AnimeSuki Forums

Randrak42 · 2012-06-20, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlebas

I thought Koto was instantly recognizable when I started playing Period

.

To me it was like:

*hears first line*
.
.
.
*hears second line* Wait a minute...
.
.
.
*hears third line* Nooooo...
.
.
.
*hears forth line* OMG it is!!!
REVELATION!!!

Reckoner · 2012-06-21, 03:40

Well just finished refrain after delaying for so long. Now I enjoyed Little Busters overall, but this suffers from one critical flaw that plagued clannad AS. That is... A miracle that suddenly fixes everything and trivializes all the sacrifice and pain that got them to that point.

To me if it was just Rin and Riki at the end, the ending could have been perfect. Look I love all the other characters too, but I think the ending would've been so much more poignant and bittersweet (albeit heavy on the bitter) if their friend's sacrifice really was truly a sacrifice. There was already a miracle here, why did they have to overturn and trivialize everything? Same thing happened in Clannad AS.

KEY is afraid of giving harder endings and wants everything to just be happy. I guess I can't expect them to change at this point (Though didn't Air have a bitter ending? So it's not completely out of the question for them.).

In any case, I really loved the friendship the cast shared and all, they were plenty of fun. I wasn't much for the side routes in general besides Rin's and refrain, but they were ok. Felt more like added bonuses than anything, but were hardly satisfying.

So while I'm disappointed with the end, I'm still pretty happy to have played this and don't regret it. However, I cannot place this among the top VN's for that reason (Where I'll hold things like G senjou no Maou, Ever17, etc.).

Linkark07 · 2012-06-21, 19:38

Well, you could always think that the story ended with Rin and Riki only.

I believe that Key wants to give the ideal ending for everyone who plays their games. I gotta admit I have only played Clanand and Little Busters (still waiting for Rewrite english patch) but on both games you have different endings.

For people who like bittersweet endings you can always think that the story ends when the bad thing happens but if you hate that kind of endings and want the happy one you can accept the miracle and get your happy ending.

Reckoner · 2012-06-21, 20:06

I suppose you could say that, but the way it ends is totally unfulfilling if it ends there. There's no real closure to the story like that and the VN effectively galls you into going for the "ideal" ending. If they provided some more scenes of something like Riki and Rin being OK after the fact sometime later, then it would be more satisfying, but the VN just tells you "I hope you can make her happy." I mean WTH is that lol?

Linkark07 · 2012-06-21, 20:28

Open ending I suppose. It is up to the reader's imagination to see how will Riki make Rin happy.

Xacual · 2012-06-21, 21:28

Well you can always believe that all they managed to do was create a new dream world in the end that was only more stable than Kyousuke's was that let them re do the rescue and everything. That theory is perfectly justified, though i prefer the idea of the happy ending.

Randrak42 · 2012-06-22, 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdeal000

You mean like all the time travelling and stuff did not happen in the real world and they are doomed to live in a dream world forever because they could not move on?

Not so much DOOMED to live in the dream world but rather...given the chance to live.

Let's look at it this way. You are in a car accident, you know that you will die in that accident, however a bunch of your closest friends and family are also in the car, some will die and some won't. They are then able to create a dream world that allows you all to live out your lives together until you guys all die of old age and then pass on without regret.
That's a whole happy life you get to live. It's fake, yes...but then again you won't get the chance to live out one for real and if the fake one is indistinguishable from the real one then what's the difference to you?
The ending being another dream world isn't really a bad ending, it's a bitter-sweet one. On one hand you know those characters died, on the other you know they lived happy lives in the dream world before they passed on.

That said...I personally don't believe that this was what happened.
In my opinion the whole bit where Rin and Riki end up in the hospital alone was within the dream world. It was something set up by either Kyousuke, everyone or even Riki and Rin themselves without them even realizing, so they would be able to know what to do much better once back to the real world. It just so happened that Riki and Rin exceeded expectations when push came to shove.

(this is a bit more out of left field but I believe Kurugaya set up that first accident scene before she vanished from the dream world. She's superior to everyone else and seemed unusual about the accident afterwards...but this is my Kurugaya fanboyism acting up, ignore it.)

