[Manga] Naruto Chapter 605 Discussion Thread

[mystogan]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

uh, madara was running out of time, he could barely move at that point, he needed someone to carry on his plan, then all of a sudden an uchiha conveniently fell into his lap, an uchiha with great potential at that. isn't that one hell of a coincidence? personally, i prefer the idea of madara choosing obito and deliberately orchestrating his transition to the dark side so to speak. madara is known to be a schemer, not some guy who would bet everything on luck.

madara's body has long died, his current body is attached to the Mazou that's why he still lives, it's not that he was going to die in the next few years, and can give a single good reason as to why madara would "choose" obito before hand, obito is not a child prodigy neither he was elite, even kakashi without sharingan would be powerful than obito with sharingan, when they were a team

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by mystogan

madara's body has long died, his current body is attached to the Mazou that's why he still lives, it's not that he was going to die in the next few years, and can give a single good reason as to why madara would "choose" obito before hand, obito is not a child prodigy neither he was elite, even kakashi without sharingan would be powerful than obito with sharingan, when they were a team

He said "POTENTIAL" which means Obito had the capability to become what Madara wanted him to be. Just like Naruto - he wasn't as powerful as Sasuke when Jiraya took him under his wing BUT he had the potential for it.


Oh, and I have no idea how Madara knew of his potential btw. So, don't ask me

[mystogan]

Originally Posted by Eragon

He said "POTENTIAL" which means Obito had the capability to become what Madara wanted him to be. Just like Naruto - he wasn't as powerful as Sasuke when Jiraya took him under his wing BUT he had the potential for it.


Oh, and I have no idea how Madara knew of his potential btw. So, don't ask me

i never said obito wasn't potential, in a way everyone is potential of doing great things
and i am pretty sure madara din't analyse every bit of obito's chakra to decide what he is capable of, i think he believed that obito could carry out his vision, may be it was instinct

[Phoenix321]

Didn't Obito say that he was a descendent of Madara when Madara first confessed his identity to him?
Reason enough for Obito to have Potential!

Spoiler for 602 Pannel:

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by mystogan

madara's body has long died, his current body is attached to the Mazou that's why he still lives, it's not that he was going to die in the next few years, and can give a single good reason as to why madara would "choose" obito before hand, obito is not a child prodigy neither he was elite, even kakashi without sharingan would be powerful than obito with sharingan, when they were a team

but he finally did die, otherwise there would be no edo-tensei madara to summon. and we didn't know exactly when, it could be that he died shortly after obito became his pupil and partner, which is a few years after he supposedly found a half-dead uchiha boy. whatever was keeping him alive at that time was temporary and he knew it. madara could have chosen obito because he knew he could manipulate him into doing what he wanted, and if obito is indeed a direct descendant of his then it wouldn't matter if he was a goof ball or a loser, he possesses the genes and the potential needed for madara's plans.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Phoenix321

Didn't Obito say that he was a descendent of Madara when Madara first confessed his identity to him?
Reason enough for Obito to have Potential!

Spoiler for 602 Pannel:

It's unclear if that panel was meant to imply direct descent or just familial bond.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Obito is descended from Izuna, and Sasuke and Itachi are Madara's descendents.

[prakash123]

Originally Posted by james0246

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Obito is descended from Izuna, and Sasuke and Itachi are Madara's descendents.

i kind of agree with ur statement there cause if u wiki obito and izuna there share same birth symbols,birthdates and blood type.i dont think its a coincidence.i think thats why madara 'chose' obito.madara somehow forsees izuna within obito.

also on the last few pages what was it that obito did?did he cast a genjustsu?if it was then since when was genjustsu able to kill.or was it a teaser of the moons eye plan?

on a sidenote did anyone else notice the MS transformation in kakashis eye resembled madara's MS on pg 4...just for fun

[Hisoka??]

Originally Posted by Phoenix321

Didn't Obito say that he was a descendent of Madara when Madara first confessed his identity to him?
Reason enough for Obito to have Potential!

Spoiler for 602 Pannel:

In Asian context, your great grand uncle is still considered your ancestor even if you didn't directly descend from him. So it isn't clear.

[Methuselah]

Originally Posted by Hisoka??

In Asian context, your great grand uncle is still considered your ancestor even if you didn't directly descend from him. So it isn't clear.

Well granted the Clan is Uchiha and like ANY clan, incestry is often and common to preserver bloodlines. You'd definitely won't see something like interracial marriage.

I guess only Naruto's mom did such a thing as interracial marriage to a white guy.

[ranchan13]

Originally Posted by Methuselah

I guess only Naruto's mom did such a thing as interracial marriage to a white guy.

Lucky Naruto, the only ninja in Konoha who isn't an inbred hick.

[mystogan]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

but he finally did die, otherwise there would be no edo-tensei madara to summon. and we didn't know exactly when, it could be that he died shortly after obito became his pupil and partner, which is a few years after he supposedly found a half-dead uchiha boy. whatever was keeping him alive at that time was temporary and he knew it. madara could have chosen obito because he knew he could manipulate him into doing what he wanted, and if obito is indeed a direct descendant of his then it wouldn't matter if he was a goof ball or a loser, he possesses the genes and the potential needed for madara's plans.

when obito said that i am pretty sure he din't mean it literally, madara is a man from long lost in history, i mean yes he is a descentant of madara but i think obito is not a direct grand grand grand grand .......son of madara, they pretty much distant members of the same clan from different time

And i think madara died only so that he could be reincarnated in his prime later by obito making use of nagato's rinnegan technique

[Phoenix321]

Personally, the value I see in this chapter is the comparison of Obito and Naruto.
Zetsu/Harashima's cells for Obito is what Karuma is for Naruto: A foreign source of power that was fused to their bodies.
Seing how Zetsu first took advantage over the death of Rin, I could imagine Naruto going full 9-tails/hatred version upon seeing Sasuke killing Sakura with a chidori.

