2013-03-03, 04:10 | Link #81 |
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So he's right then?
Seriously, c'mon, VRO? Mecha? I may not be as smart/intelligent/good debater/politician as you guys in explaining things to the atomic level and quoting/doing references from where ever you find it but, in my "elementary mind".... yeah.. it's hard to say it does... |
2013-03-03, 04:21 | Link #83 | ||
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2013-03-03, 08:56 | Link #84 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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The problem with those 100,000 plus sellers is that the bulk of the buyers are not anime fans nor mecha fans. They are Gundam or Evangelion fans. They have no interest in anything else. New mecha titles by and large are commercial failures unless the mecha element is watered down and tied to more popular formats. It's like commenting on the state of sci-fi in the US based on the sale of Star Wars and Star Trek Blu-ray releases. Geass was the last successful new mecha franchise. If we even have to discuss whether is recognizable as a mecha title and the key to it's success was mixing it up with other show types only reinforces my point. |
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2013-03-03, 09:20 | Link #85 | ||
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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IMO i always viewed the mecha's and angels themselves as something symbolic for human conflict |
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2013-03-03, 09:39 | Link #86 | |
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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The main source of anime is manga and light novels, there's hardly any mecha titles in either of them (FMP, Linebarrel come to mind) and if they make up, lets just say 80% of what we have as anime, that doesn't leave much room for mecha.
Secondly it should be pretty obvious that mecha series are more high budget than a typical series. Not to mention that mechanical animators are a dying breed, hence the increase in CGI, even in series where they tried not to like in Unicorn. If you only have like (lets make up numbers) 200 animators who can do mecha at an acceptable level compared to say 10000 who can do typical shit... and there's only a certain amount of CGI studios around... guess what happens? Thirdly mecha series still continue to sell well, 4 of the top 10 selling anime titles from 2000 onwards are mecha, 5 of the Top 11. Unicorn is probably the best selling anime OVA series of all time, also probably the closest thing we'll get to the sales of NGE TV. Movie charts based on Movies from TV series... Top 5, 3 are mecha (and before anyone goes with the Frontier movies only sold well because of the bundled 30 minute game, look up DYRL sales for me first) (2009) 211,367 Macross F: Itsuwari no Utahime (Regular: 41,434) (2011) 182,337 Macross F: Sayonara no Tsubasa (Regular: 45,647) (2005) 171,919 Full Metal Alchemist: Conqueror of Shamballa (2011) 163,547 K-on! The Movie (2010) 155,867 Kidou Senshi Gundam 00L A wakening of the Trailblazer Add the Eva movies and it's a wrap. Quote:
Eva 4 is due next year? So is the last Unicorn title and than Sunrise transition into Origin, Kawamori has a new project lined up (not Macross), Code Geass Akito is still airing, Yamoto (if you want to count that) is about to take over one of the best time slots in anime, we have 3 mecha titles airing this upcoming season. Probably get a IS sequel sometime next year too since the book issues have been dealt with and it sold like crazy. Yet mecha is dead? If genres were boxers and we measured them up pound for pound.... (balance the weights/releases) Mecha would slaughter everything else. |
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2013-03-03, 10:29 | Link #87 | |
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Awww heck, take the harem genre... and make it space based. OH wait, that's ToLoveRu... (sorta)...
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2013-03-03, 10:39 | Link #89 | ||||
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Docking, "One scientist to save them all", and "optimistic state of mind" does not make a show a mecha. You need actual piloted robotic armors for a show to be a mecha, imo. VRO is more magical girl than it is mecha, imo. I completely agree with syn there. Quote:
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2013-03-03, 10:44 | Link #90 |
=^^=
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
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Only watching the series... I was disappointed in that one due to one aspect:
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Sure. It gave plenty of time to focus on the babes of that series.... but still. And don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it. Nevertheless, there's a war for the survival of humanity happening... Of all the series that executed that type of story the best... Gunbuster.
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2013-03-03, 10:48 | Link #91 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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That’s the problem. Compared to the original SDF Macross, Macross Frontier is too cheesy and some of the dialogues are too melodramatic or over the top to be taken seriously. Kinda like comparing the original Star Wars Trilogy to Star Wars Prequels.
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2013-03-03, 10:57 | Link #92 | |||||
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2013-03-03, 11:19 | Link #93 |
You're Hot, Cupcake
Join Date: Aug 2008
Age: 42
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Oh Westlo, you just can't resist stirring up any place that's a guarantee to react to you.