But that's the thing about this ending. First off you get the chance of ending it all with Rin and Riki alone (the more realistic and bitter approach) or move on to save them. And if you do you get these many possibilities as to what happened.
Are they still in a dream world?
Was there time travel or something like that?
Are Riki and/or Rin just imagining that they managed to save everyone as a coping mechanism?
Was this all in Kyousuke's head? (a popular theory a while back was that Kyousuke didn't go on the trip, everyone died and he went insane, creating this elaborate plot in his very messed up mind as a way to cope with the loss of everyone important to him)
Is Kurugaya a Goddess that changed everything using Rin and Riki as cover so no one finds out own purely godlike she is?

Just take your pick or make new ones.

Mahou · 2012-06-28, 02:41

@bus accident ending #1: I believe it's in the real world because the dream world disappeared after the original LB crew started to vanish. And I don't really believe Kyousuke could keep it up by himself. They *were* strong enough to deal with reality and managed to get the heck out of the forest (barely in time).

@bus accident ending #2: I love happy ending more than anything else *glares at Air*. That being said, the only BS was the whole time travel thingy in order to cure Riki's sleep illness. Wasn't this the purpose of dream world 2 by Riki + Rin? Anyway, them saving the whole crew with power of friendship, miracle and bro-power was also fine with me.
(That's why I was perfectly fine with Clannad's miracle ending. Yes, they deserved that happy ending, no but's and if's

)

Balzac · 2012-06-28, 17:22

My interpretation is that by the end of Refrain's epilogue, they were determined to redo things through the process of creating a new world and being "born" anew into it. (refer to Riki's mini-chapter) Whether this means they're living in a dream world or that the two achieved the power of a god in that brief moment is not something I thought too deeply on. They earned their happy ending, so all is well (or is it?)

Randrak42 · 2012-06-28, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdeal000

Sorry for the late reply

1. Everything is inside kyosuke's head is a theory that has no more proof than rin and riki trapping themselves in a dream world where they saved everyone. It's just as much a posibility as any other...but I still don't believe it's true, it just sounds interesting.

It was one of the theories I heard when I first finished the game and it grew a bit in popularity since then. It gives it a bit of a bitter twist that some people like. I see the appeal in that kind of ending but I both don't like it and isn't the one I believe happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdeal000

2. Why would i want to live in a dream world? As seen in the game, that is a world with a limited future. You create that future, and with your limited imagination, you will create a world that's...i don't know, bland? Even if the dream world continues to exist like a real world, what's the point? People die, get over it. You are going to lose them sooner or later, you have to put up with it. Riki got all his troubles (narcolepsia and so on) because he could not accept his parent's death, right? Live, as long as you have a future in front of you, accept reality. You'll meet new people. I don't see that as a posibility in a dream world, where the main characters are only the people you know, and the rest are robots.

Ah well, as I always say...Opinions, everybody has one.
If I had to choose between having the only people I care about simply die and move on with my life
or
give them the chance to live and grow up with me in a pretty damn realistic (and now stable) dream world until they die of old age having had a fulfilled life, go back to the real world and de in the car crash...and then I move on with my life

Then I would pick the second, but that's just me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdeal000

3. About Kurugaya, do you really think so? She has shown in her ending that she has only a limited understanding over the dream world, and when she tried to take control, she broke it. Do you think that she would not try to get involved more in riki's growth if she would have more power (and knowldege). And in refrain she does not even apear, and at the end she suddenly makes a dream world? That's too far-fetched imo.

For the love of Raptor Jesus...I was joking about the second Kurugaya bit...and the first was (as I mentioned) my eternal Kurugaya fanboyism...just leave it be.

Randrak42 · 2012-06-29, 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdeal000

Looks like I annoyed you. Sorry about that

Not really, I wouldn't invoke the almighty Raptor Jesus name if I were serious.

commando · 2012-07-01, 00:26

I just got this VN. to those of you who have already finished it, how long did it take you to complete all the routes? I remember reading the Clannad VN and it took me hundreds of hours probably. (but well worth it)

not sure if I want to commit the same amount of time to a VN I learned from hype.

