Claymore Chapter 123

[fraktur]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

That user was also a very bad prankster or a clever troll, maybe both

[claremore]

Anastasia's hair... where is it attached to? I understand, sort of, that yoki enables it to become elastic and stronger...but that doesn't account for how its all strung up in the air, with no structures anywhere to support it? (sorry if already discussed)

[Shiek927]

Can't really agree with that Fraktur; never have had experience with what you'd call a "good" troll; everyone I've ever known has been, well, a troll....even if they didn't act like one up-front.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Claymore!

(...) Exactly. So why say my reasons are hilarious? (...)

As I've written, most of them have the same value as "Miria shaved herself before battle" since she doesn't appear to have a beard, moustache or leg hairs (not that we would see leg hairs when she wears pants). In other words, you were praising Claymore for doing the same thing a thousandth time (e.g. Deneve being alive or being awesome at regeneration) or praising Claymore for something ridiculous (like Deneve saying a long explanation during battle, ignoring the fact that it made the battle and Claymores' opponent look dumb by letting them chat). I can understand that you just like it but your arguments suck and were very forceful. I could do the same and give you 7 ridiculous reasons why I didn't like the chapter (like that there were no animals, not even birds in the sky, nor there were any plants) but it's pointless.

BTW, how Miria and others managed to keep their balance while walking on such a thin thread?

[Fermat]

Originally Posted by claremore

Anastasia's hair... where is it attached to? I understand, sort of, that yoki enables it to become elastic and stronger...but that doesn't account for how its all strung up in the air, with no structures anywhere to support it? (sorry if already discussed)

Theoretically, they're supposed to be strung up to stones, pillars, trees, etc, the illustration of which Yagi has overlooked, to great disappointment. It's very unlikely that they're actually levitating, since CLAYMORE usually doesn't venture into such a level of fantasy.

Originally Posted by Gooral

BTW, how Miria and others managed to keep their balance while walking on such a thin thread?

If their modification into claymores enhanced their speed, strength, etc, then it's quite likely that other senses (equilibrioception, proprioception, etc) were also greatly enhanced, giving them the ability to do ridiculous feats.

[Gooral]

BTW, I think I found a way to kill Priscilla. Since Ana's threads get "tougher" the more youki is inserted, all they need to do is to tell Priscilla to stand on it and insert her youki and she will be cut in half ;P.

Seriously though, I could buy that Claymores have enhanced equilibrioception but their bodies aren't tougher and can be easily cut. So if they didn't have steel boots on them they really could cut themselves (standing on Ana's hair) being under such pressure.

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Gooral

As I've written, most of them have the same value as "Miria shaved herself before battle" since she doesn't appear to have a beard, moustache or leg hairs (not that we would see leg hairs when she wears pants).

No they don't. What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the story. My reasons to like the chapter are legitimate and are relevant. Don't try to put my reasons in that catagory just because you can't understand them and think that they are ridiculous.

In other words, you were praising Claymore for doing the same thing a thousandth time (e.g. Deneve being alive or being awesome at regeneration) or praising Claymore for something ridiculous (like Deneve saying a long explanation during battle, ignoring the fact that it made the battle and Claymores' opponent look dumb by letting them chat).

And yet I don't see anything wrong with that. I like that Deneve can regenerate and I don't think that it is ridiculous. that sort of thing happens all the time in Manga.

I can understand that you just like it but your arguments suck and were very forceful.

Arguments? What arguments? I'm not arguing anything. they are my reasons to like the chapter. I am not trying to force them on anyone. I was only stating what i felt about the chapter. I was not saying that it should be how everyone feels because i know that people (like you) hate the chapter for the reasons i like it. I never tried to force anything on anyone. I was saying why i like the chapter but it is clear that you don't understand them. Most likely because you are too stubborn to get past your strong dislike of the chapter (and what is going on in the story right now) to understand my reasons to like the chapter.

I could do the same and give you 7 ridiculous reasons why I didn't like the chapter (like that there were no animals, not even birds in the sky, nor there were any plants) but it's pointless.

