Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[-Sho-]

I wonder what sin he commited to such an extent Beatrice seems sad and give up ...
It's meh , because , i was intrigued by the detective's part then all end up with that ...
I think they wanted to make a confuse anime with many things who get out nowhere and changing the times ... but in the end it fails .
Oh well , best episodes was the firsts imo .

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

but in the end it fails .

It hasn't ended yet.

[June 1983]

Preview for Ep 25: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGa918FblRA

As always, please be aware that the previews contain spoilers.

[Ronove]

Originally Posted by June 1983

Preview for Ep 25: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGa918FblRA

As always, please be aware that the previews contain spoilers.

Thank you for the previews!

It seems Ange is going to be mutilated. Is this person Kyrie's sister?

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

No.

Battler committed a sin

The meaning of "sin" is subjected to various interpretations but Beatrice is definitely saying that Battler himself commited that sin.

That sin might have led to more serious consequences but that's not What Beatrice is referring to.

Batler commited a sin, but was that our batler? if we assume that asumu's biological son is another batler, then the one who commited the sin was him, that's why batler can't remember a thing; this batler might be a ploy to get the inheritance, as he is the only direct-line-male ushiromiya.

[Jan-Poo]

I admit nothing prevents that theory from being true, however, personally, I've never really liked it. I think it would be a lot more dramatically outstanding if in the future it will be revealed what kind of sin the main character committed, rather than showing a sin that was done by someone else.

[ijriims]

Context, context..... Don't just look at the red texts and ignore the dialogue between Battler and Beato.

A few things worth mentioning in this anime episode, compared to SN:

Spoiler for for those have not seen the episode yet:

1. Battler saw clearly that Kumasawa and Gohda were not just hanged, but also shot in the forehead, since the light was on.

2. Beatrice kept her umbrella when she had been talking with Battler.

3. Kyrie's group did not die in the same way or in the same location as mentioned in the SN, perhaps except Shannon and Kanon. (Hey, that extrance to the secret tunnel looked really small)

4. George's body was not discovered before Battler went to the balcony. (It means perhaps George was still alive, but if what Battler did after his encounter with Beatrice was to go to rose garden and discovered George, that would not make much difference)

[Crontica]

Spoiler for Episode 24 Speculations:

There is seriously not enough background info on Battler to conclude on what sin he had caused. The 14 year gap between his leave from the house to his return to the island is a blackhole.

For all we know since Battler is a dense idiot, during his stay with Kyerie he unknowingly triggered her berserk button.

Kyerie who already saw Battler as a obstacle, went to go and arrange it so that he died in a accident. Person A caught wind of this and died in the process preventing it. Unfortunately this pissed off Person B who sore vengeance against the people who took Person A away from them.


Edit:
Damit i just remembered. Why would he stay with Kyerie when she and his Dad is the reason he left in the first place... He went to stay with his relatives... There goes the whole post m(_ _)m.

Then the one who is related to this must be people he stayed with during those 14 years.

[KanonTheFurniture]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Well could just be pulling a trick like before and is pulling out being worried that Battler might win. Either way it's just weird. I'd still lean towards trick since seriously besides pressing the self-destruct button on a ship there is nothing a little kid could have done to cause this situation.

I know it's been said about ten million times already, but you also said you didn't want to read the rest of the thread's flamewar (and I don't blame you, us VN players can be a very critical lot), so I'll say it again. Beatrice's talk with Battler in this scene was supposed to be in red. The Anime mind-bogglingly changed that.

Spoiler for screenshots:

And this one isn't red, but just for clarification since a few people have already asked:

So at the very least, Beato is NOT trolling about Battler committing a sin and that sin causing people to die. Is she genuinely upset or just using this fact to get to him for another fakeout? We can't say, though I personally believe her attitude here is genuine. She is however definitely trying to trick him - albeit not in the 'hahaha you fell for it' way she did at the end of EP3 - by saying in red that Asumu did not give birth to him. Obviously it's true, but he's still Rudolf's son and thus Kinzo's grandson. He's just too shocked to think clearly at the time, which is to Beato's advantage so she can abandon the game. Nonetheless, the Anime went and made things way more confusing by omitting that red.

As for Beato's goal abandoning the game, she's not even 'quitting' it because yeah, that would essentially mean a forfeit and Battler would win. Rather she's just choosing to walk away from it, because the game cannot continue without both players. Imagine you and a buddy are playing chess and he gets up to go to the bathroom...and then goes home. Well, he didn't lose, you didn't win...the game just stopped. And then you had to clean up the table for dinner or something so you packed the chess set away, leaving your game forever unfinished, the chess set gathering dust in the closet. There is no winner or loser. The game can't go on without both players, so Beato is doing just that - walking away and leaving the game to gather dust for the rest of eternity.

Originally Posted by JanPoo

That's not a translation problem. In the novel Kyrie says (りゅうざん) "miscarriage" in the anime she says (しざん) "stillbirth". The problem is in the original text itself that suddenly changed, but the translations are 100% correct in both cases.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. That's interesting, then. This is one of those things where I'm not sure if I should just stick to the VN version, or consider the Anime's alteration as some sort of hint.

Originally Posted by Ronove

Is this person Kyrie's sister?

Yes. I don't blame you for being confused, since she pretty much got like two lines in the Anime so far, but the white-haired woman chasing Ange is Kasumi, Kyrie's sister. In other words, after Eva's death, she's Ange's closest living relative, her aunt on Kyrie's side of the family. Also, would you mind putting your first statement in spoiler tags? June 1983 said the preview contained spoilers, so some people may have chosen not to watch it, and it'd be nice if you didn't reveal what you saw in it.

