[Manga] Chapter 452 Discussion

[Ero-Senn1n]

This chapter was both good and bad.

The bad side: why is Kishi playing the stupid trick to tell something that is not true just to shock the reader. It was said that Danzou is hokage, but he is not, he is the appointed leader who has to be voted by the jounin council to become hokage or not. I think he will die before there is a voting, so he will never officially become the 6th hokage. This may be silly, but i think one of the main reasons is that Kishi will never put his old ugly face on the mountain where Yondaime, Tsunade and the other legendary hokages are. Someone who has done only the secret dirty work will never become a legendary and well know guy.

The good side: Kishi added some depth to Danzou's characters, we can begin to understand his character. He is not simply an evil old guy who wants to become hokage, i think this chapter has shown that he has a positive side too. Positive, but not good. I was thinking that he does not care about the village when it comes to his goal of becoming hokage, but now it seems that he actually cares about the village just as the other hokages cared, but in his own way of doing things.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

The good side: Kishi added some depth to Danzou's characters, we can begin to understand his character. He is not simply an evil old guy who wants to become hokage, i think this chapter has shown that he has a positive side too. Positive, but not good. I was thinking that he does not care about the village when it comes to his goal of becoming hokage, but now it seems that he actually cares about the village just as the other hokages cared, but in his own way of doing things.

-The thing is, Danzou is something of a mixed bag. I believe his idea of peace goes somewhere along the lines of "Peace at the barrel of a gun". For him, it is fine for Konoha to have friendly relations with the other nations, as long as Konoha is the one that is untouchable due to its military might. If I had to describe the guy I'd say that he is "strict to a fault". He is all "business" and treats his subjects, as well as the position of Hokage as such. And as we might be aware, in business, you have to make harsh and otherwise usavory methods to remain on top. Why? Because the business world always consumes those whose power drops at the slightest. So, you could call the guy "evil" but from his own perspective "its just business", work that needs to be done.

[Phenomenal]

Now, the plot thickens.....

We will see Madara at the five Kage meetings as the Mizukage, I garauntee it!

[Tyrone Biggums]

Who took over for Pein? Was it Konan...I remember her telling Naruto something like "we'll be behind you all the way" or some such thing.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Biggums

Who took over for Pein? Was it Konan...I remember her telling Naruto something like "we'll be behind you all the way" or some such thing.

-What she said was (and this will likely vary from scanlator to scanlator) that "Amegakure will help Naruto achieve his dream of a peaceful world". Whether that means she will take command of the said village or elect him as its new leader or something else entirely is still to be proven.

[Divine Punisher]

Originally Posted by lousylaus

serves me right for believing early spoilers. Glad to see normal Naruto has grown aswell and it's not just about powerups.
Gotta love in the first panel Karui and Omoi appeared, both Sakura & Sai standing still while Naruto's already on the move to counter them.

i totaly feel the same mate.
im probably the last person in this forum, who read this chapter. simply cuz i didnt want to see naruto as pushover. nice action btw. like it

[Alchemist007]

Naruto's thought near the end
"I'm gonna have to beat some sense into him after all" *looks at fists*

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

but there is no one alive to teach him what it is he is trying to achieve.

I agree, unless a Kage from another village decides to teach him... or someone else powerful magically appears. But honestly, where's the fun in that?

From here on out, its time for Naruto to grow on his own.

[tkdtiger]

Do you think this will be a good chance to get some character development with some of the others that have not received much spotlight. I was hoping to see how some of the other characters have grown.

[Master Mold]

I hope the five Kage will be in color next chapter.

[Killer Bee]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I'm pretty sure that destroying-Konoha-with-a-rock thing was just supposed to be a joke not indicator of their power. But yeah, the could-nin were impressive. I also like the fact that they use katana, very few ninja have used weapons outside kunai and shuriken.

Well can you imagine if they know how to use swords the way that Killer Bee can? You know ... holding them in the creases of the arms, legs, necks and abdomen? He basically defeated all of Hawk using only the swords in that manner. Not to mention he broke Suigetsu's sword, and Sasuke couldn't predict his swordstyle despite having the MS.

If his students can do the same, then they are already more formidable than Konoha's elite.

As far as the other issue, I'm not so sure that the reference that we are speaking of was supposed to be taken as a joke. Of course most would take it that way as it seems absurd that a village would be destroyed by a rock. However, this is the Naruto universe. People teleport, become intangible, create moons, control elements and use the shadows as weapons of war.

