2012-07-31, 19:46 | Link #302 | ||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
|
Quote:
Quote:
Though you are right, re-watching the episode, they also mention that Excellion Mode used in A's ignores the limit of the body and generates magic beyond her limit. Which, while busting my former argument on SLB being the main perpetrator, does offer support to Aki that most of Nanoha's biggest accomplishments are when she uses dangerous magic or magitech, and stretches that out to... well, every single season so far. S1? SLB, stretched to be dangerous. A's? Excellion Mode, stretched to be dangerous. Strikers? Blaster Mode, stretched to be dangerous. Aki was talking about StrikerS, yes, but Nanoha goes over her limits with dangerous spells or tech in every season. |
||
2012-07-31, 19:54 | Link #303 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
|
In fact, so far the only time she hasn't used dangerous magic/magitek is Force. I'm sure Aki will quote this otherwise to try and prove me wrong, so I'll go ahead and say that the Fortress and Strike Cannon armaments are not inherently dangerous to the user, so don't even bother trying to argue otherwise.
__________________
|
2012-07-31, 20:07 | Link #305 | ||||
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by VezSketch; 2012-07-31 at 20:17. |
||||
2012-08-01, 00:37 | Link #306 | ||
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
|
Quote:
By the way, enlight me a bit, what's occam's razor o.o? Quote:
VerzSketck, if you really want to be picky about what endangered Nanoha's life, you're ringht on something: SLB wasn't the only reason. In fact, it was a combination of several factors. Starlight Breaker was one, the cartridge system was another, her continuous abuse of all-day training with Raising Heart was yet another one. The excesses she did in battle and the abuse of her busy lifestyle goaded her to the path of self destruction and limited her capabilities in the future xDU
__________________
|
||
2012-08-01, 03:08 | Link #307 |
Bibliophile
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: There's this dot on the world map...
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
"Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor, Latin lex parsimoniae) is the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness. It is a principle urging one to select from among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions. ... The razor asserts that one should proceed to simpler theories until simplicity can be traded for greater explanatory power."
__________________
|
2012-08-01, 06:53 | Link #308 | |||
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Her viralizing ability has to do with her own body not her divider, Aki. Wow. You really don't know what you're talking about. Nope, I'm only a victim here. |
|||
2012-08-01, 08:06 | Link #309 | |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
|
It takes two to tango, Vez. I can't steer a topic away on my own. While I was the one who shifted focus on SLB being damaging, You were the first to start the whole "but was it really SLB or just her general magic?" You're as guilty as I am.
Technically, it was. That Excellion Buster you mentioned here? Fired while boosted with the Blaster system. But regardless of your mention, in Aki's it was. His point was that Nanoha pushed herself beyond limits with Blaster, you pointed out you didn't mention blaster, I pointed out that SLB falls in a similar category of pushing herself beyond limits. Quote:
But back to the topic of SLB, occam's razor applies here. As you said, we can only proved she used it four times before her accident, yet it is stressed in multiple sources to be a technique that's damaging to the body. It is, combined with Excellion Mode which has a similar description, and the fact the episode in StrikerS specifically uses these two as examples for the reason, whereas they don't mention her daily routine at all, the most obvious reason for her slip. Well, yes. S-rank Nanoha > AAA rank Nanoha. You don't even need to pull out attack examples for that. |
|
2012-08-01, 09:00 | Link #310 | |||||
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Nanoha's S+ Rank. |
|||||
2012-08-01, 09:53 | Link #311 | ||||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Losing 8% of your magical power and being advised by the doctor to take a complete rest for 2 to 3 years in order to recover is not what I'd call "being fine after a while." And even then had she listened to Shamal's advice they still weren't sure if a complete rest would recover that loss. For someone like Nanoha, 8% power loss is actually quite a bit. As for it being less than what happened pre-strikers, while it's details are vague, what was clearly described in StrikerS that Nanoha's body was weakened to the point where she couldn't react to a drone ambush. The ambush itself was what resulted in most of the injury. Quote:
To be specific, Aki claimed that it was implied Nanoha's body got weaker post-accident. Body and magic strength are not necessarily always related. Case in point: Precia. Weak body, on her deathbed even, but still enough magic to school the TSAB forces send to arrest her. Which in Nanoha's case is still plausible, if theoretical and without evidence to back it up (Fate being a worrywart is nothing new, after all). Her loss of power post-strikers however, is an undeniable fact. |
||||
2012-08-01, 10:21 | Link #312 | ||||
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
|
Quote:
Quote:
About the second iceberg it was actually several smaller fragments gathering ontop of Fortis's head. Cypha didn't destroyed it because the spell reacted faster than che could do it, it's easy to criticize time flow on a manga where images are still xDU Quote:
Quote:
So yeah, i perfectly know what i'm talking about, if you want to dismatle my argument bring proof xD
__________________
|
||||
2012-08-01, 10:45 | Link #313 | |||||||
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||
2012-08-01, 10:57 | Link #314 | |||||
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
|
Quote:
Quote:
The nature of the "second iceberg" with was casted in a "Phalanx Shift" formation made of several smaller icebergs pointed all towards the Esquad Huckebein. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Link to manga stuff are forbbiden my friend, but it's NEXT 18 if you're curious xD Lol, that's not proof xD
__________________
|
|||||
2012-08-01, 14:55 | Link #315 | ||
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 34
|
Quote:
That "obvious energy slash" is a constant visual effect among attacks drawn in the manga. It's artistic license, stop using it as an argument. This is how the iceberg looked when Cypha cut it, you're wrong. When I said I won this argument previously, I meant on another forum but I misplaced that with another argument we had about Signum and Cypha and it was with someone else on the forum ..... still pretty annoying, though. Quote:
|
||
2012-08-01, 15:30 | Link #316 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
|
Cyborgs are an exception to that though. A lot of the cyborg's physical power is due to their reinforced bodies rather than the energy they use though (y'know, being cyborgs and all). That's why they have a special "muscular power" rank. It's their special attacks that are fueled by the IS energy, which can take on entirely different forms and power altogether.
