AnimeSuki Forums

Ultramarinus · 2009-08-27, 16:16

And I'm saying that when you make such a comment and afterward, when presented some information, responding with a "I can't bother with thinking about it, sorry" comes as disrespect. If you're going to present an opinion that's butting into somebody's discussion, you better back it up or get prepared for some flames. I still wouldn't say this if you didn't act like you knew it all without giving a single meaningful reply.

If you say you didn't see any development, I guess we didn't watch the same show. Not really a subjective matter since it's not the amount that's being discussed.

Many characters, yeah, every single character? No. Not that I consider Regios to be a superb anime or its characters on average, but it can still bury big production balloons like Eden of the East in that department. (it was done by my favorite production company as well, I still don't hold any punches when I see things to criticize)

I'm alright with people disagreeing, it's the spirit of the whole forum discussion business after all. But disrupting progressing and meaningful discussions like this requires something to back it up. "I don't think it deserves thinking" doesn't cut it. Let's leave it at that.

BetoJR · 2009-08-27, 19:47

Let's. It's obviously poor form to discuss the (de)merits of one's favorite character, after all - I surely did not want to aggravate the fanbase. I'm very sorry for participating in the discussion, which is obviously only meant to praise Nina, after all - it's her thread, right?
And, also, sorry for not rising up to your standards - but I wouldn't really compare the characters presented on this show with the ones on Eden of The East, myself... also another subjective discussion. And one I'm loathe to participate in, myself.

Just one final point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

If you say you didn't see any development, I guess we didn't watch the same show. Not really a subjective matter since it's not the amount that's being discussed.

I'm very sorry, but that's ENTIRELY subjective. Completely open to one's interpretation of the events and the characters. Where do you come off saying that it's not the "amount" of character development that's being discussed? THAT'S the whole point! I didn't see any development! I, me, myself! Hello? Entirely subjective, you see...

I'm more than happy enough to leave it at that, but with the provision you acknowledge the whole subjective nature of the argument, that's all.

And, who knows, maybe we didn't watch the same show, after all. The one I did, had an interesting character named Nina, who was a noble and righteous defender and went on to be exactly that - and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Some stories are driven by the characters, while some are driven by the plot. I felt this was more the later than the former. You didn't? More power to you. But don't tell me what I have to take out of a series, thank you very much.

Ultramarinus · 2009-08-27, 22:18

You're welcome to discuss, as long as you present a case. That was what I have been criticizing all along, you didn't go farther than saying that you won't bother to think. Yet you still try to weigh down your opinion, disregarding what people have put forward. It's the base common courtesy in a discussion forum to actually bother to think and put a valid argument that goes beyond "you're wrong, I'm right".

It's not the place to discuss another anime's characters here indeed, not that I'd bother discussing such synthetic characters with no merits in its own forum but I'll leave it at that as well.

We have presented the events and the whole thread includes dozens of posts about how the character's view on situations changes. You need more than "I didn't see any" to counter those, not to mention the events of the anime itself.

I think the previous one played a bigger role in this show, now that's a subjective matter. Nobody's telling you to take anything out of a series, all I say is that diving into a discussion and then promoting your viewpoint with nothing more than "I think, I saw, I feel" doesn't provide you an argument to stand on, while other people are pointing out to real facts based on the topic itself.

Anyways, I think that's all to be said about this matter by me.

BetoJR · 2009-08-28, 04:44

And what you're doing does not fall into the category of "I think, I saw, I feel"?

I think you're judging with two standards, here. The only thing you did was list the happenings of the show, in relation to the character. Not a single one of your examples - and I really do not care to go back to the very convoluted discussions between other posters, like you and TruKnight, for instance, as I was only responding to statements made in the last couple of pages - does hold any paradigm shifts for Nina, and I still hold to my impression that she was essentially the same character at the beginning and the end of the anime.

But, whatever, mine is clearly not a valid expression, when it's to disagree with you, and not see such a deep, complex character in a better light, because I just can't be bothered to look, right?

Tah-dah!

Ultramarinus · 2009-08-28, 12:29

I 'point out' to what happened in the anime, which is the evidence of my argument itself. You're going against it with mere denial, as in all those posts, you have yet to say anything beyond your view with no basis to support it. If you really think that an opinion with no backing up should be regarded on the same grounds with concrete arguments, you should step back and reconsider what a discussion is all about.

