Question: Threads & Topics

[felix]

Originally Posted by Solace

Derailing a feedback thread with a rant is not the way to do it, you're just making it more difficult for everyone else to discuss the things the OP is suggesting.

Even if you are right—and frankly it this situation I think you are both wrong, but that’s another discussion—complaining about him complaining isn’t actually doing any good. What do you expect to happen? Chances are you are just encouraging him to do the same and complain about your complaining (or point out how you are derailing it further). Additionally, chances are this topic will come back again and again in another thread.

Out of everyone there you have the power to fix it with out any hostilities. (@Solace)

If you think something should go in another topic (such as Dist’s rant), just create a new topic for it. (and then post there)

Spoiler for short how-to:

Given the following posts somewhere in a thread:

• Post #A
  • paragraph 1
  • paragraph 2
  • paragraph 3
• Post #B
  • paragraph 1
  • paragraph 2
• Post #C
• Post #D

Where paragraph 2 of post #A is offtopic, along with paragraph 1 & 2 of post #B, and post #C; but the offtopic parts are good enough for a topic.

To fix this you select post B and C and do a Move Posts (+ Move Posts to New Thread). After creation you copy the url, go back and select post A this time and do a Copy Posts (+ Copy Posts to Existing Thread) and paste the url. You then just go and edit out paragraph 1 in the copy and paragraph 2 in the original and you are done. The two threads will then look something like this:

• Topic 1
  • Post #A
    • paragraph 1
    • paragraph 3
  • Post #D
  
  
• Topic 2
  • Post #A
    • paragraph 2
  • Post #B
    • paragraph 1
    • paragraph 2
  • Post #C

This how you used to do it! and topic 2 might not even have been “offtopic”. But you seem to hardly ever do it anymore, or require a lot of conditions to do it. [From my point of view] The staff has been very shy about creating new topics, even when it would be obvious one would be needed, or a discussion would be better if it had it’s own topic. Rants are not really rants when they are on topic, and discussion is usually more civilized. You (the staff) seem to go to just about any length to fix problems, except just create a topic for it; which is the simplest and most elegant solution, and goes hand in hand with merging topics (or posts into topics when one exists already), which strangely enough you have no problem with.

---

Which brings up the following questions:

Are you afraid of creating topics that might not get that many posts, if any at all? If yes, why?
What exactly is/are the problem(s) with creating a topic for just about everything?
Is a single off-topic post not enough for creating a topic? Are topics not just simply a collection of posts, and hence shouldn’t they be treated no different?
Isn’t it easier to moderate a discussion if it has it’s own topic?
Do you see some problem with forums with large amounts of topics?
Just how do you describe something as on-topic? For example, why is a rant off-topic? (not saying some rants are not off-topic)
In series forums, why are not a lot of drawn out discussions split off early on?
When do you consider splitting a discussion into it’s own topic?
Is wrongfully splitting a topic not easily fixed by simply merging it back in?

[Solace]

Originally Posted by felix

Even if you are right—and frankly it this situation I think you are both wrong, but that’s another discussion—complaining about him complaining isn’t actually doing any good. What do you expect to happen? Chances are you are just encouraging him to do the same and complain about your complaining (or point out how you are derailing it further). Additionally, chances are this topic will come back again and again in another thread.

I wasn't complaining. What do you want me to do here exactly, felix? If I remove his post, or otherwise do anything outside of reply publicly, I'd be accused of exactly what he was claiming we do, which is ignoring his feedback and shutting down discussion. Giving a strongly worded reply was my solution.

I'm damned either way, aren't I.

Out of everyone there you have the power to fix it with out any hostilities. (@Solace)

I appreciate the compliment, but there is no "I" in team.

If you think something should go in another topic (such as Dist’s rant),

I didn't feel his rant needed a new topic.

Rants are not really rants when they are on topic, and discussion is usually more civilized.