I guess my reasons are only ridiculous to you because i don't see them that way. I liked the chapter and you hated it. So you don't need to call my reasons ridiculous just because you think that they are pointless and have no depth. You clearly don't understand.

So in the end you can't seem to understand my opinion. So you just criticize it.

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Gooral

BTW, I think I found a way to kill Priscilla. Since Ana's threads get "tougher" the more youki is inserted, all they need to do is to tell Priscilla to stand on it and insert her youki and she will be cut in half ;P.

Seriously though, I could buy that Claymores have enhanced equilibrioception but their bodies aren't tougher and can be easily cut. So if they didn't have steel boots on them they really could cut themselves (standing on Ana's hair) being under such pressure.

Priscilla would fall backwards before the string went through her torso but its a cool idea.

Claymore do seem to have tougher bodies then humans like yoma do but even yoma can be cut.

It seems that Anastasia has the ability to grow hair for her to make her hair cover such long distances.

Originally Posted by Dj0rel

Next chapter, Narration: "Meanwhile, back at the Rabona. The blob which Clare and Priscilla are trapped inside of... still does nothing."

It would be cool to see Clare fighting Priscilla for control of the Destroyer while inside it, the person with the stronger mind would get control.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Gooral

BTW, I think I found a way to kill Priscilla. Since Ana's threads get "tougher" the more youki is inserted, all they need to do is to tell Priscilla to stand on it and insert her youki and she will be cut in half ;P.

Seriously though, I could buy that Claymores have enhanced equilibrioception but their bodies aren't tougher and can be easily cut. So if they didn't have steel boots on them they really could cut themselves (standing on Ana's hair) being under such pressure.

.......

I want to say no to the Claymore's having better balance, but I don't think I could; no matter how rigid Ana's hair might be, it's simply too thin; their is no way they could stay on that thing (even if they don't move, and simply jumped from spot-to-spot) if they didn't.

Claymore's have increased capabilities in virtually every stat you can think of... increased strength, speed, stamina, flexibility, equilibrium , agility, coordination, sharper senses/perception, reflexes, chemical/disease immunity, weather adaptation, regeneration...

Naturally, how far they all go in each particular category depends on the warrior themselves; Ophelia for instance, strongly comes to mind in how flexible she is; Clarice as well, for how weak she is in every category that Raki could potentially beat her. Mental categories...well, they all have increased perception....how, the mind is definitely largely left alone: their personalities (otherwise, all the warriors would be A&B-type drones, which the Org would kill for) aren't artificially changed, they don't seem to possess any sort of increased IQ, mental performance, memory....if their are enhancements, they are extremely minimal.

The largest and most obvious category that is strangely left behind is Durability; their flesh is just as vulnerable as it ever was, even to someone as powerful as Priscilla...pain threshold is undoubtedly increased as well, but not durability...the only exception seems to be with Awakened Beings that transform since, like with Dauf, they can have super-strong bodies that seem nigh-impervious.

Not sure I get your Priscilla-killing tactic...she wouldn't fall for something like that in the first place if it worked, and even if she was successfully cut up, she'd regenerate instantly, assuming her powering-up/youki didn't already tear Ana's hairs to shreds.

Originally Posted by TimeMask

It would be cool to see Clare fighting Priscilla for control of the Destroyer while inside it, the person with the stronger mind would get control.

Meh; in all honesty, I've sort of lost interest in Raciella....

I've never believed that that Claire was remote-controlling Raciella, as I ranted to Fenrir about (who strangely changed his avatar after all these years; begins here at http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...talline&page=5 on post 86)....and I have a feeling she will be dead, or join the Ghosts and, even though I actually predicted that at one point, I'm not sure I like that idea anymore...I think I like most with Raciella being her own third-party; if anything, I prefer her being this mindless monster then anybody controlling her.

If we do see what goes on inside the blob, I'm hoping to see all sorts of revelations and perhaps a mental-battle of Claire vs Priscilla akin to her fight with Rafaela; it could even involve her killing off Prissy's Awakened persona, satisfying Claire's urge for revenge.