The Cloud-nin female's distress seemed genuine to me, which leads me to believe that she really believed that she is powerful enough to do great damage with little effort. Its not hard to imagine. If her jutsu was anything like Gambit's from the X-Men, her "little rock throw" could have triggered an avalanche that she thought she may have caused.

It would almost be pointless for Kishi to have included that dialogue if he wasn't indicating that she was capable of doing such a thing. And even if it was a joke, it wouldn't make sense for her to have been taken in so easily by it if she wasn't at least able to do it or had done something similar in the past elsewhere.

Time will tell once we see the Cloud-nin open up a bit and let loose with their abilities.

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

Do you think this will be a good chance to get some character development with some of the others that have not received much spotlight. I was hoping to see how some of the other characters have grown.

That's what I've been bitching about.

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-The thing is, Danzou is something of a mixed bag. I believe his idea of peace goes somewhere along the lines of "Peace at the barrel of a gun". For him, it is fine for Konoha to have friendly relations with the other nations, as long as Konoha is the one that is untouchable due to its military might. If I had to describe the guy I'd say that he is "strict to a fault". He is all "business" and treats his subjects, as well as the position of Hokage as such. And as we might be aware, in business, you have to make harsh and otherwise usavory methods to remain on top. Why? Because the business world always consumes those whose power drops at the slightest. So, you could call the guy "evil" but from his own perspective "its just business", work that needs to be done.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions ... and one doesn't necessarily have to be a "villain" for his ideas and agenda to be terrible for the village and its people.

[james0246]

^First of all, Omoi said that the pebble Karui threw could have caused an avalanche whcih could have destroyed a village. So, he was not refferencing her actual strength or powers, just a series of events that she could cause which could lead to the destruction of Konoha. (This was all a joke based around the pun of Omoi's name.)

Secondly, Samui directly says it is ridiculous to think that Karui cold have harmed Konoha, indicating that Karui never had the direct power to cause the destruction they witnessed.

Thirdly, and finally, Naruto, in this chapter, seemngly effortlessly was able to catch Karui's blade with hsi bare hands, which even if she was fighting at a fraction of her strength, would still indicate that she did not have the necessary power to destroy a village

[Somnus]

W-wh-what is this!? Did I see Naruto taking care of business? Now that's more like it!! I approve of this chapter

[Alchemist007]

Did you not see the previous fight? XD

[Killer Bee]

Originally Posted by james0246

^First of all, Omoi said that the pebble Karui threw could have caused an avalanche whcih could have destroyed a village. So, he was not refferencing her actual strength or powers, just a series of events that she could cause which could lead to the destruction of Konoha. (This was all a joke based around the pun of Omoi's name.)

Secondly, Samui directly says it is ridiculous to think that Karui cold have harmed Konoha, indicating that Karui never had the direct power to cause the destruction they witnessed.

Thirdly, and finally, Naruto, in this chapter, seemngly effortlessly was able to catch Karui's blade with hsi bare hands, which even if she was fighting at a fraction of her strength, would still indicate that she did not have the necessary power to destroy a village

Ok .. I'll concede the point about the pebble. I wasn't insisting that she did cause the damage. Only that she might have the ability to.

The part about Naruto "effortlessly" catching the sword ... that I can argue.

First, it was understood from the beginning that they(the Cloud-nin) were not to hurt the Leaf ninja. Naruto appeared to only do as well as he did because they had no intention to do any real harm. Even Kenshin Himura could be matched by strong opponents using his reverse blade sword ... that is until he let the Battousai out.

So that proves nothing. When Sai blocked Sasuke's sword, was that an indication of what Sasuke could do? No. It really wasn't even really an indication that Sai was very strong. Sai and Sakura, both powerful leaf ninja, got punked in that exchange and there was no indication that any member of Team 7 was holding back. Sakura is easily the most powerful kunoichi in the Leaf next to Tsunade. Sai is elite ROOT and regarded by Danzou as the most powerful shinobi of his generation. Yet they both were of no use in that encounter.

If those Cloud ninja learned their sword skills from Killer Bee(and they did) then they are probably more formidable than some are willing to believe at this point as Killer Bee basically spanked all of Team Hawk just with sword skills before ever having to use his bijuu. That includes child prodigy swordsman Suigetsu.

That was basically my point.

[james0246]

^I'm not doubting that Team Samui could be strong (in fact I hope they are considering the lack of powerful secondary characters in the series). And, 2 of them did bitch-slap Sakura and kick Sai around. Rather, I am saying that there is no reason to expect Karui or any of the members of Team Samui to be powerful enough to destroy a village (which was your initial claim).

