Claymore Chapter 115

[Jean Claymore]

This is bullshit. What has Guts ever done to be compared with someone like Raki??? I mean, this is Claymore (not to compare but personally, I always thought Raki was far behind Guts in Swordmanship and that... srry for Raki fans though)

Btw, can't believe we've already passed the number of replies from the last thread. It's been only 3 days since the Chinise scans came out.

[Shiek927]

Btw, can't believe we've already passed the number of replies from the last thread. It's been only 3 days since the Chinise scans came out.

What have they been excepting whining and complaints?

I've also noticed that the number of references to other media works is huge -- people can't bash Raki without comparing him to this or that.

[MalakTawus]

The only reason why i compared Raki to Guts is 'cause i was simply pointing out that in mangas it's not strange at all that "normal" humans can do things that are actually impossible to do in the real world.

And btw irvine, the fact that Guts can do inhuman things only thanx to his armor is pure bullshit since he was already FAR (very far) beyond the human limits a lot before getting that armor,lol.

[Freya]

Gosh I felt like its been ages since a Claymore chapter has come out.

[irvinethearcher]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

The only reason why i compared Raki to Guts is 'cause i was simply pointing out that in mangas it's not strange at all that "normal" humans can do things that are actually impossible to do in the real world.

And btw irvine, the fact that Guts can do inhuman things only thanx to his armor is pure bullshit since he was already FAR (very far) beyond the human limits a lot before getting that armor,lol.

It is not bs it is just an enumeration of mine. I forgot to mention the flying first aid kit puck I would say the guts before the eclipse was an human being. Like i mentioned before it is possible that he was engineered by this idea of evil like griffith.
He was born despite his mother was dead and so on. He began to leave the realm of phyisics and biomechanics after he was branded but i mentioned that also.
And @jean_claymore i mentioned that i think that those twins would wipe the floor with zodd the immortal.
raki < guts < zodd < shrimp twins. See the problem here.
Those shrimp twins must have fought him with less than 5% of their strength otherwise it all does not really make sense. I mean they killed those feeders in an instant and feeders are superior to AB in general.

[Korinov]

The twins also took the AFs (weak AFs if we take into account they are 'fresh' and don't have combat experience agaisnt AOs) by surprise and in mid-air.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact they clearly didn't go against Raki at full strenght. One of the twins even says it: "as long as his opponent is human, he won't lose"... it's pretty self-explanatory provided they probably don't know Clarice

[rafael1932]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

The only reason why i compared Raki to Guts is 'cause i was simply pointing out that in mangas it's not strange at all that "normal" humans can do things that are actually impossible to do in the real world.

well, I can give examples of mangas in which humans remain humans – have you ever Heard elfen lied ? so it is a good example or not ?

The way you talk is like you believe that raki is man but with superhuman strength. So what we should expect next ? he starting to kill awakened ones ? it would not be so strange after what we saw – talking about numbers between 40 to 47.

[Nixl]

Originally Posted by Gooral

We don't know it was permanent. If he was human than I doubt it, he shouldn't have that much power to do that and bones should knit. And you reminded me of another stupid thing and another proof Raki is a retard. "If I hit you in a bad spot it may be worse than getting cut". Not really. If he used the same amount of force while having a sharp blade he would cut this man's arm off along with bones, muscles and everything else and guy would bleed out to death or the wound would get nasty and he would die because of complications. There was no such danger when the bone was crushed.

I see what you are saying, but I disagree Gooral.

A cut can be clean and precise in the area of injury, while blunt force trauma creates a giant internal mess. Blunt force trauma can cause tissue damage, crushed bones, and internal bleeding which can culminate into an injury that is easily fatal. Also, consider that that medical treatments on the island are probably not up to modern standards. He may live, but in the long term how is that possibly going to heal without modern surgery techniques? Crushed and shattered bones often need to be set back into place.

In addition, I think you should also consider the pain factor. Deep cuts can sever nerves and block pain receptors. I severed a tendon in my hand not too long ago and thankfully the cut was deep enough that is damaged my nerve, thus no pain. I do not think you can that same comfort from blunt force trauma.

