2009-05-26, 22:56 | Link #101 | |
Good-Natured Asshole.
Join Date: May 2007
Age: 34
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That's when we're utterly screwed. |
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2009-05-26, 23:09 | Link #102 | |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
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btw, I find it interesting that right off the bat you used the word "cult" to define FLG. Seems like an odd choice. |
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2009-05-26, 23:32 | Link #103 |
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Personally, I don't see the FLG as a cult or a religion. I always thought that the whole religious concept of theirs is merely a disguise for underground activities but only problem is their recruit system in which they take anybody implying any movements they pull off will most likely be known throughout the world before they actually make a move as the fact that China has set up a web of agents throughout the world in which they have people placed in every layer of a society in most nations. China's goal is to dominate the world, not to fight some non-profit organization, bear in mind. However, the FLG had rose to oppose them but that doesn't really matter as that the FLG is failure from the core to begin with. It is merely taking the form of a religious gathering that also possesses political objectives which may or may not be intentional as that all religions are associated with politics since ancient times.
The reason why the FLG has no guts to pull off something big is that if they do attempt to do so, agents who voluntarily joined the FLG would most likely report it to their superiors and the information will be carried up the levels of their government and that they will quickly denounced the non-profit organization as a terrorist organization, then receive a nod from the United States who are currently promoting an anti-terrorism movement to blacklist the FLG which in turn points out that the FLG will get legally hunted down across the world by multiple nations. On the contrary, if the FLG continue to idle and do nothing, they are being fools at the same time as that their objectives to join the non-profit organization is to take part in a mass movement motivated by political objectives and the choice to do nothing simply points out that they are joining the religious sector just to get themselves killed for no reason at all. Generally, the nature of the FLG followers is to die trying or to waiting to die. If this is the case, shouldn't they do something about it? If you die trying, you might not regret it as that you did your best and lost whereas if you die waiting, you will probably regret it as that it is the most foolish thing to do in the world during chaotic times. Perhaps, I might be getting some of these points wrong as that I have only done very little studying though my political science professor had occasionally brought up the issue of human rights and FLG, as well as Tibet during lectures. I am not very interested in the topic but it can't be helped.. |
2009-05-27, 00:16 | Link #104 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/m...nterview1.html Quote:
But there's no denying its potentially mind-warping doctrines, and given the example of Taiping, I'm not sure I'd trust someone like Li Hongzhi to lead China's next revolution. |
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2009-05-27, 01:08 | Link #105 | |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 31
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If you want to say that, then I guess that Christianity is a cult as well, because they have a lot of whacky stuff in the Bible as well.
But most Christians do not take it seriously or literally. Falun Gong is the same. The aliens are by no means a major (or significant in any way) component of the belief, and the idea that there are aliens (given the size of the universe) is not completely inconceivable either. In addition, levitation and other powers are a common theme in ancient Chinese folklore and mythology, and like the aliens, they are not of much significance to the belief or core principles, which, btw, if you know anything about FLG, is Truth, Compassion and Tolerance. These principles are brought up many, many times more than the aliens or levitation, and it is these principles (as well as the cultivation/meditation) that is central to the doctrine. If FLG was like that group that was all about how "people had to join the aliens by committing suicide with special pills," then it'd be different. But the truth is what I have just described. There is nothing or at least very little that is cultish or abnormal about FLG, unless you're one of those antireligious people who thinks all religions are cults. There are potentially mind-warping doctrines in just about everything, even Communism, which was supposed to be the scientifically-derived economic/politically theory, and look what happened: More people died from it than any religion, and in just 100 years. Like I said in my essay post, FLG is not so much leading the revolution as it is fueling it from behind as a side effect. And the intent is not to gain political power as it is to spread the ideas of FLG. FLG does not want to take power and become the official law of China or anything. It just wants the CCP gone so that it can do what it was before. It is again extremely important to keep in mind that the methods used by FLG are totally nonviolent, and that their reaction is natural (amazing even, that they did not resort to violence) considering what was done to them. Falun Gong is certainly fundamentally different from, say the various Communist Revolutions (which were often unprovoked seizures f power and involved lost of blood), or even the Taiping Rebellion which you brought up, which instantly started a civil war off the bat. Quote:
If you read what I had explained, the form of opposition that Falun Gong has going on right now is the most effective, and the most humane. |
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2009-05-27, 01:31 | Link #106 | |||
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Given some of the stuff FLG is associated with, I personally don't want to see that. You have to understand the power of mass movements in China. Communism in China was able to turn people against their own parents and teachers. I shiver at the thought of what a religion like FLG could do if preached to uneducated peasants and with the backing of the new government. Honestly, stuff like this: Quote:
In short, what makes you think that FLG, with its inherent craziness, wouldn't have become the new Communism, if it managed to overthrow the CCP? I understand protecting people's right to believe what they want, and the need for dissidence and resistance against CCP oppression, but do you really think that a quasi-religion like FLG is the right kind of movement to lead the revolution? |
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2009-05-27, 06:02 | Link #107 |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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If any of you read about the Warring States or the pugilist world in ancient China, you would probably know that politics and semi-religious ideologies are often the centre of their conflicts.
