarily Pride, as you have said, he would have had some degree of emotional response relatively close to his current one due to his failure for those individuals. But I just don't see that happening. Also, I don't see a reason for us two to continue this conversation, mostly because I don't have anything else to add, and I suspect you would just repeat yourself as well, at this point.