There are all sorts of possibilities; whatever the case may be, I hope Yagi uses it to his fullest and he doesn't just skip over it and give us a flimsy flashback at some point.

But for Raciella...I don't know; maybe it's just because we haven't seen her in a long time; the balance of power has gotten extremely weird lately now with the ZAOs or, perhaps, it's exactly it's more or less how it was at one point.....3 AO's, a fused being that dwarfs them, and Priscilla that dwarfs her.

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Meh; in all honesty, I've sort of lost interest in Raciella....

I've never believed that that Claire was remote-controlling Raciella, as I ranted to Fenrir about (who strangely changed his avatar after all these years; begins here at http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...talline&page=5 on post 86)....and I have a feeling she will be dead, or join the Ghosts and, even though I actually predicted that at one point, I'm not sure I like that idea anymore...I think I like most with Raciella being her own third-party; if anything, I prefer her being this mindless monster then anybody controlling her.

If we do see what goes on inside the blob, I'm hoping to see all sorts of revelations and perhaps a mental-battle of Claire vs Priscilla akin to her fight with Rafaela; it could even involve her killing off Prissy's Awakened persona, satisfying Claire's urge for revenge.

There are all sorts of possibilities; whatever the case may be, I hope Yagi uses it to his fullest and he doesn't just skip over it and give us a flimsy flashback at some point.

But for Raciella...I don't know; maybe it's just because we haven't seen her in a long time; the balance of power has gotten extremely weird lately now with the ZAOs or, perhaps, it's exactly it's more or less how it was at one point.....3 AO's, a fused being that dwarfs them, and Priscilla that dwarfs her.

I don't think Clare has full control of the Destroyer currently but if she gains full control this may enable her to escape from it.

For Clare to get full control she may have to fight every mind inside the Destroyer.

If Clare gains full control she may be able to create a new body for herself since the Destroyer can create mini awakened beings by firing rods out.

I'm guessing the new 3 awakened beings have power comparable to Isley, Hysteria's speed may allow her to fight stronger opponents.

[murikibishii]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

they don't seem to possess any sort of increased IQ, mental performance, memory....if their are enhancements, they are extremely minimal.

Dr. Deneve has developed clairvoyance, mindreading and other impressive mental skills, hasn't she?

I haven't been around much lately because the story is too convoluted and boring right now. It's good to see that more and more people feel as strongly about Deneve as I do. I hope I can get as many supporters in wishing Helen and the newly annoying Miria to exit the scene as well, but Deneve definitely needs to die yesterday for the sake of improving the story. I know the Deneve diehard here who's consistently negative repped me for stating the obvious will now do it again, but that's just denial in action.

While I'm here, let me just mention how much I love the genius plot device that's Anastasia's hair. For some reason, even though the hairs emit youki, no one seems to be able to see them unless they've been told about them. Like poor Hysteria, who can't be let in on it because she'd cut the hairs down in less than a heartbeat and no more airwalking for you. Then of course as soon as someone is told about the hair, it only takes a moment for them to become an expert in seeing and using it like a professional acrobat. I don't care how impressive Claymores are physically, this is a matter of skill and not just stats. Let's add how the Ghosts have apparently spent time setting the whole battlefield up with all that strung up hair before they showed up. Better yet, no one noticed them doing it. Even better yet, since there are no high objects nearby, the hair must be strung over distances of hundreds of yards or more.

I'm also starting to think that Awakened beings must be hard of hearing. I used to think they'd have enhanced senses but it looks like it's not a problem to loudly talk about all your tricks and plans in their vicinity without them overhearing you. Even when they're standing around waiting for you to finish talking so they can finally attack you.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by TimeMask

I'm guessing the new 3 awakened beings have power comparable to Isley, Hysteria's speed may allow her to fight stronger opponents.

Time will tell how strong the ZAOS really are, but they seem to have failed in the hope of them being stronger then the original Big Three...they are still extremely powerful by all rights of course; Hysteria's speed is dwarfed only by Priscilla, which has been unheard of till now.

I haven't been around much lately because the story is too convoluted and boring right now.

