Lucky Star - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[Risaa]

I don't want to get too off-topic, but you guys are tempting me too much.

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

It's love it how everyday western bed rooms like Kona's have western beds but still have the traditional Japanese low table, and everyone still sits on the floor. If I'm loaded enough in the future I will turn one of my rooms into a Japanese room. However, I don't think it's easy to find the supplies or the labor.

My home contains a mixture of Western and Korean furnature in it. Every meal is eaten on a decorated low-to-the-ground table (no chairs - we sit on the floor), and we sleep on the floor, just as I always do while visiting Korea (although ever since there was that special on air-mattresses, it hasn't been just a blanket between me and floor ). There are various Korean (and noticeably Eastern-Asian in style) dressers, side-tables, an armoire, a hutch, lamps, etc... and little decorations as well, figurines and dolls..

It's really not terribly different than my cousins' apartments in Korea, though they prefer to sleep on a western-style bed and eat at a table with chairs. Ah, but I really like their fridge/freezer designed *especially* for keeping kimchi in.

if it's summer and you sleep on a tatami, then a small blanket maybe enough.

It depends on the area, but omg, a small blanket may make you break out in a sweat in the summertime. It's so humid!!

[Karnot]

It depends on the area, but omg, a small blanket may make you break out in a sweat in the summertime.

That means there are even more chances to catch cold. Seriously, i thought it is pretty much _instinctive_ to cover one's legs first, not stomach. You have lots of internal organs in the stomach, it will be warm anyway. Legs wont.

[kenjiharima]

Just saw the subs and what a LOL!!!

I love the way Techno and the Sgt.Frog cast tired to reel in the Legendary A.Girl into buying some anime stuff from Gamers. Gave it a 10 for that. They should include hot blood segements like that it's so funny especially when you blend LS characters to non-looking LS crazy!!! I also noticed when Techno hypnotized Konata ala Code Geass she looked like Shion from Hagurishi naKokoroni.

About the Live Minoru...well imho the girls are not mad their laughing their heart out LOL turn the camera and you'll see Maybe that could mean a L.A. in the future? Maybe... ???

[Skane]

The following is based on [a.f.k.]'s fansub.

Random Thoughts On Ep13:
---- ----

• The episode starts off with more comedic dynamics between Kagami and Konata. A routine that has never failed to please. There is just something that is very engaging about watching the two of them duke it out with each other in a battle of wits and ribs.
  
  The... deviant in me suggests that it might be the Yuri-innuendos that make it so appealing, but the critic in me says it is something else (especially since I am not really an ardent fan of Yuri). An element that is currently intangible to me.
  .
• The scene of Kagami slumping onto her desk ([02:05]) puzzled me at first because there was just something off about it, and it took repeated rewinds before I realised what was so "different" about it.
  
  KyoAni actually went the extra mile to animate the folds and creases of her uniform as she slumped onto her desk. This is a level above the norm and something that can be considered to be intricate (but not mind-blowing).
  
  It is nevertheless, in stark contrast to the rest of the "standard-fare" where the uniform sections are more or less solid blocks that do not fold or crease as they move their limbs about.
  .
• Did anybody else find it facepalmingly-ironic that [a.f.k.] chose to translate the Japanese game of "Paste-The-Face" as "Pin-The-Donkey's-Tail" when Miyuki mentions mere moments later that her family does not play Western games but more traditional Japanese ones during New Year?
  
  The level of irony is almost as bad as the following image-
  
  
  For the love of context! Please either use the proper terms and let the viewer do some research on the terms, or use footnotes. You have already shown that you are not completely adverse to the usage of footnotes, so please do not make a mockery out of the context unnecessarily.
  .
• Kagami being all dere-dere over food... Words fail me to describe the scene adequately.
  .
• Tsukasa's solitary line at [05:45] just tickles me for some reason.
  .
• Miyuki's dream interpretation can also be used as a metaphor for her current status in the anime. She might be aiming for more screentime and a bigger presence in the casting.
  .
• Kagami's verbal barbs towards Konata continue to be golden.
  .
• I will never understand KyoAni's choice of budget allocation in Lucky Star. The bus scene where they were talking about the Kotatsu was simply overkill. Additionally, I hope I am not the only one who noticed that this episode was very, very minimalistic and very, very budget compared to the usual fare by KyoAni.
  
  There were a lot of static frames, static backgrounds, static layers, 1-colour backgrounds, etc... At times, it felt as though I was watching the TV-broadcast of Hidamari Sketch.
  