I would say that Falungong and CCP is just a modern version of such. Most importantly, I think such an issue would boil down the simple human behaviour of pride, not wanting to admit their flaws in the systems they created. It simply stretched beyond the limit to give such a tension (pun unintended).
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2009-05-27, 06:03 | Link #108 | |
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Join Date: May 2007
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On the other hand, North Korea is a bad apple. The prospect that the North possessing both Nukes and the means to deliver them implies that Beijing itself is in the attack range. No one in Beijing can be happy about that. Moreover, one more factor that China needs to consider is the reaction from Japan. An armed Japan would not be in the interest of China at all. That's the place that China found itself in right now: between rocks and a hard place(鸡肋?). There is no easy way out of it. Personally, I think it is in the long term interest of China to let go of the North, its government in the least. It is a failed cause after all. But that would involves dramatic changes. But in the political world, status quo beats dramatic changes every time, think Britain or France at the eve of world war II, for example. Do the South Koreans want to see the North fall? My bet is they don't. On the topic of FLG, it is a cult built like a Pyramid scheme. Personally, I think it is kind of cancer of the society. It was a pity that so many people falls for it. I can still recall one advertising billboard they put up in my highschool years ago. My first reaction was this enormous urge to buy a bottle of ink to pour all over it. What is this thing doing in my school, the "holy ground" of science and education? The ridiculous claims it held was one of my biggest WTF moment of that time. I can't imagine how Chinese people or the society can benefit from spreading such idiocy. The fact FLG was dealt heavy handed does not negate the truth that it has to be dealt with. About separating China, I am wondering whether there are text book out there teaching people such things. This is not the first time that I read this on this forum and every time I do, I am wondering what crack people were on. Ever tried to imagine that modern US separates into a few smaller nations? I don't think there is any reason for that to happen. Except the west part with the well known problems, the rest of China is pretty much integrated as a whole. Without the coal from northern China, most big cities won't have enough electricity to function. Part of the supply of eggs in the markets of Guangdong comes from Hebei(the province around Beijing). Such list could go on and on. Yes there are imbalances between the south and north, between the east and the west. But as far as I see, the threat to the separation of the nation posed by such imbalance is minimal in the short term. People are free to imagine whatever they want to, but it shows how much they are blinded by their own interest and how little they actually know about the nation. Last, about the party, does it censor the internet? Yes. Human rights? Yes. Can you find a better solution? I don't know. People will suggest democracy, but what does it take to implement? How long does it takes? Can it solve the problems that China faces, like corruption? I am pretty sure Indian is pretty corrupted too. Democracy will be great if it works in China. But between 8% GDP growth every year and making China into the world's biggest experiment on democracy, I'll choose growth, well aware that it may not last for ever(at least I know what I am dealing with). Your may argue that democracy might bring better growth. But that's all speculation and we don't know what twisted or smooth path one must tread to get there. It is the status quo. Anyone with some common sense see the glaring problems with the current situation, but an unpredictable path and dramatic change is fearful as well. It like global warming, everyone knows that it probably will be a bad end if it goes on. But do you want to give up all your modern convenience? Even if you do occasionally, does it off set a new coal power plant in China or India? The Chinese problem is not a simple one and it demands pragmatic approaches. It is impractical and irresponsible to look everything from a ideological point of view and say why don't you do this, why don't you do that? If I am a newly graduated college student in China, will religion freedom help me to find a job? There is no easy answers, there is no short term solutions. Maybe gradual reforms will help, or maybe not. I don't know.