Convoluted? 0_o

It's one thing if you feel the story is boring, but what's convoluted about it? Does anything confuse you or anything?

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Hysteria's speed is dwarfed only by Priscilla, which has been unheard of till now.

Oh?

When was it proven that Priscilla is faster than Hysteria. I would say that Hysteria is faster than Priscilla (On the ground). Priscilla can probably attack faster and has faster reflexes but i would say that Hysteria has more movement speed.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Claymore!

Oh?

When was it proven that Priscilla is faster than Hysteria. I would say that Hysteria is faster than Priscilla (On the ground). Priscilla can probably attack faster and has faster reflexes but i would say that Hysteria has more movement speed.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...ysteria&page=6 http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=124

Had this conversation with Gooral and it was actually him who convinced me...put simply, Hysteria is the first person on her AO level that we've ever seen doing Miria-style phantom-moves in mid-air....nobody has ever done that: not Alicia, not Riful, not Isley, not Luciella, not Rosemary....Rigardo wasn't an AO, but his forte was speed, and we didn't even see that from him.

That is fast.

The reason however why I say Priscilla is still faster, is because we've seen her, in her human-form actually, pull off similar "after-images" when she was chasing Deneve...moving so fast, she appeared to be stationary at some points; in fact, she was moving so fast that the HellCats around her exploded...this could simply be because she blasted them away, but it remains a strong possibility -- plus, again, she was in her human form, which implies even greater potential when she awakens.

Hysteria is definitely the fastest being we've seen in the story thus far; Priscilla is arguable, but I say she's still faster....still, all things considered, Hysteria's speed is unbelievable.

[MalakTawus]

It seems to me that Priscilla has never gone as fast as Histy or Claire.....

....but probably the only reason is that she never was serious enough to show her real speed......or maybe she really isn't THAT fast,lol.
I mean, she doesn't really need that level of speed to be a super-crazy monster, i'd say she has already enough strong points .


PS: Of course i'm not saying that Prissy isn't fast since it's obvious that her speed that she showed us is already incredible, just to avoid misunderstandings.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by MalakTawus

It seems to me that Priscilla has never gone as fast as Histy or Claire.....

....but probably the only reason is that she never was serious enough to show her real speed......or maybe she really isn't THAT fast,lol.
I mean, she doesn't really need that level of speed to be a super-crazy monster, i'd say she has already enough strong points .


PS: Of course i'm not saying that Prissy isn't fast since it's obvious that her speed that she showed us is already incredible, just to avoid misunderstandings.

You are definitely right in that sense....it's something Nixl said; that Priscilla is very very conservative about how much power she uses...she only uses as much as it takes to kill or do whatever needs doing and, almost all the time, the bare minimum gets the job done.

[murikibishii]

I'm proud to report that the Deneve diehard has quickly given me anonymous negative rep for the previous post, exactly as expected of a sore loser. Not hard to guess who's been doing it virtually every time I've stated my opinion of Deneve. Keep it up for all I care, doesn't make Dr. Deneve any more popular.

Originally Posted by Shiek927

It's one thing if you feel the story is boring, but what's convoluted about it? Does anything confuse you or anything?

Nice, let's focus on a particular word in my post instead of any of the points I made. Too convoluted means too full of asspulls that fail rational comprehension and break suspension of disbelief. For example the invisible-until-told magic hair I mentioned. I hope that answers it, because I'm not going to repeat all the asspull complaints people have already made around here.

[Teresa4ever]

Originally Posted by murikibishii

I'm proud to report that the Deneve diehard has quickly given me anonymous negative rep for the previous post, exactly as expected of a sore loser. Not hard to guess who's been doing it virtually every time I've stated my opinion of Deneve. Keep it up for all I care, doesn't make Dr. Deneve any more popular.

So someone is automatically a sore loser if they are offended by you saying that Deneve, Helen, and Miria should die?

Cause that makes SO much sense.

