[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

I think Jan-Poo pointed it out before. Unless you honestly think Krauss went over 9000 and punched a goat

You have to be kidding me.

Well, if you are serious they cut that scene from the anime for a reason. I don't think anyone believes Krauss actually punched goat-kun.

Originally Posted by Kaiba

Why do you believe that Shannon and Kanon know about the metaworld?

Well, I never said that I believe Shannon and Kanon know about the meta world. My opinion is that they probably do not know about it. However, there is plenty of evidence that indicates that they may be aware of the meta world. There's no proof either way.

I would love to hear an explanation for Erika's behavior in episode 5 where she has no knowledge of anything about the meta world. Especially the part where she says "How's my blue truth?!" at the dinner table.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Ssol

You have to be kidding me.

Well, if you are serious they cut that scene from the anime for a reason. I don't think anyone believes Krauss actually punched goat-kun.


Well, I never said that I believe Shannon and Kanon know about the meta world. My opinion is that they probably do not know about it. However, there is plenty of evidence that indicates that they may be aware of the meta world. There's no proof either way.

I would love to hear an explanation for Erika's behavior in episode 5 where she has no knowledge of anything about the meta world. Especially the part where she says "How's my blue truth?!" at the dinner table.

Not to mention barging in with the red truth right on the game board.

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by Ssol

Yes, the SSVD is a group just like Eiserne Jungfrau is. Here is a part from Cornelia's TIPS:

Wizard Hunting Wright probably will be the main new character with subordinates similar to Cornelia and Gertrude.

Wizard Hunting Wright? That's an odd name... what does SSVD stand for anyway? O.o

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

Wizard Hunting Wright? That's an odd name... what does SSVD stand for anyway? O.o

They're Dine's initials.

[Kaiba]

Well, I never said that I believe Shannon and Kanon know about the meta world. My opinion is that they probably do not know about it. However, there is plenty of evidence that indicates that they may be aware of the meta world. There's no proof either way.

I would love to hear an explanation for Erika's behavior in episode 5 where she has no knowledge of anything about the meta world. Especially the part where she says "How's my blue truth?!" at the dinner table.

Haven't played 5, but from the bits and pieces I've seen, I'm with Jan-Poo in basically concluding that the entire damn game is faked, and we literally cannot trust anything that isn't in red. Erika saying "how's my blue truth?" Lie. Battler getting shoved by invisible force? Lie. Pretty much everything is a lie, so I'm not inclined to take any revelations that aren't in red seriously.

However, there is plenty of evidence that indicates that they may be aware of the meta world. There's no proof either way.

No there is no evidence, aside from the two talking in the dungeon, and that could be easily faked

[Marion]

I don't like Dine's rules. Knox is more of a set of guidelines to use that should be pretty obvious to making a good mystery (don't bring a random person and make them the culprit, twins accounted for, etc)

Dine is just basically writing rules and saying if you don't follow them then you're an idiot

Also:

Originally Posted by Rule 20

20. And (to give my Credo an even score of items) I herewith list a few of the devices which no self-respecting detective story writer will now avail himself of. They have been employed too often, and are familiar to all true lovers of literary crime. To use them is a confession of the author's ineptitude and lack of originality. (a) Determining the identity of the culprit by comparing the butt of a cigarette left at the scene of the crime with the brand smoked by a suspect. (b) The bogus spiritualistic se'ance to frighten the culprit into giving himself away. (c) Forged fingerprints. (d) The dummy-figure alibi. (e) The dog that does not bark and thereby reveals the fact that the intruder is familiar. (f)The final pinning of the crime on a twin, or a relative who looks exactly like the suspected, but innocent, person. (g) The hypodermic syringe and the knockout drops. (h) The commission of the murder in a locked room after the police have actually broken in. (i) The word association test for guilt. (j) The cipher, or code letter, which is eventually unraveled by the sleuth.

(a) Determining the identity of the culprit by comparing the butt of a cigarette left at the scene of the crime with the brand smoked by a suspect.

sup kyrie and battler.

[k//eternal]

Some of the others look familiar too, especially if you include Higurashi...

[momobunny]

I don't really like Dine's rules either... they're a bit too restricting and like you said, it seems like he's saying if you don't use them then you're a bad author or an idiot.

Originally Posted by Kaiba

Haven't played 5, but from the bits and pieces I've seen, I'm with Jan-Poo in basically concluding that the entire damn game is faked, and we literally cannot trust anything that isn't in red. Erika saying "how's my blue truth?" Lie. Battler getting shoved by invisible force? Lie. Pretty much everything is a lie, so I'm not inclined to take any revelations that aren't in red seriously.


No there is no evidence, aside from the two talking in the dungeon, and that could be easily faked

That's a pretty cheap way to write a story if you ask me.

[Dlanor .A. Nox]

Dine's...way of writing is too cocky and self-centered. I agree with some of the people here, I don't like them.

[ijriims]

Although I have to say if a detective story follows the Dine rules completely, it would be awesome to read.

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Marion

I don't like Dine's rules. Knox is more of a set of guidelines to use that should be pretty obvious to making a good mystery (don't bring a random person and make them the culprit, twins accounted for, etc)

Dine is just basically writing rules and saying if you don't follow them then you're an idiot

I agree, and even if they do bring some new character with 20 rules that must be followed that doesn't mean any of it applies to any of the previous games. As Chronotrig said, there isn't any proof that Knox's rules apply to any previous games.

[Marion]

I'd like to think Knox applies to the past games in some measurable degree. But generally I think Dine would be overdoing it - Knox is enough for Umineko, while Dine sort of restricts possibilities in a way.

[momobunny]

It'd be funny if the new character was brought in and tried to enforce rules to a game that they didn't apply to, only to have the character become frustrated or get kicked out or something. ^^;

[ijriims]

In the OP of EP2 from SN, the beginning is that

"No Dine,

No Knox,

No Fair,

In other words it is not mystery,

But it happens,
All it happens,
Let it happens.

Once Again,

No Dine.

In other words it is to starve,

Starve while demanding the fair, and die

Witch in Gold, Beatrice"

Is Fair also some detective story writer's surname?

[rogerpepitone]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

Wizard Hunting Wright? That's an odd name... what does SSVD stand for anyway? O.o

It's from Willard Huntington Wright (S. S. van Dine's real name).

Originally Posted by ijrimes

Is Fair also some detective story writer's surname?

Erle Stanley Gardner (creator of Perry Mason) wrote under the pen name A. A. Fair.

[Marion]

Does it really mean A. A. Fair? No Fair is pretty ambiguous compared to the previous statements and it's not like he wrote rules to a mystery like Knox or Dine, iirc.

[k//eternal]

Very likely it does, although he's clearly using Dine and Fair as puns.

[Revelation]

Apparently The S. S. in Van Dine stands for steamship. (Pukuku...) When he was bedridden for some supposed drug addiction for two years, he collected thousands of different volumes of detective fiction in his boredom, so there may be a reason why he may sound sick of overused detective plots.

But yes, I don't see how Dine's rules could come into play for every single arc, and if it does at all, I would like to think some would only apply to that one episode and/or rules would be tweaked or removed.

[ijriims]

BTW, I have seen from some other forum that the "key" of the epitaph may be related to Taiwan. (Not the actual location of the gold)

Any thoughts on it?

[luckyssol]

In chinese, how do you pronounce 唭哩岸? Is it "qilian"?

EDIT: Since, the railway wasn't completed until 1997 mabye that part of the theory should be rethought.