Byakugan, Sharingan & Rinnengan

[Airotia]

I find the Byakugan more useful, simply because by using it, you can render your opponent's limbs and vital organs useless, as opposed to simply seeing and copying what your opponent is doing--which, most likely, they'll be able to counter, anyways. The Sharingan looks cooler, and, admittedly, it's harder to tell that someone has the Sharingan because when it's not activated, it looks like normal eyes, but, overally, the Byakugan is much more useful.

[Soultis Rayn]

I want red eyes, so I'd probably go with Byakugan and just paint 'em red

[tkdtiger]

you know even if you can copy a technique though if you're slightly less skilled then your opponent he'll stil prop. over power you, if you're equal in strength you'll more then likely just cancel out the technique. Their for you not only need the ability to copy the technique you have to be able to the technique atleast a little better or useing it as a surprise seems to be what makes the sharingan advantageus.

[Suna no tate]

Byukugan. See chakra flow as well as sharingan, but without the weaknesses. Sharingan's genjutus can be blocked by thin cloths or helmets and a high level ninja already is taught anti-genjutus techniques. Sharingan copy ability can't see hand seals if they are hidden. Sharingan user will almost always be at adisadvantage when copying jutsus, simply because the other guy will have had more experience with them. Byukugan has no weaknesses except for that slight blind spot and who needs the copy ability anyway? I could care less about their jutsus, I think they're foolish and only slight better than regular taijutsus. A punch to the face that rips your head off vs a poke on a critical chakra pore. its all the same in terms of damage. But the vision... amazing.

Still if I could choose any set of eyes, I might hold out for those of the Akatsuki leader or the zetsu. The leader has cool looking pupils, and zetsu must have some sort of special vision as he can see through the ground over miles of distances. Plus his are just creepy looking

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

Sharingan's genjutus can be blocked by thin cloths or helmets and a high level ninja already is taught anti-genjutus techniques.

But of course they are...Thats why nobody uses Genjutsu, because they are so easily blocked...

Read the Manga and see why all the genjutsu just cant be blocked as you say and then even if high level Shinolby are teach how to dispel Genjutsu, that does not make them immune to every Genjutsus.

Sharingan copy ability can't see hand seals if they are hidden. Sharingan user will almost always be at adisadvantage when copying jutsus, simply because the other guy will have had more experience with them.

So what? its the Psychological Chock rather than the use of the Jutsu, go see The first fight With Zaubza and Kakshi, besides that, you forgot that SHaringan once it see the Jutsu it Understand it and Cancels its effect...not to mention Sharingan Predict movements and see the Chakr flow just like the Byakugan..

Byukugan has no weaknesses except for that slight blind spot and who needs the copy ability anyway? I could care less about their jutsus, I think they're foolish and only slight better than regular taijutsus. A punch to the face that rips your head off vs a poke on a critical chakra pore. its all the same in terms of damage. But the vision... amazing.

The problem is that a "Critical poke on a critical chakra pore" is not a Abilty of the Byakugan, that's Jyuken..so if you are not Teach the Jyuken, Seen the Tenketsus will prove useless -if you can see them, because not every Byakugan user can see them.

Wiht the Sharringan an Inexperienced user with a recently gained Sharingan goes from been a mediocre Shinoby to a good one. wereas you can find Experienced Byakugan user that are average at best.

[Suna no tate]

What I meant was that yeah you might be able to learn the jutsu right then and there but it doesn't mean you know how to use it expertly. Like a person may learn how to move all the pieces in chess but takes him years to learn how to win and even longer to become a master of the game. My point is the sharingan user may learn the jutsu then and there but he won't have the experience with the jutsu. The higher level the jutsu the harder it will be for the sharingan user to effectively use and thus the copying ability's use is diminished.

Lets say I had a jutsu where I could teleport and it used hand seals, but in order to use it I have to have just the right amount of light in the room because if there is too much light or too little light I will lose all my chakra and fall down. Not only will I know how to use it from a technical stand point, but I'll have all the nuances down. The sharingan user may copy it and teleport himself into a wall. Or he may use it in a situation where its not suited, like teleporting where there is too much light or too much dark The example I give is a bit exaggerated but you see my point. A low level jutsu like a water clone or a fireball jutsu is simple enough to use immediately. Something higher level and more propietary in nature however is best to leave uncopied as trying to use it against the creator of the jutsu might get you killed because of your inexperience with it.

All the other benefits of the sharingan can be gained with training or are also present with the byukagan.

[fatez]

Isn't it already established that the sharingan is the better eyes? No matter how much you don't like the idea, it is just fact that the sharingan is more powerful. See all them new techniques they came up with to make it seem godly. Poor byakugan.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

What I meant was that yeah you might be able to learn the jutsu right then and there but it doesn't mean you know how to use it expertly. Like a person may learn how to move all the pieces in chess but takes him years to learn how to win and even longer to become a master of the game. My point is the sharingan user may learn the jutsu then and there but he won't have the experience with the jutsu. The higher level the jutsu the harder it will be for the sharingan user to effectively use and thus the copying ability's use is diminished.