Raki used a blunt claymore. He struck with a heavy object that had a small surface area (blunt edge of the sword). The force upon that Mib must have been catastrophic. I do remember a while back hearing the main advantage to broad swords/claymores was the blunt force against armored opponents rather than the edge itself. Those Mibs had no armor to protect themselves.

Perhaps Raki intended to let them off easy, but honestly not by much considering the long term damage to any spot he hits.

Edit:

@Rafael1932, I'm sorry I missed your post. I do not think the fight was a cheap hollywood movie cut out. Honestly, what fight in claymore is not exaggerated to some extent? I am simply glad the fight was not super-natural in nature. In claymore the fights often feel like a drawn version of rock-paper-scissors with the techniques. This fight, although not all that realistic, did not seem to involve super special techniques like the rest of the cast has devolved into (even Yuma). Clarice and the Human characters are my only hope for non-technique driven fights.

[Falcor]

Originally Posted by Jean Claymore

Btw, can't believe we've already passed the number of replies from the last thread. It's been only 3 days since the Chinise scans came out.

Originally Posted by Freya

Gosh I felt like its been ages since a Claymore chapter has come out.

Apparently, others share that sentiment so much that it results in the significant boost in posts for this chapter. That and all the Raki outrage....

It is actually refreshing to see that Yagi hasn't lost his knack, after all. After the last couple of chapters, it looked like interest in Claymore had hit an all-time low. Love him, hate him, or be totally indifferent... Raki managed to breathe some fresh air into Claymore.

I still am of the opinion that most of the Raki hate stems from the anime version. I hated anime Raki with a passion, but when I read the manga I found Raki to be far more tolerable. After having watched several different animes since first watching Claymore late last year, I find that many of the english-dubbed versions suffer from whiny, annoying voice-overs of certain characters (like Raki) that just grate on the nerves. Consequently, having re-watched some of these series with the original Japanese soundtrack (including Claymore) I find them far more enjoyable.

[Vinak]

since we are all sharing how we feel about our good friend Raki. I might as well give my thoughts of the subject.

I personally feel Raki could have easily been written out of the story at chapter 1. He had served very little purpose to the plot up until Yagi started ass-pulling after the time skip. I am of the belief that some editor forced him back in.

I won't go so far as to say I "hate" Raki. I just don't have any emotional attachment to him, and thus don't really care what happens to him in the story.

[irvinethearcher]

Originally Posted by Vinak

since we are all sharing how we feel about our good friend Raki. I might as well give my thoughts of the subject.

I personally feel Raki could have easily been written out of the story at chapter 1. He had served very little purpose to the plot up until Yagi started ass-pulling after the time skip. I am of the belief that some editor forced him back in.

I won't go so far as to say I "hate" Raki. I just don't have any emotional attachment to him, and thus don't really care what happens to him in the story.

I think he has his purpose. Theresa Clare -> Clare Raki.
The only thing that disturbs me here is that he was a bit too strong of a fighter against the twins for my taste and therefore distorts yagi's carefully implemented structure of power.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by irvinethearcher

It is not bs it is just an enumeration of mine. I forgot to mention the flying first aid kit puck I would say the guts before the eclipse was an human being. Like i mentioned before it is possible that he was engineered by this idea of evil like griffith.
He was born despite his mother was dead and so on. He began to leave the realm of phyisics and biomechanics after he was branded but i mentioned that also.
And @jean_claymore i mentioned that i think that those twins would wipe the floor with zodd the immortal.
raki < guts < zodd < shrimp twins. See the problem here.
Those shrimp twins must have fought him with less than 5% of their strength otherwise it all does not really make sense. I mean they killed those feeders in an instant and feeders are superior to AB in general.

It was a surprise attack, and Abyssal feeders aren't stronger than AB's in general. It took a good year before they learned how to defeat Isley, and these guys are brand new. They probably start out weaker than AB's and get stronger with experience.

Originally Posted by irvinethearcher

I think he has his purpose. Theresa Clare -> Clare Raki.
The only thing that disturbs me here is that he was a bit too strong of a fighter against the twins for my taste and therefore distorts yagi's carefully implemented structure of power.

