Spice and Wolf - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[suguru]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

I find it interesting that Chloe was talking to Lawrence about a good scheme only shortly before all this surfaced

That's a good point, I'd forgotten about that...I guess if it does turn out Chloe's the mystery person at the end of ep 4 it shouldn't be a surprise...

This is just one of those episodes that makes me glad to be an anime fan--Horo's vulnerable side just makes her even more endearing, and Lawrence's reaction gives him bonus points too.

That whole scene with Lawrence and Horo at the inn, where he gives her the drawing of his dream store to use as a Kleenex, was just really well done--it really felt like a big milestone in their relationship. I can just picture ten years later, Lawrence sitting around the fireplace with a little boy and little girl with wolf ears, and him telling them about handing Horo the picture of the store and saying that was the moment, even though he didn't really realize it at the time, that he decided to spend the rest of his life with their mom. And then he adds some wisecrack about how he didn't realize how truly frightening she could be back then, and Horo smacks him in the back of the head and tells him to go get more firewood from the backyard

[Vexx]

aye, I'm trying very hard not to spoil anything and try to label *speculation* clearly as such. If you see something you think is a spoiler that should be tagged - report it immediately so at least the damage can be contained.

[FlareKnight]

Know it must be tough to not spoil things. Usually I'm in the dark so it's pretty easy to not say anything. Though one must be vigilant and not just click a spoiler tag on reflex before taking note about what is in there. Since you just know that once you read it you'll never forget no matter how much you try (which of course makes you think about what your trying not to think about....).

A very nice scene of the future suguru. Just leaves you with a smile thinking about it.

[tebahpla]

Originally Posted by suguru

That's a good point, I'd forgotten about that...I guess if it does turn out Chloe's the mystery person at the end of ep 4 it shouldn't be a surprise...

This is just one of those episodes that makes me glad to be an anime fan--Horo's vulnerable side just makes her even more endearing, and Lawrence's reaction gives him bonus points too.

That whole scene with Lawrence and Horo at the inn, where he gives her the drawing of his dream store to use as a Kleenex, was just really well done--it really felt like a big milestone in their relationship. I can just picture ten years later, Lawrence sitting around the fireplace with a little boy and little girl with wolf ears, and him telling them about handing Horo the picture of the store and saying that was the moment, even though he didn't really realize it at the time, that he decided to spend the rest of his life with their mom. And then he adds some wisecrack about how he didn't realize how truly frightening she could be back then, and Horo smacks him in the back of the head and tells him to go get more firewood from the backyard

either lawrence or horo would end up gainax'd by the end of the series. this wouldnt end awesome if that isnt happening. bittersweet ends are very bitter. so i don't think 10 years later would be imaginable i can just see it coming

[Nenkitsune]

Originally Posted by mikesince83

Overall and excellent mix of romance and action in this one. It was entertaining to watch Lawrence fumbling his way over to bed. Initially I expected him to 'become disoriented' and end up going to her bed, but the actual result speaks volumes for Horo.

totally agreed. When he was fumbling around (like i tend to do..i've even fallen over a table....)
i thought he'd end up with horo in HER bed, not end up in HIS bed with her lol.

Still, with every episode I watch I'm always amazed at how beautiful this show looks. the animation quality is always so pretty. whenever i look at shows, i see images that are decent, and ones that look great as stills, however, every frame of spice and wolf is so beautifully done that any one frame would make a great still.

I'm really interested to see who showed up at the end of the episode.

[grey_moon]

Brilliant series...

My thoughts on the hooded person tie in

Spoiler:

If it is Chole could Horo have been her cunning business deal? Could she have found a way to capture Horo and force her to do what she wanted, hence Horo escaping on the wagon?

Noooooooooo cliff hanger, I am in despair!

[vivacioussky]

Is it just me or was Horo actually, really *leading* Lawrence on in the first half?!o_O

I do wonder who the person is at the end. A new character I reckon. Somewhere, I read it would be Chloe, but where did she get the money to hire the guys?