Randrak42 · 2012-07-01, 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando

I just got this VN. to those of you who have already finished it, how long did it take you to complete all the routes? I remember reading the Clannad VN and it took me hundreds of hours probably. (but well worth it)

not sure if I want to commit the same amount of time to a VN I learned from hype.

By the gods! If you think Clannad was well worth the hundreds of hours then Little Busters would be well worth twice that.

I played both and though I haven't played Clannad in a while I'd say LB is about the same if not SLIGHTLY shorter. The meat of the game is in the Common route and like Bigdeal said, once you've played through the common route you can skip it. My advice is the first playthrough of the common route do everything, baseball minigame training, battle ranking and all that. After you've played through the common route and finished your first heroine route (also advice you to leave both Rin routes for last so you can do them in one go) then don't do the baseball training and battles, just use the Skip function in the UI as it will skip all READ messages and not the unread ones. This is important because the common route suffers a few changes as you finish heroine routes.

Balzac · 2012-07-01, 15:58

I would recommend only turning on baseball during your last runthroughs. The bump in stats to Riki and Rin (more important to Rin), and the assured addition of Kengo would make a swifter victory in the game, earning a nice mini-epilogue for you.

Battles, on the other hand... Unless you want Rin to beat the mysterious animal or for Riki to inherit the um... mask, then you can safely ignore those. But the parts can be really funny sometimes (Komari beating Masato? What the?)

Randrak42 · 2012-07-01, 17:25

Ah yes I forgot. Try to atleast win the baseball match, have Rin beat all 3 animals and have Riki win the mask. This is easier after you've completed the game since their stats will be top notch by then.

I do love it when something random happens and the most unlikely one wins the battle. Like Kuu beating Kyousuke or Haruka beating Anego...
But when Mio gets her future super high tech sci-FY weapons she stops being an unlikely winner.

Balzac · 2012-07-01, 20:08

In fact, I think it's impossible to win the baseball match Kengo-less and with a weak Rin without some sheer luck. Even if you have Rin unlock all pitches, her stats would still let a majority of the club captains at least hit, if not an outright homerun.

(Note that this is just from play experience. Some other people might have discovered the exact connection between stats and baseball performance.)

Randrak42 · 2012-07-01, 20:20

Ah, a friend of mine tried winning the Baseball match in a clean, first playthrough of the game and it took him over 50 tries. Then suddenly one stroke of luck and he won it. I saw it...he was so overjoyed while I kept face/palming...

commando · 2012-07-01, 22:34

Quote:

But one thing I don't understand...what the heck does "a VN I learned from hype" mean?

well, I watch a lot of animes because people on the forums talk about them a lot. (as they were airing or afterward) a lot of people were talking about how much they wanted to see Little Busters as an anime, and it's also developed by Key, so I thought I would give it a read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randrak42

By the gods! If you think Clannad was well worth the hundreds of hours then Little Busters would be well worth twice that.

an anime comparable to Clannad?! I'll definitely read it through now.

Randrak42 · 2012-07-01, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando

an anime comparable to Clannad?! I'll definitely read it through now.

Well the anime won't be out for a while.
I don't like the compare anime with VNs but in my opinion Little Busters VN is much better than Clannad VN. I played both and while I loved Clannad to death, I enjoyed Little Busters a whole lot more, it left a bigger mark on me than any other VN to date and is one of only three VNs that I have multiple playthroughs of.

bahamut zero · 2012-07-02, 01:18

I think you shouldn't compare Little Busters to Clannad too much or else you might end up dissappointed :/

2012-06-21, 21:28	Link #866
Xacual Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	Well you can always believe that all they managed to do was create a new dream world in the end that was only more stable than Kyousuke's was that let them re do the rescue and everything. That theory is perfectly justified, though i prefer the idea of the happy ending. __________________ I was influenced by a certain group overflowing with madness and started trying to write a story. Please give it a try. Crashed into Fantasy