  It was not so apparent in the fansub since I was devoting a lot of attention to reading and comprehending the subtitles, but it was painfully obvious when I watching the RAW. This might be KyoAni's lowest budget episode ever, or at least it looks like it is.
  .
• Kagami's various facial expressions during Konata's disclosure about her Valentine's chocolates were a hoot to watch. Especially when Kagami decided to go for the "Oh Whatever" choice and accept bliss in acceptance.
  .
• Coy insertion of chords from one of Fumoffu's more memorable BGMs is a definite plus in my books.
  .
• There has been a lot of discussion of the ANIMATE scene already, so I will just state one word to convey my thoughts about it.
  
  INTENSE.

Cheers.

[Claies]

Originally Posted by Skane

Did anybody else find it facepalmingly-ironic that [a.f.k.] chose to translate the Japanese game of "Paste-The-Face" as "Pin-The-Donkey's-Tail" when Miyuki mentions mere moments later that her family does not play Western games but more traditional Japanese ones during New Year?

The level of irony is almost as bad as the following image-


For the love of context! Please either use the proper terms and let the viewer do some research on the terms, or use footnotes. You have already shown that you are not completely adverse to the usage of footnotes, so please do not make a mockery out of the context unnecessarily.

And continuing your analogy, I resemble the normal American in which I completely lost what paste-the-face is. I thought it was just Miyuki going off-trail and stating pin-the-donkey's-tail, since Konata later questioned it.

Originally Posted by Skane

Tsukasa's solitary line at [05:45] just tickles me for some reason.

Rice cake goes whee!

I love her submarining sniper lines.

Originally Posted by Skane

I will never understand KyoAni's choice of budget allocation in Lucky Star. The bus scene where they were talking about the Kotatsu was simply overkill. Additionally, I hope I am not the only one who noticed that this episode was very, very minimalistic and very, very budget compared to the usual fare by KyoAni.

There were a lot of static frames, static backgrounds, static layers, 1-colour backgrounds, etc... At times, it felt as though I was watching the TV-broadcast of Hidamari Sketch.

It was not so apparent in the fansub since I was devoting a lot of attention to reading and comprehending the subtitles, but it was painfully obvious when I watching the RAW. This might be KyoAni's lowest budget episode ever, or at least it looks like it is.

They might be saving up for another glamour sequence. Lets check the list over...
Episode 6 - Completely 3D Initial D racing
Episode 10 - Anime Tencho Team's first appearance
Episode 12 - Tomokazu vs. Tomokazu

So I won't be surprised that they'd be saving up for another in the near future. They must have noticed how the Initial D gig drew in the laughs.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Skane

The following is based on [a.f.k.]'s fansub.

Random Thoughts On Ep13:
---- ----

• The episode starts off with more comedic dynamics between Kagami and Konata. A routine that has never failed to please. There is just something that is very engaging about watching the two of them duke it out with each other in a battle of wits and ribs.
  
  The... deviant in me suggests that it might be the Yuri-innuendos that make it so appealing, but the critic in me says it is something else (especially since I am not really an ardent fan of Yuri). An element that is currently intangible to me.

To date, I've thought the element was just that societally perfect comic duo effect (japanese or american). The timing is so snappy. They're not average girls - they sound more like the girls on the high school debate team I act as 'team-dad' for.

• Did anybody else find it facepalmingly-ironic that [a.f.k.] chose to translate the Japanese game of "Paste-The-Face" as "Pin-The-Donkey's-Tail" when Miyuki mentions mere moments later that her family does not play Western games but more traditional Japanese ones during New Year?
  
  For the love of context! Please either use the proper terms and let the viewer do some research on the terms, or use footnotes. You have already shown that you are not completely adverse to the usage of footnotes, so please do not make a mockery out of the context unnecessarily.

And that's a classic reason why over-localization bites your ass when using it to translate intrinsically foreign concepts. It's why though I'll download them just to keep up with show... what I'll keep until the DVDs come out is the EnA version (not perfect as they've had a couple of face-palm moments but a lot closer to the original meaning and context).

And throughout the episode Kagami's dialog is gold Its really what got me hooked on the manga much more than Konata's initial lure of fangirlness.

• I will never understand KyoAni's choice of budget allocation in Lucky Star. The bus scene where they were talking about the Kotatsu was simply overkill. Additionally, I hope I am not the only one who noticed that this episode was very, very minimalistic and very, very budget compared to the usual fare by KyoAni.