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Last edited by Tom Bombadil; 2009-05-27 at 06:21. |
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2009-05-27, 10:35 | Link #109 |
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
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China can be separated, but eventually all the separated states will be united again....even since 200 BC, when china got united after long time separation, the map of china is in every chinese blood already...then when china got separated (it happened a few times), almost every land lord's dream was to complete the puzzle, which is to unite china once again..of course, some land lords just tried to keep his territory forever, but every history textbook in chinese described those land lords as not aggressive enough or missed the chance to unite china etc..plus, chinese share the same language...
So therefore, every chinese has the map of china in his/her mind, and separation won't last forever...of course, tibet maybe a different story, because she is a fairly new region to China (I mean compared to 200 BC) And about North Korea...I agree with Tom Bombadil's viewpoint...Normally China and Russia are keen to have a buffer zone...maybe those two big countries emphasize the control of land more...even tho sometimes I have to question whether North Korea's soldiers have lost the moral already...I mean, I know North Korea spent lot of money to keep the military, but with the economic condition in North Korea, I sometimes wonder if North Korea has enough money to keep the army...and everyone knows South Korea is a lot better in economy...when war starts (I hope not), North Korea's soldiers may not be as tough as we thought they would be
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2009-05-27, 13:31 | Link #110 | |||
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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The principles of the FLG is like unrealistic one-sided ideals as that nobody else cares about how peaceful they want to be, otherwise needless bloodshed wouldn't be occurring. You can almost compare China with North Korea and FLG as South Korea. One seeks peace, another seeks war. One seeks co-existence, another seeks the destruction of the other.
In the end, the ones on the sidelines sees one as aggressive and the other as cowardly. The aggressive ones obviously have their reasons as to why they are doing so, whereas the cowards on the other hand don't even deserve any sympathy as that their suffering is accepted by their own hands as that they do have capability to fight back, yet they chose not to. It is their very own decision to live that way and thus, it is best to leave them alone. Quote:
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What good are principles to you if you are just getting yourselves killed and recruiting more people to die with you? No clear objectives, total obscurity. I know the FLG is like a bunch of pacifists but you know.. Pretty words are not going to change anything. No matter how righteous and correct you are, as long as you remain as Gandhi or one of those silent corpses, nothing will change. In fact, it will turn out to be the opposite as that propaganda will be playing a leading role in reshaping the truth of things into a pure distortion. Thoughts and beliefs start to flow internationally: "The FLG is a cult", "The FLG are useless", "The FLG are bad people who do bad things.", "The FLG is evil.", etc.. In the end, arresting, detaining, beating, and slaughtering of the FLG becomes legitimate and legal as that the world gets deceived into believing a distorted view, pure propaganda and they will no longer be able to tell good from evil, right from wrong, truth from lies. Perhaps, you would think, "we don't care" but when you and your people are getting hunted down and slaughtered, will you feel the same way? Let's say, you won't have any regrets but will the ones who foolishing joined the FLG feel the same way? I don't think so.. More over.. The world will not care much of you people getting slaughtered as that they are already deceived into seeing evil as good, wrong as right, and lies as truth and facts. "China is doing the right thing, you don't think so? You must be severely misinformed as that you do not seem to understand facts from fiction." You know, these sort of strategies and tactics go all the way back to ancient times; its nothing new. And there is nothing to be surprised about either as that things hadn't just turned this way as that it had been this way for quite awhile already. |
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2009-05-27, 19:29 | Link #111 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I recalled the sequence of the Tiananmen Square incident, from the initial protests, to the seeming compliance from the CCP, to the reluctance of the local PLA units to act, to the eventual crackdown and massacre very vividly. It's a very sad moment in Chinese history, and it's an even that colored my views towards the PRC very negatively for over a decade. On reflection, the outcome was all but assured of being a bloody one given the pressures that the central government was in, and their options at the time. Moreover, it's an event that cannot be separated from the events in the rest of the world at the time.