2012-06-28, 02:41	Link #868
Mahou ダメ人 - 人間失格 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Germany Age: 37	@bus accident ending #1: I believe it's in the real world because the dream world disappeared after the original LB crew started to vanish. And I don't really believe Kyousuke could keep it up by himself. They were strong enough to deal with reality and managed to get the heck out of the forest (barely in time). @bus accident ending #2: I love happy ending more than anything else glares at Air. That being said, the only BS was the whole time travel thingy in order to cure Riki's sleep illness. Wasn't this the purpose of dream world 2 by Riki + Rin? Anyway, them saving the whole crew with power of friendship, miracle and bro-power was also fine with me. (That's why I was perfectly fine with Clannad's miracle ending. Yes, they deserved that happy ending, no but's and if's ) __________________ Visual Novel Addict

2012-06-28, 17:22	Link #869
Balzac Assistant Professor Join Date: Jul 2011 Age: 48	My interpretation is that by the end of Refrain's epilogue, they were determined to redo things through the process of creating a new world and being "born" anew into it. (refer to Riki's mini-chapter) Whether this means they're living in a dream world or that the two achieved the power of a god in that brief moment is not something I thought too deeply on. They earned their happy ending, so all is well (or is it?) __________________ Within each of us a thousand worlds

2012-07-01, 15:58	Link #874
Balzac Assistant Professor Join Date: Jul 2011 Age: 48	I would recommend only turning on baseball during your last runthroughs. The bump in stats to Riki and Rin (more important to Rin), and the assured addition of Kengo would make a swifter victory in the game, earning a nice mini-epilogue for you. Battles, on the other hand... Unless you want Rin to beat the mysterious animal or for Riki to inherit the um... mask, then you can safely ignore those. But the parts can be really funny sometimes (Komari beating Masato? What the?) __________________ Within each of us a thousand worlds

2012-07-01, 20:08	Link #876
Balzac Assistant Professor Join Date: Jul 2011 Age: 48	In fact, I think it's impossible to win the baseball match Kengo-less and with a weak Rin without some sheer luck. Even if you have Rin unlock all pitches, her stats would still let a majority of the club captains at least hit, if not an outright homerun. (Note that this is just from play experience. Some other people might have discovered the exact connection between stats and baseball performance.) __________________ Within each of us a thousand worlds

2012-06-21, 19:38	Link #863
Linkark07 Yokoso Gypsy Join Date: Aug 2009	Well, you could always think that the story ended with Rin and Riki only. I believe that Key wants to give the ideal ending for everyone who plays their games. I gotta admit I have only played Clanand and Little Busters (still waiting for Rewrite english patch) but on both games you have different endings. For people who like bittersweet endings you can always think that the story ends when the bad thing happens but if you hate that kind of endings and want the happy one you can accept the miracle and get your happy ending.

2012-06-21, 20:28	Link #865
Linkark07 Yokoso Gypsy Join Date: Aug 2009	Open ending I suppose. It is up to the reader's imagination to see how will Riki make Rin happy.

2012-07-01, 00:26	Link #872
commando Member Join Date: Dec 2009	I just got this VN. to those of you who have already finished it, how long did it take you to complete all the routes? I remember reading the Clannad VN and it took me hundreds of hours probably. (but well worth it) not sure if I want to commit the same amount of time to a VN I learned from hype.

2012-07-01, 17:25	Link #875
Randrak42 ANEGO Worshiper Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.	Ah yes I forgot. Try to atleast win the baseball match, have Rin beat all 3 animals and have Riki win the mask. This is easier after you've completed the game since their stats will be top notch by then. I do love it when something random happens and the most unlikely one wins the battle. Like Kuu beating Kyousuke or Haruka beating Anego... But when Mio gets her future super high tech sci-FY weapons she stops being an unlikely winner.

2012-07-01, 20:20	Link #877
Randrak42 ANEGO Worshiper Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.	Ah, a friend of mine tried winning the Baseball match in a clean, first playthrough of the game and it took him over 50 tries. Then suddenly one stroke of luck and he won it. I saw it...he was so overjoyed while I kept face/palming...

2012-07-02, 01:18	Link #880
bahamut zero miragecoordinator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Right there	I think you shouldn't compare Little Busters to Clannad too much or else you might end up dissappointed :/ __________________ Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.