Lets say I had a jutsu where I could teleport and it used hand seals, but in order to use it I have to have just the right amount of light in the room because if there is too much light or too little light I will lose all my chakra and fall down. Not only will I know how to use it from a technical stand point, but I'll have all the nuances down. The sharingan user may copy it and teleport himself into a wall. Or he may use it in a situation where its not suited, like teleporting where there is too much light or too much dark The example I give is a bit exaggerated but you see my point. A low level jutsu like a water clone or a fireball jutsu is simple enough to use immediately. Something higher level and more propietary in nature however is best to leave uncopied as trying to use it against the creator of the jutsu might get you killed because of your inexperience with it.

And were did oyu read that someone needs to be experienced to use the Jutsu effectively???? Could you tell me the Manga Chapter?

In fact, that’s the point of Sharingan, Understanding the Jutsu, so someone that Did not know the Jutsu can do it exactly as the person who perform it, so there is nothing you could use as an example to say that An experience User have the Upper hand on A Sharingan user on the Jutsu, check out how Zabuza was defeated by his on Jutsu.

All the other benefits of the sharingan can be gained with training or are also present with the byukagan.

Yeah right, SO Prediction of Movement, Canceling Powerful Genjutsu, Being able to see Chakra flow, Have better use of Genjutsu can be learned with hard training by anybody. In this 4 I mentioned the only one that we know is present is seen the Chakra flow. And I have not even Touch the upper levels of sharingan been that the MS jutsus.

[Xrayz0r]

And were did oyu read that someone needs to be experienced to use the Jutsu effectively???? Could you tell me the Manga Chapter?

Aside from the fact that that's a really dumb question (I surely hope it was not to be taken seriously), no one has ever mentioned "effectively".
I don't wish to butt into your heated debate but I will anyway. The guy you quoted said expertly, not effectively. If you just read his post over and over again like three hundred times to perhaps understand a little better, his example did make the guy use the jutsu effectively, just not expertly, hence he ended up inside a wall and died. (teh irony)

I guess the example is pretty much perfect. With Sharingan you get to copy and fully understand the move, like instantly you're an expert at performing the jutsu. Yet you have never used it before and so you won't be able to so it to its fullest potential. You are an expert at activating the jutsu, not using it, and not choosing the best time or situation to use it. Because all you learned is now the amount of chakra to use, where to send it, how to control or manipulate it, which handseals to use and so on to get the jutsu working. In order to become a master of the jutsu, actual experience is needed.

Sharingan skips training, that's the way we should see it. Whereas regular people have to train for years/months/weeks whatever, Sharingan makes you get the jutsu in an isntant. Still there's requirements to jutsu such as chakra control, capicity or a special trait/ability that might make them copyable but not usable unless certain condition (such as I just stated), plus the fact that someone experienced at using a certain jutsu will do a better job using it in battle than someone who just copied it.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

Aside from the fact that that's a really dumb question (I surely hope it was not to be taken seriously), no one has ever mentioned "effectively".

I don't wish to butt into your heated debate but I will anyway. The guy you quoted said expertly, not effectively. If you just read his post over and over again like three hundred times to perhaps understand a little better, his example did make the guy use the jutsu effectively, just not expertly, hence he ended up inside a wall and died. (teh irony)

I guess the example is pretty much perfect. With Sharingan you get to copy and fully understand the move, like instantly you're an expert at performing the jutsu. Yet you have never used it before and so you won't be able to so it to its fullest potential. You are an expert at activating the jutsu, not using it, and not choosing the best time or situation to use it. Because all you learned is now the amount of chakra to use, where to send it, how to control or manipulate it, which handseals to use and so on to get the jutsu working. In order to become a master of the jutsu, actual experience is needed.

Sharingan skips training, that's the way we should see it. Whereas regular people have to train for years/months/weeks whatever, Sharingan makes you get the jutsu in an isntant. Still there's requirements to jutsu such as chakra control, capicity or a special trait/ability that might make them copyable but not usable unless certain condition (such as I just stated), plus the fact that someone experienced at using a certain jutsu will do a better job using it in battle than someone who just copied it.

Read my post to understand it well:

“And were did you read that someone needs to be experienced to use the Jutsu effectively????”

In other words, is had not been mention that you need Experince to know how to use a Jutsu. So Saying that a Sharingan user will have a disadvanatge of Recently Copied Jutsu against someone that knows it for more time is an invetion, and Kakashi defeting Zabuza with a recentley copied Jutsu from Zabuza proves this observation wrong.