The bus scene itself with the camera angles on hips, hands, and such seemed a combination of almost sensual art and budget. But yes, the overall budget was minimalistic. The funny thing is that Lucky*Star manga at its core is a talking head very verbal comic strip (though very cutely and often texturally drawn).... so the more source material they use, the less movement they have to deal with and the more they can spend on those tiny details (like Kagami's slump or little 'unnecessary' movements like flipping their hair ). Watching their budget allocation on animation has been a bit wierd..almost like they're saying SURPRISE!!! GOTCHA! at times.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Skane

...I will never understand KyoAni's choice of budget allocation in Lucky Star....

Isn't it obvious? They are free to save money on most of the show, and then to give us some occasional big hits of wonderful overkill, while still keeping the budget fairly low. If they did it all cheap, we would rebel, and if they did it all expensive, they wouldn't make any money. The 4-koma talking-head nature of the humor makes it possible. But perhaps we should not overestimate how cheap this is, because the movements are really pretty well animated at all times, it seems to me. Especially in ep14.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Isn't it obvious? They are free to save money on most of the show, and then to give us some occasional big hits of wonderful overkill, while still keeping the budget fairly low. If they did it all cheap, we would rebel, and if they did it all expensive, they wouldn't make any money. The 4-koma talking-head nature of the humor makes it possible. But perhaps we should not overestimate how cheap this is, because the movements are really pretty well animated at all times, it seems to me. Especially in ep14.

And yet some people seem are really genuinely confused by this, possibly from lack of experience or just naivete (not talking about Skane). It's basically the same deal with every studio, keep a balanced budget, but be generous where it counts. If you don't follow these simple rules you won't be very successful.

[AVPlaya]

Originally Posted by Vexx

To date, I've thought the element was just that societally perfect comic duo effect (japanese or american). The timing is so snappy. They're not average girls - they sound more like the girls on the high school debate team I act as 'team-dad' for.

Yeah they are a classic manzai team. Konata is the boke and Kagami is the tsukkomi. I always thought Kagami over explain the punchlines, but I then realized that's part of what tsukkomi does in a manzai team, and the seriousness of the tsukkomi is part of the humor.

And that's a classic reason why over-localization bites your ass when using it to translate intrinsically foreign concepts. It's why though I'll download them just to keep up with show... what I'll keep until the DVDs come out is the EnA version (not perfect as they've had a couple of face-palm moments but a lot closer to the original meaning and context).

I tried to watch a few a.f.k fansubs just to see how they translate, but I either ended up LOL or getting frustrated at their translation attempts. In some series over-localization maybe needed, but for an series like L*S which intentionally emphasis distinctly Japanese cultural references for the otakus to lookup, they way they translate is unnecessary and annoying. This is a series where faithful translation with translation notes is required, methinks. I know some of you may disagree but I really felt if you watch L*S only through a.f.k translations you are not enjoying this series nearly as much as you should. They are taking the otaku joy out of it.

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

I tried to watch a few a.f.k fansubs just to see how they translate, but I either ended up LOL or getting frustrated at their translation attempts. In some series over-localization maybe needed, but for an series like L*S which intentionally emphasis distinctly Japanese cultural references for the otakus to lookup, they way they translate is unnecessary and annoying. This is a series where faithful translation with translation notes is required, methinks. I know some of you may disagree but I really felt if you watch L*S only through a.f.k translations you are not enjoying this series nearly as much as you should. They are taking the otaku joy out of it.

Seconded! A.f.k. is a good sub group, but for a show like L*S, their style of localizing everything really doesn't work well. (I tend to prefer a more literal translation style anyways.) While I followed them, I suffered from a lot of, "hey, that's not what I heard them say!!" I like WinD the best, but I've been following EnA in the meantime... Eep, I need to catch up.

I have to wonder if a.f.k. caught that (Miyuki saying she plays pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey, but then saying she doesn't play westen games much).

[Karnot]

they way they translate is unnecessary and annoying.

I really cant see what is wrong with a.f.k. translation.
EnA ? Dont make me laugh at their clumsy scripts.

[Risaa]

As he already said, some of us *will* disagree... No need to get into a petty war over it.

[Vexx]

I'd guess they didn't catch it (not realizing pin-the-tail isn't universal or not back-checking their choices) or they were just stuck and hoped no one would notice. Seriously... localization runs the danger of giving you the "What's up, Tiger Lily?" result -- it might be funny (or even funnier) but I think people are more interested in what makes the original so popular... however, that's why its a good thing to have more than one group subbing this or any other series.
It provides a range of choices. For me at least, too much localization provides a false sense of comfort for the non-speaker of japanese and can result in a serious enough change of meaning that one is no longer watching the series one might think one is.