BetoJR · 2009-08-28, 18:30

That's okay, then. I do not really need your validation, to speak my mind in a public forum - as long as I do not behave in a bad manner, anyway.

But you make the assumption that you did provide "concrete arguments". To me, all you did was recite points from the anime, like you posted - points which, to me, do not denote evidence of character growth or complexity. Once again, we come to the subjectiveness of the experience: You cannot force someone to see the same thing you do, in regards to interpretative matters. I saw the same anime you did, and I took away from it something different than you. End of story.

justinstrife · 2009-08-29, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetoJR

That's okay, then. I do not really need your validation, to speak my mind in a public forum - as long as I do not behave in a bad manner, anyway.

But you make the assumption that you did provide "concrete arguments". To me, all you did was recite points from the anime, like you posted - points which, to me, do not denote evidence of character growth or complexity. Once again, we come to the subjectiveness of the experience: You cannot force someone to see the same thing you do, in regards to interpretative matters. I saw the same anime you did, and I took away from it something different than you. End of story.

Ultra gets mighty defensive when anyone criticizes his dear Nina-chan.

I tried watching the show again from the beginning, but her scenes just made me want to scrape my fingernails across a chalkboard.

She was as annoying as I'd remembered her. And very deserving of my least liked character in the show.

Ultramarinus · 2009-08-30, 01:06

He wasn't criticizing her in the first place, you could have avoided that fail by reading the messages.

willyvereb · 2009-08-30, 02:29

Well, your discussion/argument with BetoJR was somewhat a bit meaningless though.
@Justinfire: just try and read the light novels as I adviced. I guess she seems really different. She's forcefull, but always considers the good of others first.(well it's somewhat true to the anime version, but she's too controlled by her emotions there+respects honor above everything...not like the LN version).
But you can join in and state your opinions. I often enjoy talking somone with differing opinions. They nearly always have their own truthsthat I failed to realise, even if they're notso significant ones.

satomianzaki · 2009-08-30, 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Ultra gets mighty defensive when anyone criticizes his dear Nina-chan.

i guess if you're the knight of Sheryl from Macross Frontier then Ultra is the knight of Nina in Regios...

and i very much like both characters...

...

just passing by...hehe...

justinstrife · 2009-08-30, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Well, your discussion/argument with BetoJR was somewhat a bit meaningless though.
@Justinfire: just try and read the light novels as I adviced. I guess she seems really different. She's forcefull, but always considers the good of others first.(well it's somewhat true to the anime version, but she's too controlled by her emotions there+respects honor above everything...not like the LN version).
But you can join in and state your opinions. I often enjoy talking somone with differing opinions. They nearly always have their own truthsthat I failed to realise, even if they're notso significant ones.

I do need to read the light novels, as it sounds the characters are quite a bit different from their anime counterparts. Who knows, I might actually like her in the novels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by satomianzaki

i guess if you're the knight of Sheryl from Macross Frontier then Ultra is the knight of Nina in Regios...

and i very much like both characters...

...

just passing by...hehe...

Nina and Sheryl are not comparable. Not by a longshot.

willyvereb · 2009-08-30, 12:40

You're right. If anything they explain Nina's actions well in the Light Novels so she's unmistakenably not selfish and a good natured person. Man, for Layfon she's almost a walking and living saint there.
And yes, anyone dares to compare her(Nina) to the all-too-awesome-godess Galactic Fairy faces Tak's inquisition and full company of Sheryl Marines.

xD

But seriously. They're quite different.Both are really strong and determined but Sheryl's much more mature.

BetoJR · 2009-08-30, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

He wasn't criticizing her in the first place, you could have avoided that fail by reading the messages.

Yeap, I was criticizing the fans' arguments, not the character - which was one of my favorites in the series, by the way.

satomianzaki · 2009-08-31, 09:44

fyi guys, i'm not comparing sheryl with nina... of course, they're very much incomparable...

and willy, you don't fight with you're comrade right? i just joined the battleship of sheryl so that makes me her knight too...ahem...hehe...

just to be clear, nina is my most favorite female character in regios and sheryl in macross frontier...

okay, carry on...