Example: Dieci has a physical power equivalent to an A-rank mage, but her IS attacks are the equivalent of an S-rank. |
2012-08-01, 15:59 | Link #317 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
|
Not gonna discuss further the looks of Cypha's blatantly obvious energy slash attack with you since there's no point in keep pointing the obvious truth. As i've mentioned before i have Cypha's all other slashes as comparision point and no one else looks like that, in fact, it looks more similar to the bombardment attck she used on Agito xDU(there's even a circular aura around her sword at the moment you can't get more obvious than that xDU). Look at the dynamic of the examples you posted and go look back to Cypha's attack on the iceber ...even the closest example (Armorized Deville swinging his weapon against Fate) fails to replicate the effect depicted on that page.
I guess we reached the point where it's useless to keep discussing this particular point since i believe firmly in my evidence and you keep refusing it so move on. As for the mountain the very image depic several chunks of ice, not ony one. Quote:
The only other installement i saw of someone cutting a mountain with a sword was Frog with the Masamune on Chrono Trigger. But even that doesn't count because it wasn't Frog's strenght what cuts the mountain it was the ludicrous power of the Masamune (which wasn't even at it's strongest at the time o.O!). Keroko is right about the cyborgs, while most of them are certainly weaker than the main cast powerwise they're far stronger than most of them physically speaking thanks to their bionic enhacements. Dieci will own Nanoha on a wrestling match with a hand tied on her back xD
__________________
|
|
2012-08-02, 13:37 | Link #318 | ||||||||||
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Quote:
There are two cases where Cypha has had an aura surrounding here and this is in her first fight with Signum after reacting - slashing Signum (chapter 7, page 25) and shooting Agito (chapter 7, page 26). No such thing is on Cypha when she cuts the iceberg (this is a fact), why are you drawing comparison between them? You cannot present this as evidence of a truth. The drawn arc (the thing that is seemingly attached to her sword) is what looks similar to what I presented. If you were actually referring to the giant white shit, that looks nothing like the only confirmed bombardment attack we see from Cypha. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Signum was able to break through Fate's barrier in A's (episode 2) with a single sword swing. This instance was just a swing, nothing more. How strong is that exactly? Fate was able to block Nanoha's Divine Buster with her Round Shield, one of the most basic defensive spells (claiming that it wasn't as sturdy as a Round Shield would be faulty), and the shield itself was still intact, not being destroyed by the blast. Signum broke through Fate's barrier entirely with a single sword wing. That dictates Signum's melee strike was that incredibly powerful and Fate is later shown in the episode to being able to at least contend with Signum in melee. You cannot contradict me, that's just me retelling events and accepting what's shown. A plain sword swing was shown not being able break Bardiche when Signum first arrives and also immediately after Signum breaks through her barrier with the plain old sword swing. Another demonstration of physical might is by Reinforce breaking through Nanoha's round shield with a single punch. This was not a "magically enhanced" attack, she followed up with one, though - Schwarze Wirkung. Nanoha blocked it, holding up her device and was pretty much only knocked into the water without taking damage. Another thing to note is Nanoha's ability to physically clash with Reinforce. Although of course Reinforce is still more powerful, that's impressive. Vita also lifted up something enormously big in comparison to the Defense System and it was also made of iron, adding to its weight (much more dense than rock), this is also a feat of lifting strength that can't be dismissed. Vita is not the physically strongest character. Nanoha under a limiter was able to freely catch stop and catch both Subaru's and Teana's attacks with her hands. She was the equivalent of an AA Rank mage, but this only serves to prove a mage's simple strength is not to be overlooked. Fate produces a shock wave with her swing. The physical act of swinging causes it. This shock wave was bigger than the Defense System itself - on virtue of size alone, this has to have incredibly force behind it. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||||||||
2012-08-02, 14:35 | Link #319 | |||||||||||||||
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
|
Ok, since you insist xD
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Here's a theory, not to be taken as gospel truth since there's no confimation for this: Cypha's blade could cut easily trought the thing because ...as a divider it can weaken the magic sustaining the whole thing togheter ...of course it's still a godawfully big structure so the humongous chunks still could fall on the Esquad xDU Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
|||||||||||||||
2012-08-02, 15:17 | Link #320 | |||||||||||||||||||||
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Age: 34
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also, remember Vita's hammer breaks when she hits something more powerful than her hammer. Zest physically breaks her mini gigantform. Its durability comes from magic, regardless of size, it should remain the same. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This is baseless. LMCA has shown no indication of doing that. Sorry, but this sounds like someone you pulled out of your ass. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
Thread Tools | |
|
|