Seeing the ep 5 title, I probably reckon it would be a new character... maybe from Horo's past... or maybe not. Her ending line of "You!"could also be "Who the hell are you?!"

Still though, so far so good. And I personally feel Lawrence shouldnt have told Glasses about Horo's true identity.

[maverickudo]

horo x law got major COCKBLOCKED lol

heck it wasn't bad enough she was naked for 2 straight episodes...geez..

dude just want his store and some mutton -nudge nudge-

i like the show really. horo hands down coolest female character to satiate our hungry otakuness after a lot of finished season animes were over. new era i suppose. vote HORO

-yeah who read the manga for spice x wolf? is the hooded person Chloe?

[Anh_Minh]

At a guess, from the "You!", it should be either Chloe or one of Horo's packmates. From next ep's title, I'd guess Chloe.

[Sinestra]

Im posting a little later than usual because i wanted to watch the episode a couple of times and gather my thoughts. First let me say I gave episode 4 a perfect 10 its been a while since i did that

One of the best written and entertaining episodes i have watch in a while. The interaction between Horo and Lawrence are done so perfectly i dont feel like im watching animated characters. Their distinct personalties as well as their way of speaking with one another is just powering and for me drives the bases of Spice and Wolf.

Episode allowed us to see another side to Horo. The scene with her discussing how she does not want to be alone and her companions made shed a few tears. From the beginning we thought she was a god, which i found interesting because she sure does not act like one. It seem even Horo has a finite existence as well her companions. Ami Koshimizu has done a fantastic job bringing Horo's personality to life. Her range and emotion came pouring through as tears poured down Horo's face. That scene was especially powerful for me because of how it was described. Waking up and everyone you care about is gone and your alone. Being a Wolf a pack animal that must be a fate worse than death for Horo. You would think after 500 years she would have run into someone from her pack but it has not occurred. Also, this brings up the question of Horo's pack in general. whether her pack was just gifted with longevity and special powers or are their other packs who possess the same characteristics i hope we learn.

Lawrence once again show his many sides as well and a new one or should i say a more empowering one in his affection for Horo. I whole hearted believe that Lawrence cares for Horo in romantic sense. After traveling together, eating together, sharing experiences and sharing rooms it easy to see how it happened. I believe that it would take a special someone like Horo to make Lawrence fall for her. Watching how tender Lawrence was with her it was like they have been close for ages. His speech and mannerism were perfect for the scene and he comforted Horo very effectively. Seeing these vulnerable sides of the characters is what makes or breaks a series of this type for me. Especially with Horo its very easy to have been energetic and playful all the time but does she have the range and experience to portray all emotion. Although Lawrence was a bit clumsy the looks they showed each other were that of 2 people not only with mutual respect but 2 people who do care for one another. Lawrence got a level up from me for how he pulled Horo into his arms and hugged her. The scene later with them in the bed i believe the mood was there for Lawrence and his feeling compounded on top of one another and led to him doing what would come natural if we like someone. IMO Horo pulled him down purposely only to let him know the bad guys were outside i dont think there was anything sexual about it (at that time) that doesnt mean she was not feeling or thinking something else. After all she is Horo the wise and im sure it wasnt hard to notice Lawrences feelings. Plus it looks like Horo might had a relationship in the past with her first friend but we might be leaning to much into it he really could have just been her friend, but there might have been more to it. Hopefully later down the road Horo goes into more detail about him.

Horo's feelings for Lawrence become a little noticeable during the chase. Going back to the Inn scene Horo was upset since Lawrence said he wanted to open his own store if this deal paid off. Horo said "I cant make you come with me can I?" Horo could have very easily have found another travel companion or went alone. But she wanted to go with Lawrence and i think no other person would do besides Lawrence. Now back to the escape scene with them hiding in the corner . Horo's speech and mannerisms once again looked more romantic. With her head close to Lawrences chest and of course Lawrence pleading with her not go. Horo's last phrase was perfect and i took this seriously seeing how long she has lived, she said "I believe in you to come" thats not something you just say and you could tell in her voice that she meant it. Do i think what Horo feels is love no not at this point but there is some type of romantic feeling there and the same Lawrence.