[Raneh]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

Batler commited a sin, but was that our batler? if we assume that asumu's biological son is another batler, then the one who commited the sin was him, that's why batler can't remember a thing; this batler might be a ploy to get the inheritance, as he is the only direct-line-male ushiromiya.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I admit nothing prevents that theory from being true, however, personally, I've never really liked it. I think it would be a lot more dramatically outstanding if in the future it will be revealed what kind of sin the main character committed, rather than showing a sin that was done by someone else.

Spoiler for left out from anime:

Actually Beatrice also said that

"The true Ushiromiya Battler did not commit a sin. But as a result, a sin occurred, the span of six years became a blank space, and a man who knew nothing of that time took the name Ushiromiya Battler and appeared on Rokkenjima."

Although this was not in red I see no reason why Beatrice would lie.
Besides, Beatrice's red truth also says
Because of your sin, people die.
and not "Because of Ushiromiya Battler's sin..."

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Spoiler for Episode 24 Speculations:

There is seriously not enough background info on Battler to conclude on what sin he had caused. The 14 year gap between his leave from the house to his return to the island is a blackhole.

For all we know since Battler is a dense idiot, during his stay with Kyerie he unknowingly triggered her berserk button.

Kyerie who already saw Battler as a obstacle, went to go and arrange it so that he died in a accident. Person A caught wind of this and died in the process preventing it. Unfortunately this pissed off Person B who sore vengeance against the people who took Person A away from them.


Edit:
Damit i just remembered. Why would he stay with Kyerie when she and his Dad is the reason he left in the first place... He went to stay with his relatives... There goes the whole post m(_ _)m.

Then the one who is related to this must be people he stayed with during those 14 years.

Wait it's only 6 years before, not 14.

-Asumu's death (Battler's mother, or so we thought so far)
-Rudolf's and Kyrie's marriage
-Ange's birth
-Battler renouncing to his Ushiromiya surname
-Battler's sin (the sin which Beatrice is talking about)

All of the above happened in 1980, 6 years before the game.

It is also useful to note that apparently Battler attended the family meeting in October 4, 1980. That's because everyone says that 6 years have passed since the last time and if math isn't an opinion the last time had to be 1980. In practice Battler only missed 5 family meetings, not 6.

Considering the fact that Beatrice stresses out that the sin is something appropriate for the place where they are "Rokkenjima", it is most probable that the sin Beatrice is talking about was commited by Battler either in the 4 or 5 October of 1980.

Unfortunately we don't know when Asumu died exactly, but if Ange is already considered 6 years old, then she should have been already born by then.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Wait it's only 6 years before, not 14.

-Asumu's death (Battler's mother, or so we thought so far)
-Rudolf's and Kyrie's marriage
-Ange's birth
-Battler renouncing to his Ushiromiya surname
-Battler's sin (the sin which Beatrice is talking about)

All of the above happened in 1980, 6 years before the game.

It is also useful to note that apparently Battler attended the family meeting in October 4, 1980. That's because everyone says that 6 years have passed since the last time and if math isn't an opinion the last time had to be 1980. In practice Battler only missed 5 family meetings, not 6.

Considering the fact that Beatrice stresses out that the sin is something appropriate for the place where they are "Rokkenjima", it is most probable that the sin Beatrice is talking about was commited by Battler either in the 4 or 5 October of 1980.

Unfortunately we don't know when Asumu died exactly, but if Ange is already considered 6 years old, then she should have been already born by then.

Spoiler for Island Theory:

Gah i still bring my self back to pointing at Kyrie, maybe she did something to Asumu while they where at the island.
The only other person i can think of that Battler ticked off to such an extent that sealed everyones fate is Kinzo. If you can think of anyone else with such a dangerously short temper then please share.

[KanonTheFurniture]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Spoiler for Island Theory:

Gah i still bring my self back to pointing at Kyrie, maybe she did something to Asumu while they where at the island.
The only other person i can think of that Battler ticked off to such an extent that sealed everyones fate is Kinzo. If you can think of anyone else with such a dangerously short temper then please share.

*cough* Rosa *cough*

Kidding, kidding.

[Jan-Poo]

And soon after Rosa in the list: Kanon.

It's certainly not a coincidence that he's often staked by Satan.

But it's not so necessary to think that the culprit has a short temper

[lovelysan]

People with short tempers don't tend to plan things either. Just saying.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

It's certainly not a coincidence that he's often staked by Satan.

That's an interesting coincidence, but I wonder if it matters much. Rosa, for one, has never been staked. Does that mean she's free from sin?

[tcaz2]

Going to go ahead and throw out the comical interpretation of Battler's sin right now:

Battler's sin occurred 6 years ago.
Ange is 6 years old at the time.
OMG.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by tcaz2

Going to go ahead and throw out the comical interpretation of Battler's sin right now:

Battler's sin occurred 6 years ago.
Ange is 6 years old at the time.
OMG.

Also:

Asumu died 6 years ago
Battler's sin happened 6 years ago.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Unfortunately we don't know when Asumu died exactly, but if Ange is already considered 6 years old, then she should have been already born by then.

Well in the game it's implied during Battler explaining the family situation to Suit Beato that he met Ange when Kyrie was introduced to him again as his step-mother, so she was probably born before Asumu even died.

[June 1983]

Asumu died, Rudolf married Kyrie, Battler left the family, and Ange was born.

Six years ago.

There's lots of things going on in that year, and any one of them could be related to the sin, or maybe all of them. It could also be that the sin occurred during the last family conference Battler attended six years ago.

[Kallen4life]

it's so bad ...