It wasn't carefully implemented at all. Claire beat Ophelia, awakened Ophelia, you know rank number freaking 4 and she wasn't even that strong back then. I would say that was a bigger jump in power. It's more about how techniques match up with each other than overall power ranking, although there is a overall power ranking. It's pretty much the twins had a relatively poor sword technique and were going easy on him, so he exploited this fact.

[Traun]

Originally Posted by Vinak

I personally feel Raki could have easily been written out of the story at chapter 1. He had served very little purpose to the plot up until Yagi started ass-pulling after the time skip. I am of the belief that some editor forced him back in.

That could be said about 98% of the cast. Yagi needed a "Watson" for his "Sherlock", it is hard to pull a character who goes only with himself and even harder to make it look good. Not to mention that Raki was the connection the reader had with the universe (what is the, how does it work, why does it work like that). Furthermore we needed a character with which we can identify and who has values similar to ours ( you can't just kill your friend, I won't kill you, just because you are turning into monster).

He had his role, now that we are on chapter 115 he no longer needs to do that so he's being reintroduced as a "fighter" or someone more central to the plot.

You might argue that the plot doesn't need him now, but as I said, this is true for anyone in Claymore outside of Clare, Jane (or was it Jain) and Priscilla.

[MalakTawus]

well, I can give examples of mangas in which humans remain humans – have you ever Heard elfen lied ? so it is a good example or not ?

Lol,true.......but infact i NEVER said that in all the mangas humans can do that, i simply said that "it's not strange that in manga...." and this is a truth that noone can contest,especially if we look at mangas (or even manhwas if we want) where "fighting" is one of the main themes.

The way you talk is like you believe that raki is man but with superhuman strength. So what we should expect next ? he starting to kill awakened ones ? it would not be so strange after what we saw – talking about numbers between 40 to 47.

Yes,absolutely.
I don't know if he's really that strong, but judging from what we have seen i wouldn't exclude the possibility that Raki can kill low-level ABs......but tbh i'm not even 100% sure that he's still a normal human since i still suspect that Isley could have done something to Raki (afterall it's not that we know a lot about what happened to Raki in all those years,everything is possible imo).

------------------------------

Btw Raki's role is to save Claire.....and that doesn't seem so unimportant to me,lol.

(not to mention that now that Isley is dead Raki is basically the only one that knows quite well Priscilla and since we know VERY LITTLE about Claire's nemesis......)

[Dj0rel]

Originally Posted by Korinov

One of the twins even says it: "as long as his opponent is human, he won't lose"... it's pretty self-explanatory provided they probably don't know Clarice

I would just like to point out that the "as long as his opponent is human, he won't lose" line says that he will not lose against human opponent not that he will lose if his opponent is non-human.

Originally Posted by rafael1932

well, I can give examples of mangas in which humans remain humans – have you ever Heard elfen lied ? so it is a good example or not ?

Did Kouta ever train to become stronger?

Originally Posted by Vinak

I personally feel Raki could have easily been written out of the story at chapter 1. He had served very little purpose to the plot up until Yagi started ass-pulling after the time skip. I am of the belief that some editor forced him back in.

This is incorrect. Raki has had greater influence to the plot than many other named and still living characters. If it wasn't for him several events that are critical to the plot advancement would have never happened.

[Joe_fh]

I'll point out again that the first few attacks the Shrimp twin launched at Raki weren't even close to being at full force nor intended to be deadly. If you're shorten than your opponent and your aim is to kill your attack should be launched straight forward or pointed a bit upwards depending on your opponent's height.

The first attack when Raki was still confused and unarmed was launched from an upper position (arked) giving way more time to be dodged and was even aimed higher making even crouching a great option to evade. In other words it wasn't an attack launched with the intention to kill. The second one was aimed in front of him at the ground to restrict his movement - again not something you would do if you wanted to just kill your target.

The third attack was the most serious one since now Raki was armed. It again was an 'ark" attack which, while more powerful is still slower. If your target isn't prepared properly even when blocked it could knock him down. Still it was basically a single attack and after it was blocked the fight changed to more of a spar rather than something else.