1989 was a year of great upheaval - in Poland, we saw the Solidarity movement and Lech Walensa start to take hold of the people's imagination; in Germany, the Communist party was losing their grip on power, and the Berlin Wall would topple later that year; and even in the mighty USSR itself, the government was engaged in economic and political reforms to little effect. The entire world could see that what once had been a hallmark of stability and power was starting to crumble, and everyone was wondering which Communist country would be the next to weaken. The Chinese leaders weren't blind to this, so they were certain to be sensitive to any events that promised to sow dissent and weakened their power. A spontaneous popular movement like the student protests and the subsequent support from much of Beijing could easily have developed into a much more serious political movement; one that could have sent China onto the same path as the their peers in Europe. There was little chance that the central government could tolerate that, and so they cracked down on what was a peaceful protest. This does not excuse their actions of course, but I think that it helps a lot to see the whys of what happened. As for the overall effect, the Tiananmen Square incident has a fair number of ramifications; not all of these being the obvious ones. The most obvious to the West is that all speech, record, even thought of those events has been suppressed by the CCP. There's two main reasons for this: the first is that it's an ugly blot to have to be responsible for, and Communist governments are well known for covering up ugly blots. The less obvious is to preserve the legacy of the all-but-sainted Deng Xiaoping. While Deng Xiaoping avoided a lot of the cult of personality of Mao, he is still held as one of the greatest, if not greatest, leader of Communist China. He was responsible for many of the innovations that brought wealth and prosperity to the country, and so any of his glory would also reflect well on the Party itself and on its leadership. Likewise, any smears that are attributed to Deng will also reflect badly. That's probably why, in one of the more momentous decisions to be made - whether to crack down, it was poor Li Peng who was set up to be the fall guy when it's obvious that it had to be the leader himself who made the actual call. The lesser well-known ramifications are more to China's credit. The central government has certainly not forgotten about the Tiananmen Square incident; and indeed, they have learned a great deal from it. They've opened up liberties in all manner of public life - with the pointed exception of politics and large social gatherings. In everything else, the well being (or more accurately, the perceived well being) of the populace was paramount, and the leaders had to be respected, and be good enough to be respected. That's why there's currently things like a big push to somewhat equalize the prosperity that's been mostly evident on the coastal provinces. where once something like the Great Leap Forward was espoused on ideological grounds, with little care placed on how people suffered from it, there's now plenty of infrastructural work done in the hinterlands where there is yet to be much justification in terms of recouping costs. A lot of this kind of activity is precisely to deter the kind of popular sentiment that drove the students to Tiananmen Square to begin with. End result: the China of now is a very different country from the China of 1989. The amount of wealth visible on the coasts would have been undreamt of back then, as with perhaps the amount of non-political freedoms. Also, it's probably a lot more unified and stable than it has been in centuries, and the central government is very popular. No, China isn't exactly paradise on earth, but it's a lot better now than it was 20 years ago; and it's immeasurably better now than it was 30 or 40 years ago. Oh, by the way, anyone who thinks that there's going to be some spontaneous uprising in China is being hopelessly naive. Unless things change to the degree where current conditions no longer apply at all, we're more likely to see a civil war in the U.S. first (and that's only about as likely as the Easter Bunny turning out to be real ). Quote:
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As for the Falun Gong stuff, if you really want to go in depth discussing it, I suggest that you take it to a new thread.
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2009-05-27, 20:37 | Link #112 | |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 31
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EDIT: Sorry, I started writing this before 4tran made his entrance. I too think we have gone off-topic, as if you read my post you will see I have written a paragraph on it in closing.