As to how strong they really are...well I do not think we have any real indicator one way or another in regards to their actual strength. Suffice to say, the teacher being powerful is a good indicator that they might be strong, but Karui's surprise (something not seen in the Sasuke example) at Naruto blocking her blade could also be indicitive of strength (specifically, Kirabi would ahve simply used his lightining to hurt Naruto if he had caught one of Kirabi's blades, but since Karui did not, it is possible that she has not developed that ability yet, and consequently would be far less of a threat.)

In the end though, I am sure they will show something amazing during an actual fight, but I seriously doubt it will be anywhere near the level of Kirabi or Naruto and probably not even Sasuke (though, the last is a guess).

[Fran~]

hmmm... Danzou isnt the hokage yet... as kakashi said, it will be an "election", it seems with the jounin's votes. Danzou also said it:



so, Tsunade could wake from her comma and the jounin still can say No to Danzou.

But, Samui team against Team 7 was a great confrontation of points of views... good one Kishi, you won an intarweps.

[Somnus]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

Did you not see the previous fight? XD

Haha, of course I did. This was just a spontaneous fight though. It's just good to see that Naruto's training finally let him stay standing after a small quarrel like that. It may seem small, but usually against an "Unknown" the hero's been known to take a beating before dishing out any damage (Doesn't just apply to this manga).

[Killer Bee]

Originally Posted by james0246

^I'm not doubting that Team Samui could be strong (in fact I hope they are considering the lack of powerful secondary characters in the series). And, 2 of them did bitch-slap Sakura and kick Sai around. Rather, I am saying that there is no reason to expect Karui or any of the members of Team Samui to be powerful enough to destroy a village (which was your initial claim).

As to how strong they really are...well I do not think we have any real indicator one way or another in regards to their actual strength. Suffice to say, the teacher being powerful is a good indicator that they might be strong, but Karui's surprise (something not seen in the Sasuke example) at Naruto blocking her blade could also be indicitive of strength (specifically, Kirabi would ahve simply used his lightining to hurt Naruto if he had caught one of Kirabi's blades, but since Karui did not, it is possible that she has not developed that ability yet, and consequently would be far less of a threat.)

In the end though, I am sure they will show something amazing during an actual fight, but I seriously doubt it will be anywhere near the level of Kirabi or Naruto and probably not even Sasuke (though, the last is a guess).

Ok ... I'll buy that first part for a dollar.

But in the spirit of nitpicking, Sasuke didn't show any emotion in that encounter. Not even when he was about to attempt to kill them all using Kirin. So that point is also moot.

Also, why would the Cloud-nin use electricity to enhance their blade's cutting power if they made it clear that they weren't going to cut them from the beginning???? That doesn't make much sense.

This debate wouldn't even be going on if the Cloud-nin hadn't made it clear that they were going easy from the beginning, and even while going easy they managed to easily do away with everyone but Naruto, who still got busted in the face and knocked back.

Now I'm not taking anything away from Naruto. He acted fast and decisive and did impress by catching the sword. However, the Cloud-nin not only used the hilt of his sword to jam Naruto's elbow so that Naruto couldn't strike, but he also got into position to allow the female to go over his back to finish him off while telling her not to cut them. She on the other hand was able to flip over him and invert her sword, and strike at Naruto before one of his KB clones caught the sword, not Naruto himself.

Then as if that wasn't impressive enough, the Cloud-nin intercepted Sakura and knocked her across the field, dodged Sai's kick as if he were nothing and smashed Naruto's KB clone's face in before quickly creating distance between them without so much as a scratch.

If anything was impressive, it was the Cloud-nin and how easily they dispatched Team 7 ... and moved together flawlessly while doing it.

But as always you make a good argument.

Originally Posted by Fran~

so, Tsunade could wake from her comma and the jounin still can say No to Danzou.

Hmmm ... that could make the story interesting. Danzou could be plotting to assassinate Tsunade. If he does tries it and gets caught, the backlash could set up a battle between Konoha patriots and Root.

How would a civil war in Konoha play out? Uchiha Vs Senju? I doubt it will happen as the story goes to great lengths to prevent all out war again, but still the different factions would be more evident than ever at that point.

[Rageaholic01]

After rereading it, I noticed how Naruto managed to catch Sakura before she hit the wall. Is that actually an improvement on his speed or standard?