[Xrayz0r]

Originally Posted by Rurik

In other words, is had not been mention that you need Experince to know how to use a Jutsu. .

EXACTLY! EXPERIENCE IS NOT NEEDED TO KNOW HOW TO USE A JUTSU!

WHO THE HELL SAID OTHERWISE?

=D


I shall pepeat, experience is needed to use the jutsu EXPERTLY. There's a difference: expertly, effectively. Learn it.
Effectively is being able to (per)form the jutsu. It's like (lame example) you're able to form an actual Rasengan but unable to use it in batte. It's like you're able to use Hiraishin but you end up transporting into a bottomless cliff.

Lee has gained stamina because of his 00ber taijutsu training of years. Years of Taijutsu training, body gets used to it, adapts, gets stronger, that stuff. Sasuke copies movements, is able to perform those movements perfectly, yet can't keep it up for long cause his stamina his way lower, gets tired really fast.

Boom!, copied jutsu disadvantage, I just gave ya one. Don't deny it, don't avoid, face it.

Now the same goes for the mind. For ninjutsu it's a little different cause your body can't exactly adapt to it and I can't use the same example. Still what happens with your body from taijutsu, the same happens in your mind for ninjutsu. One can copy your jutsu and know how to activate it, but you've got the knowledge on how to use it best, which situation to use it in, which combo's to use it in (just stating exampes). You've got a history of using the jutsu. You have learned from perhaps your mistakes, or events in which you made good use of it. You remember those and they improve your ability of using the jutsu to an ever rising potential.
Someone who copies it doesn't have this knowledge, this experience. He just knows how to activate it. And the way to use it is completely up to him. Whether he can use it suckier or better than you depends on his own skills, which of course after copying it, will be at a minimum (for just that jutsu that is).

[Suna no tate]

Its just like chess. knowing how to move the pieces from a technical standpoint isn't enough to make you a good player. There are a lot of nuances to chess that must be mastered. I think the same is true of jutsus. Simply knowing the mechanics of a jutsu is one thing, but having the experiences and knowing the nuances behind it takes time and effort. Thats why with high level jutsus that are more propietary in nature, it'd be better not to copy and them immediately use them in battle. You simply will not have had enough experience with that jutsu. So while you may recreate it perfectly, you may not utilize it perfectly. Its like learning to drive. Even if you memorize the manual perfectly, you may not still get the hang of the car for a while.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

EXACTLY! EXPERIENCE IS NOT NEEDED TO KNOW HOW TO USE A JUTSU!

WHO THE HELL SAID OTHERWISE?

=D
I shall pepeat, experience is needed to use the jutsu EXPERTLY. There's a difference: expertly, effectively. Learn it.

Once again understand my posts, Suna no tate post was talking about someone having an Advantage because you were experienced at using the Jutsu, than the one who copied the Jutsu, this was not stated, this is contradictory.

Lee has gained stamina because of his 00ber taijutsu training of years. Years of Taijutsu training, body gets used to it, adapts, gets stronger, that stuff. Sasuke copies movements, is able to perform those movements perfectly, yet can't keep it up for long cause his stamina his way lower, gets tired really fast.
Now the same goes for the mind. For ninjutsu it's a little different cause your body can't exactly adapt to it and I can't use the same example. Still what happens with your body from taijutsu, the same happens in your mind for ninjutsu. One can copy your jutsu and know how to activate it, but you've got the knowledge on how to use it best, which situation to use it in, which combo's to use it in (just stating exampes). You've got a history of using the jutsu. You have learned from perhaps your mistakes, or events in which you made good use of it. You remember those and they improve your ability of using the jutsu to an ever rising potential.
Someone who copies it doesn't have this knowledge, this experience. He just knows how to activate it. And the way to use it is completely up to him. Whether he can use it suckier or better than you depends on his own skills, which of course after copying it, will be at a minimum (for just that jutsu that is).

We are not talking about the constraint to special physical attributes of the person that performs the Jutsu, we are talking about Jutsu that can be copied by the Sharingan and the user can perform it right there, the only few example you can use are The ones Kakashi Copied: The Water Jutsu and the water Clone.

Both of those Jutsus Kakashi used it as good as Zabuza did. (And I don’t know if you see it like a Jutsu Copy, but the one Itachi use Against Kurenai).

You talked about skill of the person, I could agree with that, but still it does not have nothing to do with the experinece using the Jutsu.

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by fatez

Isn't it already established that the sharingan is the better eyes? No matter how much you don't like the idea, it is just fact that the sharingan is more powerful. See all them new techniques they came up with to make it seem godly. Poor byakugan.