I agree that the hooded person in episode 5 will either be Chole because it would be a great opportunity to introduce her as either a rival or the opposition. Also, she stated she had some really big deal she was in on and wanted Lawrence to come. Its seems quite the coincidence that she mentioned the deal and now we knee deep in a coin fraud operation. But, the theory on one of Horo's pack being there is good too it would be a nice surprise to see another wolf. Either option would lead to a nice development and set up the next 3 or so episodes and we could find out how they knew Horo was wolf but if the hood person in question is also a wolf it would make sense.

Now i await the rescue of Horo and to see if Lawrence has any GAR in his blood.

[Masanori Ota]

Originally Posted by maverickudo

-yeah who read the manga for spice x wolf? is the hooded person Chloe?

Chloe isn't in the manga or novels. She's an anime-only character.


Also, speculation (not spoilers) on what'll happen if Chloe is involved with this deal: she's get into an arguement with Lawrence and perhaps help Horo and Lawrence escape. There's got to be a reason Chloe is in the ED...

OH SHIT! In the ED Chloe is looking up into the sky while silver coins fall down the screen! Silver coins!

[Souten no Seigyoku]

Im confused as to whether theyre going The Inquisition route or the god-worship route in this anime. Is the church pro-Horo or anti-Horo? In episode 3 she speaks as if they worship her. In episode 4 the letter insinuates the church finding out about her would be a bad thing.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Church finding Horo would most probably be bad. Remember the town at the beginning of Episode 1? They weren't too pleased that Pasroe continued to practise a pagan ritual.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Souten no Seigyoku

Im confused as to whether theyre going The Inquisition route or the god-worship route in this anime. Is the church pro-Horo or anti-Horo? In episode 3 she speaks as if they worship her. In episode 4 the letter insinuates the church finding out about her would be a bad thing.

The Church is dominating the land and pushing the "old beliefs" aside. Horo is very definitely an "old belief" and people who follow the Church would have no sympathy for her. As Horo dances around the idea - *she* doesn't think of herself as a "god" but just someone who had a deal with the village she bound herself to. Nonetheless, the Church perceives *any* competition as "evil".

The people Horo refers to are the commoners who still think of her at all (either kindly or as an excuse for a festival).

So you have a conflict (whether or not one side wants it). If the Church got a hold of Horo the series would take an incredibly nasty turn.

The motives of her captors are still unclear at this point, but they've USED the Church as a threat to try and lure Lawrence in - apparently more interested in him than anything else. Lawrence is just lucky that the company he's aligned with isn't totally cold-hearted (just protecting their own interests).... at least "glasses guy" as people call him seems to sympathize enough to want to provide some advice

[Irenicus]

I just noticed something: the merchant who Horo conned did realize the trick later! Not only that, he realized it's not Lawrence, but her. He was smiling slightly and looking at her when he had a conversation with Lawrence again. She smiled back while hiding her eyes as always.

I guess he appreciated the cleverness much more than he felt miffed at being conned. Nice people, those merchants, as long as you don't get in the way of their profits.

Originally Posted by Masanori Ota

OH SHIT! In the ED Chloe is looking up into the sky while silver coins fall down the screen! Silver coins!

Nice catch!

I'm betting my imaginary Thoreni that this "You!" is totally Chloe. It just makes sense from too many perspectives: drama, plot, and ED. Now, the mystery remains (though not for novel and manga readers I suppose), who is the shepherd girl?

Originally Posted by Souten no Seigyoku

Im confused as to whether theyre going The Inquisition route or the god-worship route in this anime. Is the church pro-Horo or anti-Horo? In episode 3 she speaks as if they worship her. In episode 4 the letter insinuates the church finding out about her would be a bad thing.

The Church is about the One True God; i.e. competing nature spirits risk being burned at the stake. Villagers stuck in the old ways are considered as potential converts.

