Medaka Box [Manga]

[Wolfenstein]

Well, yeah, you're right. If we're being technical.

But, really, I feel as though the word "hate" has already been bastardized enough on the internet so that it really is just an expression of strong dislike anyways, and not the orthodox, focused rage and contempt that we used to know.

I dunno. It seems that people aren't as hesitant to say it as you'd think.

But that's off-topic.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

Well, yeah, you're right. If we're being technical.

But, really, I feel as though the word "hate" has already been bastardized enough on the internet so that it really is just an expression of strong dislike anyways, and not the orthodox, focused rage and contempt that we used to know.

I dunno. It seems that people aren't as hesitant to say it as you'd think.

But that's off-topic.

I think rather than that it comes more from a person not wanting to admit to their bias, and appear to be more impartial than they really are. E.g they don't want to be seen as a "hater". Likely because how easily terms such as fanboi's and the opposite are so easily flailed about.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

I think rather than that it comes more from a person not wanting to admit to their bias, and appear to be more impartial than they really are. E.g they don't want to be seen as a "hater". Likely because how easily terms such as fanboi's and the opposite are so easily flailed about.

Exactly. Everyone's a critic after all, and I've found that people rarely want to admit they dislike a character just because they dislike them, so they come up with justifications for hating them that sound rational, so they won't be another 'hater'.

[Wolfenstein]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

I think rather than that it comes more from a person not wanting to admit to their bias, and appear to be more impartial than they really are. E.g they don't want to be seen as a "hater". Likely because how easily terms such as fanboi's and the opposite are so easily flailed about.

Could you re-phrase? I don't quite understand how this relates to my previous post, but I'm curious as to what you mean.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

Could you re-phrase? I don't quite understand how this relates to my previous post, but I'm curious as to what you mean.

Umm I think the reason why people are hesistant to use the word hate is it basically puts their bias out in the open, to hate a character is irrational to some degree meaning it basically comes down to personal bias towards a certain character. You can dislike a character and still in the minds of some people (e.g yourself...) come off as reasonably impartial, as in you dislike mostly due to supposedly logical reasons rather than it simply coming down to preferrence. The more you express a like or dislike towards to something the more your bias towards a certain something shows and people sometimes don't like that bias showing as it leaves them liable to be called a fanboi or a hater (not neccesary those specific words but rather the implacation of those words). Those sorts of people have negative connotations because they are seen as people that can't be reasoned with and they're opinions biased. (all opinions are biased but somehow people see them as moreso).

There's also the fact that like Endscape stated everyones a critic, it's hard to "objectively" display why something you don't like in the manga is bad if it's obvious a certain part or a large part of your dislike against it is simply a biased preference due to illogical reasons (like something just rubs you the wrong way), so they downplay their biased dislike in order to come off as "objectively" right. When honestly nothing is objectively right.

Can't really explain it much better than that I think, sorry.

[Wolfenstein]

I don't know. I don't 100% agree with the fact that people are so hesitant to use and abuse the word, though I can agree to most of what you said. Tbh, the word "hate" gives me nearly no pause whatsoever on the internet nowadays, certainly not to the level you're describing. Although in this certain case, you might as well just label it "strong dislike" to avoid confusion.

But hey, maybe that's just me. I'm not that big on forums anyways. I mostly just lurk. I've only really interacted with very few ones(like this one).

[telamont]

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

I'm not hard, really. All he has to do is tell me I'm mis-interpreting, and my question is anwsered.

You're misinterpreting. I seriously do not think I sounded that bad. But if I did then...

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

Maybe your hatred of the pairing is just spilling to the side you dislike more.

That's probably it. I do find Medaka an unusual main character I haven't seen before, and consequently, interesting to follow. More so than Zenkichi anway, who follows all the classic shonen tropes.

Besides, if she weren't so over the top a protagonist, I probably wouldn't have gotten the awesome Kumagawa and the godly Ajimu to be her foils. So for that I'll always be thankful.

[DawnEmperor]

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

Could you re-phrase? I don't quite understand how this relates to my previous post, but I'm curious as to what you mean.

I think it varies with people; hate indeed is a rather broad term; does it mean they simply find the character boring, do they despise the character and wish them misery, etc.

Well I admit I'm guilty of it as well(coming up with "rational reasons" to dislike a character). Yeah a person can have reasons but they're still their own reasons, not necessarily indisputable fact or interpretation.

I admit I have had shifting views of Kumagawa. Sometimes I think he's interesting in how blunt he is, other times it seems like he's pulling random shit in hopes of it being entertaining, when it's really just doing the same thing over again.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by telamont

You're misinterpreting. I seriously do not think I sounded that bad. But if I did then...