Okay, it seems there are the following major viewpoints on this topic (FLG in particular) we are discussing so far, that I can discern: Lathdrinor (1): You seem to maintain that FLG is a group, that while having originally semi-cultish philosophies, is largely normalized by the vast majority of its followers. However, it is dangerous because it could easily transform into a very strict, structured organization with harmful intent. Tom Bombadil (2): FLG is a cancer of society with a pyramid structure. You say it has "ridiculous claims" and must be dealt with. Shadow Minato (3): FLG is a group that can't get anything done, because it uses the wrong method to oppose the persecution. In fact, it can be seen as bad because it makes other feel like they must take these methods as well even though they do not work. 1. So what are you suggesting? It seems that you dislike FLG for existing in the first place. What should FLG do, considering that it is being persecuted? Currently it is doing what I have been describing for the last few posts; just protesting in the West and covertly spreading its thoughts and POV throughout China. What's a better option? Just sit and wait to be killed or jailed? Not practice FLG anymore? Organize an active and structured opposition/rebellion? Keep in mind that the Taiping Rebellion was not at first an active rebellion, but an armed group that fought local warlords and gained influence in the area. It was when the Imperial Army started attacking it that it chose a guerrilla stance, and from there became ever-more militarized. FLG didn't start out violent in 1992, and it isn't violent now, 17 years later. This is a pretty big difference from the Taiping, I'd say. Could it become violent? Maybe, since tehre is always the possibility. But it hasn't become violent , and there's not even any sign of factions/denominations, or any noticeable schisms taking place within the group, so I'd say it's pretty stable. 2. I already explained that FLG has almost no structure, and it's pretty well established here that's it's not a cult. I don't really think I can say any more unless you're going to explain your opinions more clearly. How is it a cancer? What is ridiculous about it? What did the billboard say, for instance? It seems strange that you take a lot of thought on what you say about other issues like North Korea and other aspects of China's future, but when it comes to FLG all you have to offer is unexplained invective. 3. So it seems what you're tying to get at here is that FLG should carry out a much more active resistance, since they have an overwhelming disadvantage anyhow. You said: Quote:
The principles are everything. The reason why I support FLG so much is because I believe it is amazing that, considering who they are (a group of people, lol) and what situation they are under, have not betrayed their principles. You say principles are useless. I say they are most powerful. To give an example, my mother frequently talks to her Chinese friends and family about this matter. At first, the only Chinese person I had heard of who actually supported FLG was my mother. Everyone else either totally bought into mainland China's propaganda or didn't think it was of much consequence. In a few years, all but maybe one or two of these people now are on the "I agree" side of the issue. My mother is a believer of FLG. Because she does not have a full time job, she works on projects which often include protesting the CCP's actions and such, with some other FLG practitioners in the area. Because of my relationship to her, I know a lot about the beliefs and workings of FLG, and therefore I am sure of many of the things I say here (unlike some of my political speculations). Having known many people involved with FLG and seen many of the results of the actions it's followers take, I have no doubts that it (the methods) is superior to the normal methods used by other movements, such as military revolt, overt political opposition, or just sitting there and doing nothing. Shadow, Minato, you said that nothing would change if FLG acted like Gandhi or a still corpse. Once again, I want to reiterate that that is not true at all. Just by talking directly to individuals, FLG has achieved a lot in the way of getting Chinese people to become more aware. This has not ushered in any sudden change or major action (after all, FLG is still banned), but it has thawed, at least a little bit, the attitude towards FLG in the minds of Chinese. Like I said before, the very reason why FLG is different from other groups is because it does not seek any intermediate process (such as forming a political party or militia), like the Communist movements did, for example, to get to its final and simple goal. FLG directly focuses on the minds of individual people, and I believe, that as more and more individuals come to see things more from FLG's POV, the larger societal developments will follow suit. I already explained, that if China is to collapse ( which I think it is bound to), it is better that FLG is doing what it is right now, rather than messing around with becoming a militia or trying to form a political party. From FLG's perspective, doing those things would not coincide with FLG's goals and would just corrupt the original ideas of the group, and from a 3rd-party view, ones definitely does not want FLG to become military or political, as like Lathdrinor feared, bad things do often come of religions being misguided to become (or start out) military or political. With regards to the thread as a whole, I would like to point out that we have gone off-topic by focusing on FLG. Therefore I will not say much more on the issue, as I feel I have already made my point and any more will something I cannot afford considering my other obligations. If there is something that is truly bothering you about my post please PM me about it; I do niot feel like drailing the thread any more. |
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2009-05-27, 21:38 | Link #113 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
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@4Tran
I cannot quite agree with your view..yes I understand that at that time many communist countries were about to crumble, but anytime it's just wrong to use tanks and soldiers from other provinces to slaughter your own citizens... And after 1989, yes the economic was booming afterward, but the freedom was not increasing at all, and in fact, ppl actually enjoyed less freedom then before. Take the china's major earthquake last year as an example, many many schools were collapsed because they were illegally built (like the building was not as strong as it should have been)...families of victims cannot make their cases heard in central china government, because local government blocked their path to the capital...local government beat those ppl up, locked them up somewhere else so they would not be able to present their cases to higher level. And when someone found out the proof that those buildings were not properly built, that guy got arrested for "stealing country's top level secret" Now would those ridiculous acts from local government behave the same way before 1989...I don't know...but what I know is, if central government allows more ppl to come out and say no to those corrupted businessmen and government's officials, then no one would dare to those things I described in above so explicitly. Unfortunately, this is exactly what the central government from china has been oppressing since 1989...I give out more cash, bring out more propaganda of twisted patriotism, so I will not be overthrown... If ppl accepted that proposal, sure their quality of life may become a little bit better, but you never know when you will provoke the corrupted government and businessmen, and they can take away your property, even your life in any given day. As a citizen, it's his right to ask for both economic stability and freedom at the same time. The government simply cannot use economic stability to exchange for freedom from citizens.