Either way from the moment it started the twins were faced with unknown human who looked nothing like the MiBs nor was he armed and/or called out in any way to alert anyone else. Faced with that killing him would be a very remote option. They also mentioned he had a different aura than the MiBs which again would point to them not trying to kill him but force him to run away or knock him out.

The attacks aimed at the AF/AE were very fast and straight to the point - no arks - just straight line to the target. The attacks were also launched when the opponents were mid-air (no chance to dodge ) and were also more of a "slow them down" attacks which crippled the AF/AEs (again mid-air) and enabled the other twin to cut them down. You can see how the two are completely different and also the later was a surprise attack launched when the opponent couldn't avoid it - not because of lack of skill but because they couldn't change their trajectory in the air.

Originally Posted by rafael1932

well, I can give examples of mangas in which humans remain humans – have you ever Heard elfen lied ? so it is a good example or not ?

Elfen Lied is not a good example at all because the whole point of the main character there is to be human. There was a huge contrast between the two and since the story was focused mostly on the character's emotions and interactions between them - not fighting.

There are different types of manga and even two in the same genre can emphasize on different things.
When fighting is one of the main themes in a manga (and by fighting I don't mean like a sport) in most humans can do things impossible in reality.

[irvinethearcher]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

It was a surprise attack, and Abyssal feeders aren't stronger than AB's in general. It took a good year before they learned how to defeat Isley, and these guys are brand new. They probably start out weaker than AB's and get stronger with experience.

It wasn't carefully implemented at all. Claire beat Ophelia, awakened Ophelia, you know rank number freaking 4 and she wasn't even that strong back then. I would say that was a bigger jump in power. It's more about how techniques match up with each other than overall power ranking, although there is a overall power ranking. It's pretty much the twins had a relatively poor sword technique and were going easy on him, so he exploited this fact.

Miria said: Consider them adversaries superior to awakened beings.

Ophelia committed suicide, letting clare kill her, even helping her to accomplish it.

[lucasd]

Or maybe claymore still loathe killing humans hence twins attack was not a full power

And for blunt vs cut, is like between an arrow and a gun, clear cut is always better.
Crushed bones in arm would simply make a surgeon amputate it later plus much higher chance of gangrene
You know how many people died training with wooden swords in Japan?
Good hit can shatter your skull...

[Korinov]

Originally Posted by Vinak

since we are all sharing how we feel about our good friend Raki. I might as well give my thoughts of the subject.

I personally feel Raki could have easily been written out of the story at chapter 1. He had served very little purpose to the plot up until Yagi started ass-pulling after the time skip. I am of the belief that some editor forced him back in.

I won't go so far as to say I "hate" Raki. I just don't have any emotional attachment to him, and thus don't really care what happens to him in the story.

Then, what do you think of Clarice and Miata? If Yagi asked me to pick two characters to delete from the story, it would be those two. How many chapters they took en route to Rabona? What's their contribution to the story been so far? I really hope Yagi has something relevant planned for them, cuz right now they just look like scraps of an aborted arc.

Originally Posted by Dj0rel

I would just like to point out that the "as long as his opponent is human, he won't lose" line says that he will not lose against human opponent not that he will lose if his opponent is non-human.

Yes, but it more or less implies that fighting something clearly "super-human" (i.e., a medium to high ranked claymore) would be too much for him. Don't take me wrong, Raki's swordskills right now may be better than most of the new-generation claymores, if not all of them. I'm referring to just swordmanship (moves, technique, resources, etc), not techniques which involve yoki or use of superhuman habilities ('gentle sword', etc).

[Dj0rel]

Originally Posted by Korinov

Yes, but it more or less implies that fighting something clearly "super-human" (i.e., a medium to high ranked claymore) would be too much for him. Don't take me wrong, Raki's swordskills right now may be better than most of the new-generation claymores, if not all of them. I'm referring to just swordmanship (moves, technique, resources, etc), not techniques which involve yoki or use of superhuman habilities ('gentle sword', etc).

Yes, I know but some are considering it a proof that even Clarice is out of Raki's league.