Since this is absurd even by your standards, I'll bite for once. Firsty, if I read correctly what R3 said, he was talking about traditional mecha, not mecha as a whole. And seriously, using Gundam AGE an excuse to vent about how Unicorn beats almost any title in sales? I think most people have enough of a brain to know about Unicorn and its success in appealing to the more old-school Gundam fans. Mecha isn't dead but it has morphed substantially with the times. Still, it should be noted that those higher end titles are mainly featuring titles that have had long-standing value/fanbases/merchandise. On that sales point, you mentioned Gundam, Macross, Yamato and The War as well as Infinite Stratos. But funnily enough...if you look at those sales figures from 2000 onwards beyond that top 11 or so (let's extend it to around 15 to include IS)....there aren't that many more titles that are mech. Code Geass, a bit more Gundam, Tiger and Bunny, TTGL, the Yamato remake. But let's be fair and remove the established, continually marketed for decades franchises. We're left with Code Geass, Infinite Stratos, Tiger and Bunny and Guren Lagann. To be even fairer, IS isn't exactly a mech show and more of a service/harem show. Tiger and Bunny is more of a parody of superheroes than a straight mecha show. Guren Lagann is a continuation of the FLCL experiments which was already a parody of mecha + other stuff and made to make The Pillows sound even more awesome. Code Geass kind of is but is genre fusion in droves - the mechs are only one slice of the cake. So....as far as I see it, R3 has a point. Outside of the necromanacy marketing freight train, there's barely a handful of successful shows containing mechs and those doing well weren't strictly mech. Genre fusion has become a necessity of shows involving mechs to be successful. And even then, they're still not blowing the charts to pieces. It's the well-established or well-marketed titles that are (face it, Code Geass had plenty of help in getting itself out there.) But more to R3's point, a significant shift from traditionalist mecha to modern mecha is the director's intentions and the symbolism. If you read enough about what the directors in the 60s, 70s, 80s and even 90s in some way, were intending to do and what the focus/point of the show was. In the days of Astro Boy, Mazinger and Gundam, mechs were vessels of spirituality helping the protagonist achieving their goal, fulfilling the guardian role for the usual mech cliche of their usually dead relative that left them the mech to save the world, that the pursuit of their goal was to find balance and redeem the soul of the enemy rather than wipe them out or scream justice, which is more typical of Western superheroes. Mechs were essentially Japan's version of superheroes but mixed in their spiritual beliefs. Is that the point of modern mech shows? Hell no! The point of them is to allow as much merchandise via figues and model kits to come out and sell like hotcakes (merch really is the profit section), to keep the brand known and set a precident to allow other future financially successful ventures in similar veins. There's a reason Japan still hasn't got over The War and perhaps never will - it's the benchmark for success despite its numerous flaws and general insanity. The characters and mechs are marketable, the title is controversial and easy to keep current/known and the possibility of remakes was always there. And in an age where anime is no longer able to experiment and train but more oriented towards likely financial success since the budget allowances of the 70s and 80s just don't exist now, sales will drive what is made. At least be an amusing troll if you're going to stir up trouble, Westlo. Or provide a more substantial argument than relying on the franchise titles. With that logic, manga is just fine at present because One Piece is setting records all over the place - yet its sales for the industry in total are only 1/4 of what they were in 1995. We know you love your sales, Westlo. We really do. And we know you love to go after Triple_R whenever you're bored. But seriously, at least try. We know you're capable of far better.
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Last edited by Last Sinner; 2013-03-03 at 14:02. |
2013-03-03, 11:44 | Link #94 | |||
Japanese Culture Fan
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 33
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If all that modern anime buyers are looking for in mecha are... whatever the hell Frontier has, which I know includes really flashy modern animation and a big budget, maybe the people claiming that mecha is dying have a point. Quote:
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Muv-Luv Alternative wasn't even adapted to anime form. All that was adapted was a piece of trash light novel, Total Eclipse, that is a spin-off to the VN and revolves around a completely different setting and set of characters. |
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2013-03-03, 13:25 | Link #95 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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You could replace the mecha in Code Geass with tanks, androids, or fairies, and the series genre would not shift. Replace the Evangelions with cars, replace the LFO's in Eureka Seven with submarines, and the entire genre changes. That is how you know what a true mecha series is.
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2013-03-03, 13:52 | Link #96 | ||||
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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And after looking through a wiki it's not even hard why i didn't remember them because most of them hardly distuinguished themselves from eachother both in looks and name. Quote:
The fight with the eva's and angels were hardly the centre of focus of everything. In fact i felt both the angels and EVA's was an excuse to force interactions between the characters. Seeing that the last few angels have been entirely skipped Quote:
later edit: according to vndb it was a trial in 2007 |
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2013-03-03, 14:14 | Link #97 | |||
I Miss NEET Life
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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I fucking grew up watching those series. They are old as fuck! Quote:
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2013-03-04, 14:33 | Link #98 |
On a mission
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Hmm, the writer of VRO also did Mai-HiME, and seems to frequently input elements of mecha, magical girl, and fanservice in. And then Nanoha itself is rife with Super Robot references too, as well it is in concept too, so all of this is really no coincidence, I'd say.
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2013-03-04, 15:45 | Link #99 | |
Otaku Apprentice
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2013-03-04, 15:58 | Link #100 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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One thing I've notice about Space Battleship Yamato 2199 is that it is different from the original. I know of a bunch of people that are avoiding it because it is a remake and they've seen the original already (or its "too old"). The new Yamato is not the same as the old one. The plot is more compact with less 70's ish long establishing shots or narration. With all those things removed, they've added more character depth, more subplots that change the nature of the story, especially from the Gamilas side of things. And they've taken the time to put in things in specific places so that you can't know for sure what will happen this time around.
In addition to that, the ship are much higher detailed than in the 70s and 80s, plus there are more characters filling in useful roles. I am actually amazed at how much story they are managing to tell in these episodes. They are functionally farther along in the story than the 1974 story, and have told much more story than the original could in that some period of time.
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