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2009-05-27, 23:02 | Link #114 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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LeoXiao: my only point is that I don't think FLG's founder is the right kind of person to lead a mass movement in China. Many of his ideas seem, unfortunately, quite high in the crack factor and that makes him a potentially dangerous influence on whichever direction the movement takes. If China discards its current ideology only to buy into a new one about modern science being aliens' instrument for controlling humans, it'd be like the saying, "out of the frying pan and into the fire."
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2009-05-28, 00:08 | Link #115 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Please also note that I'm not trying to paint the crack down as some sort of "regrettable action, but it had to be done". In fact, even the central government (maybe more pointedly, Deng Xiaoping) knew that it was an evil action, but they felt that they were risking too much if they let it continue. Was it a legitimate fear? I really don't think so - the students didn't really have any wish to overthrow the government even though they espoused a great deal of appreciation for democratic reform. If I remember correctly, their biggest demand was for some form of free press. What probably drove the paranoia level was that the students also received a lot of support from the residents of Beijing, and sympathy from the local PLA soldiers. Nothing can be more threatening to an authoritarian government than a popular movement which the Army supports more than the government itself, and so they acted. It is indeed an evil deed, and it's one which should probably be put on Deng Xiaoping's account eventually. Still, it was an act of calculated evil, and done for entirely rational reasons (even if the premises they were based on were false); not some kind of evil deed done as some cartoon villains would perform. Quote:
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2009-05-28, 00:10 | Link #116 | |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 31
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2009-05-28, 02:44 | Link #117 | |||||
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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I do agree that it is a very sad moment in the history of China, like the Opium War. China is wracked by internal strife throughout 5000 years of history but these are the ones that probably took the cake and changed what China (and Chinese) are for the years to come. Quote:
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Such still exists today. That is why most of us studying here don't engage in Current Affairs in class. Losing face doesn't really matter, neither does apology. It is all about the importance of learning from mistakes, Quote:
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I wouldn't want an uprising at this time. Right now China is the base of the world economy with the Western economic pillars collapsing, any "social reform" could probably shallow our pockets for a few years more than it already should.
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2009-05-28, 05:03 | Link #118 | ||
Bearly Legal
Join Date: Jun 2004
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While it's absurd at times, it does force a person to be responsible for their action since the consequences isn't limited to just one person. A good example is the corporate management difference between Japanese company and US company where generally there are more Japanese top managements willing to take on personal responsibilities for the company's situation than their US counterpart. A nation/organization reputation though is very important when it comes to influencing other others. Someone with a good record is more likely to get their policy across to others than someone who doesn't. Although for CCP, their method of cover up and operation are still outdated. Government propaganda nowdays is more about information manipulation than information control. The more they tried to censor information, the more suspicious people become. Quote:
The best course for China right now imo, is to further strengthen it's central government control on other province and impose/enforce their national policy stringently. A lot of corruptions issues and industrial mishaps these days are due to their poor control on other ministry/provincial government and allowed them to cover up all these error for so long until it blew up on international level. If China couldnt even exercise it's policy with a communist government, there's less chance of them doing it in a democratic government.
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2009-05-28, 07:15 | Link #119 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Imperial Manila, Philippines
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Lol man, they're as communist as I'm a muffin. The best way to usurp them is a major economic catastrophe they couldn't handle. Of course, the democrats need to pander towards the interests of the Westerners who invested a lot. Show them you'll guarantee the existence of their eggs, they'll support you in no time.
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2009-05-28, 08:02 | Link #120 |
Observer/Bookman wannabe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
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The CCP are smart in this aspect, as they subscribe to "old wealth": manufacturing, infrastructure building, that kind of stuff, unlike the West, which spent the last 5 years creating money out of thin air, and have little lasting value.
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