That's probably it. I do find Medaka an unusual main character I haven't seen before, and consequently, interesting to follow. More so than Zenkichi anway, who follows all the classic shonen tropes.

Besides, if she weren't so over the top a protagonist, I probably wouldn't have gotten the awesome Kumagawa and the godly Ajimu to be her foils. So for that I'll always be thankful.

Meh I suppose you enjoy them anti-climatic battles and deus ex machina's. Bah different strokes for different folks. Though Medaka is a fairly common character type in shounens, probably seen her character type several times and they were mostly identical though thats mostly my opinion. Not so much in shounen jump, but I've seen many a story where boy falls in love with "perfect" strong girl who loves to to fight. TBF actually I'm quite sick of that story due to how common it is, usually because the male lead is pathetic as shit, and it seems impossible for the author to do two reasonably good main characters. That or he goes out of his way to make the female charaacter a bit too much of a mary sue.

[Wolfenstein]

Originally Posted by telamont

You're misinterpreting. I seriously do not think I sounded that bad. But if I did then...

Cool. Glad to know.

Originally Posted by telamont

That's probably it. I do find Medaka an unusual main character I haven't seen before, and consequently, interesting to follow. More so than Zenkichi anway, who follows all the classic shonen tropes.

Besides, if she weren't so over the top a protagonist, I probably wouldn't have gotten the awesome Kumagawa and the godly Ajimu to be her foils. So for that I'll always be thankful.

I'm somewhat surprised.

One would suppose the manga would lead anyone to think the exact opposite. After all, being a vortex for shounen tropes in the manga has always been Medaka's job, and being the anti-thesis to shounen tropes has been Zenkichi's job since chapter 123. I mean, really, all it takes for me is one glimpse at their "personalities", their skills, as the manga puts it.

Different inpterpretations, I guess. Not going to say mine is correct, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think it was.

[Homura7]

Just to remind you in case you don't know, the Graduation Ceremony that is about to take place isn't Medaka and Zen's among others.

[DawnEmperor]

It's Kumagawa's year? Or Munakata?

[Homura7]

Kumagawa is one year older than Medaka, though I don't recall how that applies to High School.

[Wolfenstein]

Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo

Kumagawa is one year older than Medaka, though I don't recall how that applies to High School.

In the manga, during the Election arc, it was said that the next graduation was going to be his, so I guess that does apply.

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

In the manga, during the Election arc, it was said that the next graduation was going to be his, so I guess that does apply.

Spoiler for oops:

So once again he can't win.

[kenjtr]

Is t medakas happiest time in her life should be the time when zenkichi proposed to her ? It seems battles are the only thing medaka lives for .

[Guernsey]

Originally Posted by kenjtr

Is t medakas happiest time in her life should be the time when zenkichi proposed to her ? It seems battles are the only thing medaka lives for .

She is a shonen hero and that is what shonen heroes do most.

[kenjtr]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

She is a shonen hero and that is what shonen heroes do most.

Still thats a little too sad since luffy is enjoying his adventures but he also treassures the time he spents in his ship with his friends also he really doesnt get involved if its something that doesnt concern him , unlike that medaka looks for trouble all time and she doesnt enjoy simple joys of life at all . Both medaka and luffy are shounen heros but i like luffy when i hate medaka also i think medaka is the disgrace of all shounen heros , not that because she is a women but because she is a bitch .

[Homura7]

^I'm unable to understand one single word of what you just said. Medaka is rather legit. A disgraceful main would be someone like Ichigo from Bleach, the worst shounen with the worst hero I've ever read.

But I won't further enter in these comparisons.

[DawnEmperor]

@Kurusu You hate Ichigo? Granted, I'm not a huge fan of him either, but I wouldn't say he's the worst hero i've ever read.

Throwing my two cents regarding Medaka Box overall, I think part of the problem is that as a parody and deconstruction, it does have to take a specific route. Medaka's parody of the shonen hero is merely one kind of shonen hero. Even as one of the most prevalent kinds of heroes, a hero or protagonist isn't something which can be easily pigeonholed, so sometimes it verges on shallow parody. Yes, being the main character affords certain privileges(since it is their story), but there's really no guarantee what kind of story they get.

I view Medaka and Zenkichi as something of a deconstruction and reconstruction of heroic archetypes. Medaka has been endowed with a lot as a protagonist, being near invincible, talented in everything, and by the end of the series has learned empathy. But gradually she realizes that she doesn't really have a concrete goal that's truly hers so has to search for it. Zenkichi embodies the hard-working character without natural talent, who may never take the spotlight but has his own victories, and gradually becomes someone who can support others in addition to Medaka.