[Moonkeeper]

I think your forgetting something, Rin had a eye trait also they could of been after her also. But i think were about to fine out where Obito got Rinngan at, probly took them from her.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by prakash123

i kind of agree with ur statement there cause if u wiki obito and izuna there share same birth symbols,birthdates and blood type.i dont think its a coincidence.i think thats why madara 'chose' obito.madara somehow forsees izuna within obito.

also on the last few pages what was it that obito did?did he cast a genjustsu?if it was then since when was genjustsu able to kill.or was it a teaser of the moons eye plan?

on a sidenote did anyone else notice the MS transformation in kakashis eye resembled madara's MS on pg 4...just for fun

it looks like he perhaps threw some "tree shuriken" at the mist ninja then weaved a sign that caused them to activate or something into larger branches that impaled the poor guy...yes i think obito is a descendant of izuna as well. and for fun shisui is too...

[Mateus]

Originally Posted by Moonkeeper

I think your forgetting something, Rin had a eye trait also they could of been after her also. But i think were about to fine out where Obito got Rinngan at, probly took them from her.

Uh what? Madara had the rinnegan and then he gave it to Nagao -- whether this happened before or after Obito is unclear. I don't know where you're getting the idea that Rin had a special (Rinnegan?) eye from either.

[b1gdawg]

Originally Posted by Mateus

Uh what? Madara had the rinnegan and then he gave it to Nagao -- whether this happened before or after Obito is unclear. I don't know where you're getting the idea that Rin had a special (Rinnegan?) eye from either.

Madara gave Nagato the rinnegan before Obito. There's no way Nagato got it from Obito, i don't know why Kishi made Tobi say that he's taking back what is his. Jiraiya was Minato's teacher AFTER Jiraiya had trained Nagato Yahiko and Konan, so it's impossible that Obito gave it to Nagato because Nagato got the rinnegan probably before Obito was born.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by b1gdawg

Madara gave Nagato the rinnegan before Obito. There's no way Nagato got it from Obito, i don't know why Kishi made Tobi say that he's taking back what is his. Jiraiya was Minato's teacher AFTER Jiraiya had trained Nagato Yahiko and Konan, so it's impossible that Obito gave it to Nagato because Nagato got the rinnegan probably before Obito was born.

Just for my knowledge since I don't have ages on either minato or nagato, how do we know this?

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

Just for my knowledge since I don't have ages on either minato or nagato, how do we know this?

As far as I know, there is nothing in the manga or databook that can confirm the exact ages of either Minato or Nagato. However, Nagato is estimated by some to have been in his early 40s at the time of his death. Minato would be around the same age as Nagato, perhaps slightly younger.

Here are a couple methods of estimating Nagato's age:

Method 1:

In Page 8 of Chapter 427, Chouji estimates that Deva Path (Yahiko) is approximately 25-30 years old. This means that Yahiko was 25-30 years old at the time of his death. When did Yahiko die? He died in the confrontation with Hanzo during the Third Shinobi War. We know that the Third Shinobi War ended shortly after Kakashi Gaiden (about 1 year before Naruto was born). Thus Yahiko was 25-30 at least 1 year before Naruto was born. Naruto is now 16 years old. So, we can add 17 to figure how old Yahiko would be if he survived to the present. (25 to30) + 17 = (42 to 47 years old). If Nagato was around the same age as Yahiko or slightly younger, then Nagato would be in his early to mid 40s

Method 2:

We start with Dan Kato (Tsunade's lover) who died in the Second Shinobi World War. According to the databook, he died at age 27. Now we make the estimation that Tsunade, (and therefore Jiraiya), was close in age to Dan. And around the same time that Dan died, Jiraiya was training Nagato, Konan, and Yahiko. As for Nagato's age during this period, we can look at what Jiraiya said on Page 11 of Chapter 375: "He [Nagato] possessed the ability to use any type of ninjutsu he desires since the age of 10". Now Jiraiya trained Nagato for 3 years. It's not clear whether Jiraiya means that Nagato had the Rinnegan starting at 10, or whether 10 is when Nagato finished his training. But if, at the time of Jiraiya's departure, we approximate Nagato's and Jiraiya's ages to be 13 and 27 respectively, then the difference between their ages is 27-13 = 14 years. Jiraiya died at age 54. So, if Nagato is about 14 years younger than Jiraiya, then Nagato would have been around 40 at the time of his death.

So, here we have two independent methods by which Nagato is estimated to have been in his early 40s at the time of his death.

[b1gdawg]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

Just for my knowledge since I don't have ages on either minato or nagato, how do we know this?

Uhm... well Yahiko (The main Path of Pain, that naruto fought) died in the Third war. Jiraiya had trained him, Konan, and Nagato during the 2nd war. Obito was "captured" by Madara in the third war. Nagato awakened his rinnegan before he was trained by Jiraiya. Madara even said he had given his Eyes to some1 else. The ages aren't very important... and Narutopedia said that Jiraiya trained Minato and 2 other unknowns (hope they get revealed in the story cuz i bet they'd be strong) after he had trained Nagato.

[Kowai]

Would be a cool chapter by itself... But kishi is writing in circles most recently now he needs a chap to explain why tobito never used mokuton until this flashback.