2011-01-08, 21:42 | Link #421 | |
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Perhaps this is the secret in creating super powerful railguns? No wonder the outside world have weaker technology! They have been getting it all wrong! You know, technically we have never seen block one of Accelerator's I-beams... But Touma did negate a wall of earth created by his vector controlled Black wings...
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2011-01-08, 21:51 | Link #422 | |
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Stiyl is pissed at touma for unknown reasons. Stiyl gets a metal ball out of nowhere. Stiyl puts magic fire on it and throws it at touma. touma gets rid of supernatural fire but his hand burns since the natural schorching metal on the ball cant be negated. he gets rid of supernatural lightning but the natural laws of physics and heat still stay. Now i trust the author of the novels since he never really exaggerates some stuff based on the real world. If this railgun situation were to happen and touma negated it unscathed by the coin, he would give an exact reason why |
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2011-01-08, 22:08 | Link #423 | |
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Going by my theory, the immediate effect of the fire, which is the heat it produces that gets transferred into the metal ball, would be negated as well. But if the metal ball gets melted by that heat, it wouldn't be restored. Oh, and if Stiyl somehow had launched that metal ball instead of throwing it manually, yup the forces that's produced gets negated too. Why do I say this? Because Touma was never hurt by Stiyl's fire, which would imply that the heat produce from the flames were also negated upon touching his hand- otherwise it would definitely burn the skin.
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2011-01-08, 23:04 | Link #424 |
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its 5000 degrees Celsius. Metal are like butter compare to it but Touma is unharmed by the extreme heat. I can still see that Mikoto's railgun with her power acting on it when she fires the railgun so it will be cancel and even the force produced by the power. She didn't throw it manually. She used her ability to throw it. It's different from Accelerator which only change up the direction of vector and powered it up or concentrate it. Two things are different because their is initial power in Accelerator and Mikoto's attack doesn't had that.
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2011-01-08, 23:17 | Link #425 | |
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The only reason I can think of that would fit into my theory is that he's transferring an existing, naturally occuring force into those objects. Say for example, the rotation of the Earth? I don't know... If Imagine Breaker can negate the transfer, would the force simply disappear? Return back to origin? Or just carry on?
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2011-01-08, 23:21 | Link #426 |
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so u guys r saying that the movement of the coin is ONLY because of the electricity and because thats the only reason why its moving it'll will stop.
to make it simple electric power=power source or as another example a solar power car. sun=power car=coin once sun is gone car stops. |
2011-01-08, 23:34 | Link #428 | |
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Otherwise okay look, magnetism is another application or product of her electricity right? If Imagine Breaker doesn't negate the immediate effects like heat or in this case magnetism, then even Mikoto's Iron Sand whip would slice right through him because "The magnetic forces produce from the supernatural electricity is natural physics", and so it's rotation/vibration force would still exist. Which we know isn't the case, Imagine Breaker protected Touma just fine.
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2011-01-08, 23:38 | Link #429 | |
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2011-01-08, 23:42 | Link #430 | |
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Case in point, the last episode of Railgun anime had her applying more force into an already launched Railgun.
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2011-01-08, 23:45 | Link #432 |
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but the force that make the coin move is a by product of her ability. Plus look at the coin itself or the when she fires the railgun. The line of electricity and the after effect of electricity in the path proves it. The line of electricity still revolves in the coin. It's different from your railgun in real world.
It will because the same as the iron sand. Turn into normal sand and disperse. But for railgun. It will just become normal coin.
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2011-01-08, 23:55 | Link #433 | |
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Originally I didn't like the idea of Touma blocking Railguns, even if he had superhuman reflexes. The issue of the residue force would remain. But then the topic of the Golem gets brought up and stuff like Stiyl's fire and what not... Then I start to wonder, what if all those forces are actually considered supernatural themselves even though they sort of follow physics, then that would solve everything and suddenly stopping Railguns doesn't seem so Far-Fletch either...
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2011-01-09, 00:06 | Link #434 | |
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Mikotos coin is, in our pov since it hasn't been shown in the novels, able to be stopped since its heat and speed are in a state of supernatural since its controlled by the electricity and heated by it. The coins physical change(science term) can't be changed though. All in all Salt don't blame the author for something he did't do. He's a great author in my opinion since he is constant in releases and explains everything with pinpoint accuracy. Though being honest u should hang in there for the rest of the season cuz in my opinion it gets a bit more adult like near the end of this season. |
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2011-01-09, 03:39 | Link #436 | |||
the cynic
Join Date: Nov 2006
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/sigh
After several pages of back and forth, we still can't nail down things precisely. This is why I say his world's "rule set" lacks rigour. Quote:
I appreciate your attempt to explain it, but it does not quite fix the problems I have with his "rule set". The thing is I consider the movement of the coin an "after effect". The force generated by the electricity is supernatural that I can accept. The speed/kinetic energy obtain from the acceleration is completely natural IMO. It all boils down to what you consider an "after-effect", which seemed to be arbitrarily determined by the author to fit the plot. This is not what I consider "internally consistent". This also isn't the only beef I have with the anime. The lack of character development of Touma and Index after the first arc. Touma being uninteresting... PS: I kind of feel like an ass ratting on people favourite show with my complaining all the time too. Quote:
But never gave an exactly definition, nor a way to determine, as to what is considered "Immediate effects" and what is a "Secondary result". The author basically assigns "events" to either category base on what he feels is convenient for the plot, with no consistent rule delineating the 2 categories - and this is what I meant by "vague; the rule is vague and poorly defined. Quote:
I love it for the character design and creative setting but ... @ALL To add on to what I said, let's me put it this way : If Misaka turned off her power somewhere between the moment it leaves her hand and before it hit's Touma's, the coin will still be moving. Think a car, just because you take your foot of the accelerator doesn't mean the car just stops immediately. Misaka's ability is to "step on the accelerator" via her control of electricity, because that is technically what electricity in a railgun does, accelerate the projectile.
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Last edited by Salt; 2011-01-09 at 04:53. |
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2011-01-09, 10:42 | Link #437 | ||
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Touma did negate all Mikoto's attack for 2 hours, quoting Vol. 1, Chapter 1, part 5:
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2011-01-09, 10:48 | Link #438 | |
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Story & Art: Motoi Fuyukawa |
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2011-01-09, 11:59 | Link #439 | |
the cynic
Join Date: Nov 2006
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As I said to chao, the author doesn't delineate between supernatural/immediate effects (which can be cancelled) and "after" effects (which can't be cancelled) in any way that can considered consistent. In fact the line is arbitrarily determined to suit the plot. What can I say, if a work doesn't grab me, I'm not going to fight it. Logical inconsistencies like this bug the hell out of me, and in this case "cheapens" things to some extend. Not to mention this isn't the only problem I have with the work. As I said, I also don't want to keep crapping on the fun of people who do enjoy the show.
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2011-01-09, 14:19 | Link #440 |
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As it was said, in the original novel, Touma never stopped a railgun.
And as far as I saw in the anime and read the novel . The 'line' you're talking about is respected. Touma couldn't block the sringers Accelerator sent at him with Vector Control. Whether he used his power to accelerate his speed or increase its momentum, Touma knew ( let's say he isn't dumb huh? ) the kynetic energy gained wouldn't disappear. That's why he 'dodged' them and not used his power. Just like he didn't destroyed the golem because the stone would fall on him since they are real As for the railgun. For physics reasons, I don't see IB blocking a Railgun. The electromagnetical field is situated in Mikoto's hand and is only used as a trigger. Once threw, she can't interfer with the coin anymore. but whatever. *I didn't follow all the discussion. I only answer after reading the page more or less. |
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