2012-09-29, 18:12 | Link #81 | ||||||||
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2012-09-30, 03:41 | Link #82 | ||||||||
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2012-09-30, 11:00 | Link #83 |
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you're confusing 2 ideals in your points, between the characters' motivation and the author's motivation. my point is that if those 2 don't add up then the story makes no sense. you don't seem to mind if the two do not emulate each other. for instance, tobi could have captured naruto at nearly any time and just kept him imprisoned until he needed him for the gedo mazo. you don't seem to mind this since the author's motivation is that the main character can't have gotten captured like that but the fact of the matter is that it is a plot hole. there was no reason tobi couldn't have captured naruto for years.
likewise there's no reason (yet) for tobi's different hairstyles, but you don't mind because they are meant to (unnecessarily imho) fool the audience even though the changes hold no weight in story terms (apparently). the hair thing isn't a plot hole, but it is most likely a red herring and a bit on the sloppy side as far as i am concerned |
2012-09-30, 11:40 | Link #84 | |
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I don't mind if there are such less logical parts since it's about 12 years of making a story where almost every week the author has to come up with something unexpected and cool. Just an example that comes to my mind now: why didn't Itachi use Shisui's eye on Danzou or Tobi or his own father? He could have prevented everything with that. If i were Itachi i would have first used the eye to make Danzou my subordinate, then order him to give back the other eye, then use the other eye to make my father follow my orders, that way both sides that wanted a civil war would be under my orders and that would have secured the peace for which Shisui died. And of course then Itachi could have used both organizations to become the next hokage and begin to search for Tobi and kill him, and then it's the happy end of the story |
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2012-09-30, 11:55 | Link #85 | ||
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2012-09-30, 13:02 | Link #86 | |
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2012-09-30, 16:13 | Link #89 | |||
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2012-09-30, 16:51 | Link #90 | ||||
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Author's Motivation: To serve as a red herring for the identity of Tobi. Shortly before the kage meeting, Kishi dropped hints that Danzou might be Tobi in order to throw us off the trail. Character's Motivation: Danzou's motivation for putting a Sharingan in his right eye socket and using Hashirama's cells was not based on a desire to mimic Tobi's appearance, but to attain the powers of the Sharingan - namely Kotoamatsukami as well as Izanagi. These are different motivations. Likewise with Obito's hair there are two motives - the author's and the character's. As far as the character goes, we don't need a deep explanation. He changed his image in more ways than one over the course of his lifetime. As far as the author goes, the motivation is to sell us on the Tobi=Madara idea by making Tobi look more Madara-like in flashback. There is no inconsistency here. Quote:
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2012-09-30, 17:14 | Link #91 | |
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Also he didn't attack the village with the Zetsu Army until the plan to capture all the tailed beasts with his team of elite ninja fell apart because they basically all died including his most powerful pawn, Pein. He doesn't even need to win the war, just use it to capture the Nine and Eight-tails to accomplish his plan. If we look at Obito/Tobi past actions, it become obvious that he rarely even fights people, instead preferring to let others do the dirty work for him like Sasuke with Danzo and the entire Akatsuki organization. Whether it is to hid his true abilities/identity or just his own preferences is debatable. Up to this point Tobi has relied almost solely on one distinctive ability which in itself is primarily defensive. I think Obito has always been more the plotter than fighter, trying to bend people to his will than facing them head on.
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2012-09-30, 17:26 | Link #92 | |||
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On the other hand we now know now that Tobi knew about the power of Shisui's eyes, he tried to take the eye from Danzou's corpse. So maybe he did know that Itachi has the other eye, and in that case he avoided any direct contact with Itachi because he feared that Itachi would use it on him and end all his plans. That would explain why he was hiding his identity from akatsuki, and even when he joined them he never met Itachi personally. I hoped for a hard and long training inside Itachi's tsukiyomi for that very reason. He is kinda dumb when it comes to learning, but if he had a few years and a good teacher... Naruto has a huge amount of chakra, he could really make great jutsu combinations that Kakashi can't because he runs out of chakra no matter how many jutsu he knows. At least he came up with combinations of rasengan, but i hope his big fight against Madara and later Sasuke won't be just rasengans and kage bunshins. A really cool ninja fight is like the Sasuke vs Danzou, where both used many types of jutsu, i really hope the next Sasuke vs Naruto won't be a powerup and monster battle like the one they had in the VotE, but a balanced one, both smart ninja fighting and powerups. Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2012-09-30 at 17:48. |
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2012-09-30, 19:28 | Link #93 | |||
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2012-09-30, 20:24 | Link #94 | |||
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2012-09-30, 22:41 | Link #95 |
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Regardless of what happens, I hope Kishimoto manages to explain the 'little' things in the end without leaving them there as just a way to keep us guessing until the time came. Things on that list:
-Tobi's left arm turning to good during the Minato fight (this is most likely to be explained) -The constant hair changing (yes, hair grows and gets cut, but this is fiction, where characters are designed and look a certain way for up to whole series unless something happens) +In fiction and particularly manga, a character's hairstyle only really changes after a timeskip or due to some emotional growth of some sort. The best example of this, from THIS series even, is Sakura's cutting of her own hair in the Chuunin exams--she stopped being a girly girl and wanted to become a serious ninja who didnt need to worry about looks. So hopefully, Obito (if he really WAS Tobi in all those flashbacks), will get his constant hair changing explained/shown, because as just a red herring/way to fool us, it's kind of weak. Wonder what's going to happen next chapter. Methinks the Zetsu armor will hold Obito back so he doesn't get involved and instead can only watch as his friends die (or Obito trusts Kakashi's abilities and stays hidden because of that, only to be disappointed.) This is mainly because if Obito interferes as is, one would think Kakashi would recognize that swirly pattern/one eye showing when he first saw Tobi years later. That and if Obito interferes, then he couldn't really ever properly blame Kakashi for Rin's death, since he could have done somethign to help her too. |
2012-10-01, 10:43 | Link #96 |
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I like how you pick and choose what requires explanation and what doesn't. so according to you, 2 different flashbacks in which a character looks different needs no explanation, but 1 sentence that does have a reasonable explanation needs a more complete one?
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2012-10-01, 12:10 | Link #97 | |
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And "it was just a metaphor" is nothing close to a reasonable explanation.
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2012-10-01, 13:57 | Link #99 | |
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also, you are very quick to sweep certain things under the rug as red herrings without a second thought, but in some cases it just isn't acceptable to you for some reason. madara's one line about the time of his death will most likely end up being a red herring to throw readers off in relation to the timeline |
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