Kind of like the situation in Saxony in Charlemagne's time, or pagan Prussia-Lithuania during the era of the Teutonic knights.

They imply that the Church's extremist stance (or its growth in power and influence, for that matter) is something relatively new by Horo's standard, since she complained about it a few episodes back how times have changed.

[Vexx]

Money spent on the Horo-festival *could* have been given to the Church. People are easy to manipulate if there's no competing "world-views". Irenicus points out two of thousands of examples over the last few thousand years....

Historically, I suppose you could blame the Roman Empire for taking a minor pleasant little religion and reformulating it to meet the needs of the Empire.

[Southern Cross]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Historically, I suppose you could blame the Roman Empire for taking a minor pleasant little religion and reformulating it to meet the needs of the Empire.

Isn't that how Christmas "should" be celebrated in December according to Roman Catholics?


Watching the first episode about a week ago and watching this and the last two over the past few hours, I'm really enjoying this anime. Despite the "supernatural" element of the wolf, the views and issues brought out by the anime seem very earthly in essence, and it's quite refreshing having a nice, down-to-earth experience once in a while.

Needless to say, I did expect the company behind the little scheme to take some sort of action, but I did not expect them to go all out like that. One could say that manipulating the system of mercantilism is truly, serious business.

The situation looks pretty bad for Horo, though, since the church is also, coincidentally, serious business. I've never really enjoyed the extremist conservative side of religion, the worst possible method of judgment towards others. Anyway, I have a feeling that Horo's fate will pretty much come down to one of two things: a deus ex machina of epic proportion or Lawrence taking some sort of action on his own. Although odds seem to be pushing for the earlier, I would definitely admire Lawrence more if he tried to step up somehow, even if it just so happens that he ends up getting saved by a deus ex machina anyway.

Oh and regardless of anything, I've found Lawrence to be a really admirable character already, I just think that him trying to be a hero, no matter how unintelligent it'd be in the end, would show the kind of "guts" Horo said he should have more of, making him an even greater character to decide on pulling off such a stunt, no matter how bad it'd be for him.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Money spent on the Horo-festival *could* have been given to the Church. People are easy to manipulate if there's no competing "world-views". Irenicus points out two of thousands of examples over the last few thousand years....

Historically, I suppose you could blame the Roman Empire for taking a minor pleasant little religion and reformulating it to meet the needs of the Empire.

Good point people are easily manipulated especially when it comes to religion dare i say majority tend to be sheep. The period that Horo and Lawrence live in is a shinning example of when the church exerted huge influence over the European population. Its part of the era im kind of glad they make references to the one true god and paganism and the church considers it evil it just makes the over all theme seem more realistic.

Good catch Masanori Ota i went and checked it out and youre so right. Now heres my question. What type of role is Chole going to play? Is she going to play the money grubbing person who cares about her own interest only or will she have a soft spot since Lawrence is involved. I just wondering if the whole situation will somehow paint her as evil?

[Masanori Ota]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Good catch Masanori Ota i went and checked it out and youre so right. Now heres my question. What type of role is Chole going to play? Is she going to play the money grubbing person who cares about her own interest only or will she have a soft spot since Lawrence is involved. I just wondering if the whole situation will somehow paint her as evil?

Thanks. Personally, I don't think Chloe will be an "evil" character. At the moment she appears to be, but she's probably just part of this scheme for the money and to prove to Lawrence, who she admires/looks up to/has an interest in, that she's "all grown up." He can't very much ignore her now.

[spoiler removed by a moderator]

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Masanori Ota

Thanks. Personally, I don't think Chloe will be an "evil" character. At the moment she appears to be, but she's probably just part of this scheme for the money and to prove to Lawrence, who she admires/looks up to/has an interest in, that she's "all grown up." He can't very much ignore her now.

I was trying to get a glimpse of the hood at the end of episode 4 because in the OP we see Chole with a hood on then she turns towards the camera. I wanted to see if i could catch some color and compare but alas i have not come to anything conclusive yet. Anyone else got anything?