I think that you are the one who is a sore loser.
However, I am not the one who neg repped you. I can't rep you right now. So whoever neg repped you probably was even more annoyed by your post than I was.
But really it's pointless to even neg rep you. You are just another hater. You will never change no matter what happens.
So whoever neg repped him should just give up. You can't do anything to change his opinions, however negative they are.
---------------
On a more relative topic, I think that Priscilla is faster than hysteria. As much as dislike how strong Yagi made her (Priscilla), she would have to be faster than Hysteria.

[MalakTawus]

Originally Posted by murikibishii

I'm proud to report that the Deneve diehard has quickly given me anonymous negative rep for the previous post, exactly as expected of a sore loser. Not hard to guess who's been doing it virtually every time I've stated my opinion of Deneve. Keep it up for all I care, doesn't make Dr. Deneve any more popular.


Nice, let's focus on a particular word in my post instead of any of the points I made. Too convoluted means too full of asspulls that fail rational comprehension and break suspension of disbelief. For example the invisible-until-told magic hair I mentioned. I hope that answers it, because I'm not going to repeat all the asspull complaints people have already made around here.

And you are surprised that you got a negative rep from that post? LOL.

I took tons of negative reps lately,the last one was for this post:

There is a very good reason why in this arc almost no one dies, it's because the ghosts have basically made their top priority to save everyone they can,and if you think about it,the ghosts are a group of warriors where the weakest one is still a strong single digit level,it's quite obvious that they'll have great results imo.

It you take away the ghosts' savings you'll see that there would have been a good amount of deaths even in this second arc.
Saying that, the rebels are now in a situation where also the ghosts' determination won't be enough to save everyone,so i'm quite sure we'll have some deaths now.

I was accused of trolling,lol, i guess he/she doesn't even know what the hell it means "trolling".
My suggestion: simply don't care for the rep system when the one that gives neg rep doesn't even have the decency to put a sign (99% ot the times ),incredibly pathetic imo......so in conclusion why should you care for the judgment of someone that act like a little kid?

If instead you care for the rep system for something similar to the "collector-feeling" unfortunately there is little that can be done.

Anyway, about your post, i surely disagree almost on everything about what you said () but i won't repeat the reasons since i already made too many posts about Deneve,lol.
....but just to be clear, i wasn't the one that gave you neg rep 'cause if i'll ever give one (iirc i think i never did it) i sure as hell will put my sign on it....and obviously it won't be just because i have a different opinion about a certain topic.

[murikibishii]

Oh sure Teresa4ever, I'm a hater because I hate it when certain characters are given infinite lives in return for narrating for the author. I wouldn't want Deneve, Helen and now Miria to die if they weren't constantly used as crappy plot devices instead of real characters with words and actions that come from character development and not plot convenience. Why should I want the dike Dr. Deneve to live when she only spouts talking points by Yagi and is used to prevent everyone else from getting serious hits? Why would I want her sidekick Helen who I'd probably dislike less than Deneve if she wasn't also tied into the same crappy scheme of immortality for narration? Why would I want Miria who's been pulling every crappy move possible and shouldn't be alive now or at least should be awakened? You don't get one bit of my reasons why I want them dead yet you talk big about how I'm so awful. I guess I'm supposed to be grateful that you couldn't give me negative rep like you did in the past, because if you can't give it to me now you must have negative repped me before based on what you just said. Next time put your name to it if you're such an upstanding non-hating citizen, why don't you.

MalakTawus, I was completely unsurprised by that rep because I've been getting it from the same person almost every time I say my opinion here. I never thought it was you who negative repped me today and I have no problem with you disagreeing. I appreciate your candor I'm sorry someone gave you negative rep for that post that you didn't deserve. It's pretty obvious who's been repping me so I'm not suspecting everyone who disagrees with me. I also didn't think it was Teresa4ever. I don't care that much about the rep system but if the same person keeps giving me negative rep every single time I'm here just because they don't like my opinion that's extremely childish and they shouldn't get away with it without anyone knowing but me. That's why I brought it up. Sorry for blowing up but this nonsense with that repper always personally attacking me for my opinion is not normal. I get plenty of positive rep for what I say so it's not like I'm alone in my opinion.