It's never been stated or established that the sharingan is the better eyes. It's all based on opinion. People will go with the one they like, which is just fine : )

[Neji_Hyuuga]

I believe that both the Sharingan and the Byakugan has its own use. The Sharingan has the ability see the enemies movements and uncover both ninjutsu and genjutsu ( basic use ). In the other hand, it also has the ability to destroy enemies psychologically using Genjutsu's ( Mangekyoushi Sharingan ), Tsukuyomi Itachi's genjutsu is one example and physically, Amaterasu, Itachi's dojutsu and also kakashi Mangekyoushi dojutsu ( don't know the name though ). These capabilities are indeed fearsome. I believe that Sharingan was more of an attack technique.

Byakugan in the other hand hasn't shown its maximum capabilities. The only thing we know is its sight abilities which could see through barriers and has an average sight area of 360 degrees. IT could also see the flow of chakra and reveal the location of tenketsu and hachimon tonkuo. Furthermore, the Byakugan was specially designed to support the Hyuuga Ryu ( Hakkeshou, Hakke Roku juu yon shou, Shu go hakke, kaiten, and all of those other techniques ). I'm pretty sure that Byakugan was meant more for defence rather than offence.

If you ask me to choose between these two it'll be pretty hard. But i'll have to admit that the Mangekyoushi Sharingan has the upper hand though. Yet who knows what the Byakugan will develop into through out the whole story. I actually prefer both of the dojutsu hehehehehehehehe....

[Dauthi]

I dont see how it can even be a contest. Sure at beginner levels they are about equal, perhaps byakugen excels a bit. Then a mastered sharingan/mange delivers an array of doujutsu that you simply look at them to deliver, on top of an ability to dodge 100% of any attack depending on the speed of the attacker and your own. But since it has predictability, your speed doesnt need to equal theirs, and can be quite a bit lower.

What really makes the byakugen come in last endgame is learning thousands of jutsu with it. Once you have mastered so many jutsu, you become massively versatile, and powerful. While byakugen is predictable, since all their abilities can be known and forseen, you have no clue what a sharingan user is capable of, and probably dont even know of half his jutsu.

[Kogepan]

would be cool if the byakugan has some unknown secret as well @.@ what if neji finds a way to become freed from the cursed seal, and upon doing so somehow realizes how to evolve the byakugan O.o XD surely if anyone can do it it's him xD just wishful thinking but still ^_^

[astayanax]

Sharingan starts out better than Byakugan. Seriously, what are you going to do with the ability to see 360 degrees with say 100 kunais flying at you in all directions in a few seconds of having the eye? That is right, you will die. However, a person who just gained Sharingan and is in that same situation WILL dodge EVERY ONE of those kunais because he will be given precise information on the actions needed to dodge it.

Training now with JYUUKEN (and not Byakugan) would more likely give the Byakugan user some advantages IF he was talented to begin with and this is where the difference lies. To be skillful with Byakugan, you have to be talented to begin with. To be skillful with Sharingan, you simply need the eyes.

Its just like chess. knowing how to move the pieces from a technical standpoint isn't enough to make you a good player. There are a lot of nuances to chess that must be mastered. I think the same is true of jutsus. Simply knowing the mechanics of a jutsu is one thing, but having the experiences and knowing the nuances behind it takes time and effort. Thats why with high level jutsus that are more propietary in nature, it'd be better not to copy and them immediately use them in battle. You simply will not have had enough experience with that jutsu. So while you may recreate it perfectly, you may not utilize it perfectly. Its like learning to drive. Even if you memorize the manual perfectly, you may not still get the hang of the car for a while.

If we want to use chess, think of Sharingan as a super computer that is analysing things on the fly every nano second, calculating every action of virtually every possibility of every scenario. Where Sharingan fails as seen in say the first Sasuke vs Lee or Sasuke confrontation vs 1 tailed Naruto before he got his 3 dotted Sharingan is the amount of time needed by the body to react to the information given to it. However, this has nothing to do with the eye itself as it gave the user perfect information.

Everytime sharingan copied a jutsu that we then saw being used; it was used perfectly in the perfect scenario like a true master. However as with Sasuke getting tired using Lee speed for an example, that has nothing to do with him using the jutsu ineffeciently but simply not having the stamina to continue using it which is another thing all together. It can be argued that in the 5 secs Sasuke had his speed up, he was using it better than Rock Lee.

[Medalist]

The tool(sharingan, byakugan) does not make the man(or woman) - Man maks the tool(or woman). Thus Someone with Sharingan or Byakugan vs. Konohamaru per say could still get his/her ass beat if man(or woman) can not use the tool(byakugan or sharingan) she/he hosts wisely.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu

The tool(sharingan, byakugan) does not make the man(or woman) - Man maks the tool(or woman). Thus Someone with Sharingan or Byakugan vs. Konohamaru per say could still get his/her ass beat if man(or woman) can not use the tool(byakugan or sharingan) she/he hosts wisely.

If you read the Manga you will find that

Spoiler:

Obito was a so-so Ninja, after gaining the Sharingan he abstained a very noticeable improvement.