@Karnot: <shrug> then it shouldn't bother you to watch a.f.k. ... it is not a case of "wrong", it is a case of interpretation choices. If you review the various episode threads, you'll see where occasionally a.f.k.'s choices were unpopular with people who know more than a bit of japanese or japanese culture. As has been stated, Lucky*Star is intrinsically cultural in many respects so you're going to get differences of opinion about what sort of translation is the best choice.

EnA may comes across a bit awkward at times but you don't lose as much of the cultural "feel" in the dialog, imo. So I prefer theirs. I'd probably like WinD even more - but are they even working on the show anymore?

[shinku no kage]

Finally got to watch it. -w-

Started off nicely with a lot Kona+Kagamin talk. Nice. Following up was the New year topic. Personally I'd thought that Konata's family would have spent it the traditional Japanese way. Hmmmm...Izumi-sensei caught me off guard this time. (-_-)

...what was it with the subs though? "Pin the tail on the donkey"? Ugh, WHAT!!?

....VALENTINE!!! Ah, its sad yet "entertaining" to see that none of the L*S gals have a lover(Kona's online fantasy marriage is a no count for me), than again if they did than they'd lose fans. Heh, Shiraishi seemed to find someone. LOL, a GUY!! (>w<)/ Muwahahahaha

Kona's "Ugu~"...*passes out* m (_ _) _

Anime tencho seems to be taking the steps of becoming a "regular' in the series.(Probably more popular than Miyuki-san?) (o.O) (Forgive me Miyuki-san fans!!)!! Not that I'd have any objections to it. Ah, the cast of "Keroro Gunsou/Sgt.Frog" are getting their chances. =w=

-Lucky Channel
LOVED Akira's twin drills. Too bad we didnt get to see them in action. LOL

-ED
What a coincidence, just bought the vol.2 of Haruhi today and I saw the ep that Shiraishi's char appeared singing "Wa,wa,wa~..." Hmmmm...is this the work of _____? (=w=)?

-Preview
Sergeant!? NICE!! (>w<)/ But...not much of a preview. ^^;

[Chi-no]

Cute ending for this..... Something different ... hehe ...

[risingstar3110]

Watching this episode and episode 11 again make me wondering....

Spoiler:

...if Yui's sister/cousin is the really tall, gloomy-looking, green hair girl in the OP. It will be surely hilarious if that's true since Kotana still believe there is someone who is shorter than her

[Mirrinus]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Watching this episode and episode 11 again make me wondering....

Spoiler:

...if Yui's sister/cousin is the really tall, gloomy-looking, green hair girl in the OP. It will be surely hilarious if that's true since Kotana still believe there is someone who is shorter than her

Too bad...Yui's sister is revealed in the next episode. And Konata is certainly not wrong.

[Claies]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Watching this episode and episode 11 again make me wondering....

Spoiler:

...if Yui's sister/cousin is the really tall, gloomy-looking, green hair girl in the OP. It will be surely hilarious if that's true since Kotana still believe there is someone who is shorter than her

Spoiler for spoiler:

No. That gloomy-looking girl is going to be that cousin's best friend. I'm not making this up.

[risingstar3110]

Too bad...Yui's sister is revealed in the next episode. And Konata is certainly not wrong.

Damn ..... bad guess there =P
Still, she can't be shorter than Konata, right?

PS:Edit: I take this back, she is shorter than Konata >___O

[arkon]

Originally Posted by Risaa

Seconded! A.f.k. is a good sub group, but for a show like L*S, their style of localizing everything really doesn't work well. (I tend to prefer a more literal translation style anyways.) While I followed them, I suffered from a lot of, "hey, that's not what I heard them say!!" I like WinD the best, but I've been following EnA in the meantime... Eep, I need to catch up.

I have to wonder if a.f.k. caught that (Miyuki saying she plays pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey, but then saying she doesn't play westen games much).

Well in their sub they didn't have Miyuki saying she doesn't play western games much. "Mere moments later" they have her saying "My family follows western customs but our relatives in the country are more traditional". So unless they translated that "wrong" there's no mention of her saying they don't play western games much or not at all during New Year

Perhaps they did it as part of the "joke" or something. Since as Claies mentioned, Konata later on questions it (in their sub) "Wait, why Pin the Tail on the Donkey?"
If it even was a joke. It's hard to tell being Lucky Star and all.