Rants are problems when they disrupt discussion. Being on or off topic isn't always the problem. If I make a post that is on topic, but with poorly chosen wording, I'm not inviting discussion, I'm inviting flames. Communication isn't just about what you say, but how you say it. A well phrased rant can have more impact on positive discussion than one filled with vulgarities or condescension, for example. I realize some posters don't really care what others think, but imo, it's important to consider the audience no matter where you are.

You (the staff) seem to go to just about any length to fix problems, except just create a topic for it; which is the simplest and most elegant solution, and goes hand in hand with merging topics (or posts into topics when one exists already), which strangely enough you have no problem with.

Maybe. We're only human after all, and humans are creatures of habit. We all have comfort zones and behavior quirks. That said, I'm curious as to what section of the forums you think we should be more attentive to the possibilities of thread splitting. I assume you're referring to the anime subforums?

Also, don't forget that we are volunteers and aren't made of free time. We try to cover as much of the forum as possible but that doesn't mean we're always aware of everything immediately either. If there is discussion that someone feels deserves a new thread, feel free to report it so we're made aware of it.

---

Which brings up the following questions:

Are you afraid of creating topics that might not get that many posts, if any at all? If yes, why?

First and foremost, we want threads that we know will have use. This isn't always going to happen, but we want to minimize the number of threads that don't really have any use. This is one reason why we're discussing the usefulness of certain template threads for subforums...some just don't get much use, if any at all.

So it isn't that we're afraid. More like cautious.

What exactly is/are the problem(s) with creating a topic for just about everything?

Spam. Clutter. This forum has been around for a long time, not including the crash. There's a ton of threads, and it isn't always easy to manage. Exceptions come up, sometimes tough choices have to be made. There's a risk of being spread out too much, and losing focus. It's a difficult line to walk.

Is a single off-topic post not enough for creating a topic? Are topics not just simply a collection of posts, and hence shouldn’t they be treated no different?

A single post can be, but usually isn't. We look for activity, and interest in continuing discussion. A number of threads originated from the News Thread, for example, split off/created either by us or the community. We aren't always reading every thread all the time to be on top of possible thread splits either. It's impossible to follow every discussion on the forums, all the time. This is why reports can be handy.

Isn’t it easier to moderate a discussion if it has it’s own topic?

Sure. But easy isn't always good.

Do you see some problem with forums with large amounts of topics?

Not really. I happen to moderate one.

Just how do you describe something as on-topic? For example, why is a rant off-topic? (not saying some rants are not off-topic)

On topic means what is relevant to current discussion. While this isn't a perfect answer, due to the nature of evolving conversation, there are some tangents that have nothing to do with anything in the thread and could best be summed up as chatter.

On the subject of rants, I mentioned reasons earlier, but ultimately it comes down to the fact that when most people rant, they do so in a way that distracts from any point they seek to make. The responses to the rant then tend to be off topic and/or emotionally charged and the thread degenerates into derailment and/or flaming. Some rants are constructed well enough to avoid this, most are not.

In series forums, why are not a lot of drawn out discussions split off early on?

We aren't psychic? Are you suggesting we gut the general thread when creating a subforum and generate new topics from that?

When do you consider splitting a discussion into it’s own topic?

When there is a demand for it, or the thread has abruptly derailed due to the large volume of posts that have changed topic. Again, we're not perfect and don't always know the flow of a particular threads discussion well enough to judge such things right away. Sometimes discussion goes back on topic just as quickly as it went off topic.

Is wrongfully splitting a topic not easily fixed by simply merging it back in?

Splitting and merging constantly places stress on the server, slowing down performance for everyone. In addition to this, posts that are split or merged don't do so perfectly. This contributes to messy and difficult to follow discussions. Once in a while, or merging very old threads with a newer one...this is fine. Merging two new threads together, let's say they have a page each, will cause all of the posts to be sorted incorrectly. Merging and splitting are tools we don't like to use frivolously. When things go wrong, they can go very, very wrong...a lesson some of us have learned the hard way.