2009-08-27, 16:16	Link #241
Ultramarinus Disputatio exaro nex Join Date: May 2009 Location: Turkey Age: 40	And I'm saying that when you make such a comment and afterward, when presented some information, responding with a "I can't bother with thinking about it, sorry" comes as disrespect. If you're going to present an opinion that's butting into somebody's discussion, you better back it up or get prepared for some flames. I still wouldn't say this if you didn't act like you knew it all without giving a single meaningful reply. If you say you didn't see any development, I guess we didn't watch the same show. Not really a subjective matter since it's not the amount that's being discussed. Many characters, yeah, every single character? No. Not that I consider Regios to be a superb anime or its characters on average, but it can still bury big production balloons like Eden of the East in that department. (it was done by my favorite production company as well, I still don't hold any punches when I see things to criticize) I'm alright with people disagreeing, it's the spirit of the whole forum discussion business after all. But disrupting progressing and meaningful discussions like this requires something to back it up. "I don't think it deserves thinking" doesn't cut it. Let's leave it at that.

2009-08-27, 22:18	Link #243
Ultramarinus Disputatio exaro nex Join Date: May 2009 Location: Turkey Age: 40	You're welcome to discuss, as long as you present a case. That was what I have been criticizing all along, you didn't go farther than saying that you won't bother to think. Yet you still try to weigh down your opinion, disregarding what people have put forward. It's the base common courtesy in a discussion forum to actually bother to think and put a valid argument that goes beyond "you're wrong, I'm right". It's not the place to discuss another anime's characters here indeed, not that I'd bother discussing such synthetic characters with no merits in its own forum but I'll leave it at that as well. We have presented the events and the whole thread includes dozens of posts about how the character's view on situations changes. You need more than "I didn't see any" to counter those, not to mention the events of the anime itself. I think the previous one played a bigger role in this show, now that's a subjective matter. Nobody's telling you to take anything out of a series, all I say is that diving into a discussion and then promoting your viewpoint with nothing more than "I think, I saw, I feel" doesn't provide you an argument to stand on, while other people are pointing out to real facts based on the topic itself. Anyways, I think that's all to be said about this matter by me.

2009-08-28, 12:29	Link #245
Ultramarinus Disputatio exaro nex Join Date: May 2009 Location: Turkey Age: 40	I 'point out' to what happened in the anime, which is the evidence of my argument itself. You're going against it with mere denial, as in all those posts, you have yet to say anything beyond your view with no basis to support it. If you really think that an opinion with no backing up should be regarded on the same grounds with concrete arguments, you should step back and reconsider what a discussion is all about.

2009-08-30, 01:06	Link #248
Ultramarinus Disputatio exaro nex Join Date: May 2009 Location: Turkey Age: 40	He wasn't criticizing her in the first place, you could have avoided that fail by reading the messages.

2009-08-30, 02:29	Link #249
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	Well, your discussion/argument with BetoJR was somewhat a bit meaningless though. @Justinfire: just try and read the light novels as I adviced. I guess she seems really different. She's forcefull, but always considers the good of others first.(well it's somewhat true to the anime version, but she's too controlled by her emotions there+respects honor above everything...not like the LN version). But you can join in and state your opinions. I often enjoy talking somone with differing opinions. They nearly always have their own truthsthat I failed to realise, even if they're notso significant ones.

2009-08-30, 12:40	Link #252
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	You're right. If anything they explain Nina's actions well in the Light Novels so she's unmistakenably not selfish and a good natured person. Man, for Layfon she's almost a walking and living saint there. And yes, anyone dares to compare her(Nina) to the all-too-awesome-godess Galactic Fairy faces Tak's inquisition and full company of Sheryl Marines. xD But seriously. They're quite different.Both are really strong and determined but Sheryl's much more mature.

2009-08-31, 09:44	Link #254
satomianzaki Senior Member Join Date: May 2009	fyi guys, i'm not comparing sheryl with nina... of course, they're very much incomparable... and willy, you don't fight with you're comrade right? i just joined the battleship of sheryl so that makes me her knight too...ahem...hehe... just to be clear, nina is my most favorite female character in regios and sheryl in macross frontier... okay, carry on...