(L) Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou [WN]

[El Rue]

Mmm, I don't remember where it was said that the rabbit was stronger than the Behemoth...

About the holes, it probably wasn't a simple circle hole (since the dungeon materials were a bit special) where the wolf can move a bit & try to jump or dig out. It could have been a very tight fit (also non-smooth/rough one with protrusions & all) that really immobilized the creature (like cracking/breaking the ground enough for something hole or pit like maybe?).

Also I think the spear he made was shaped/designed kinda' something like this

Spoiler:

Would have made drilling into them "easier" for a one armed person pushing all his weight at it...A very slow & painful death.

[Cinocard]

There was actually a brief comparison between the behemoth and the rabbit.

The wolves just sucked ball though. Didn't have enough power to get out of the hole; didn't have enough speed to react against the trap; didn't have the instinct to avoid it in the first place (hell, they basically got caught 4 times). They were deliberately made so weak, so that Hajime had a chance to survive. Basically another plot armor, just not as obvious as the God crystal.

It was a small issue though. What I really had qualm with is in how fast Hajime managed to clear the dungeon. I had thought at least 1-2 years would be appropriate. That would raise the value of the relationship between him and Yue too. Rescue her in Orcus and journeyed together for a few years in the Abyss would have been so nice, but it turned out to be a 4-week-trip. Dude cleared like 3,4 floors in a day. Even a RPG like SAO took longer than that to reach floor 80.

[El Rue]

I don't know...I found a lot it reasonable enough. The wolves seemed to be not that strong individually as seen from the rabbit fight (wolves are known to cooperate in large packs as well, plus those fought in the town defense were only troublesome because of their specific ability), normal weapons like swords probably won't pierce them easily as seen from his struggle to kill them.

Even if the wolf can sense him he probably hid quite well, like making a false wall (with a small peeping hole) or hiding in a natural looking rock box out of sight/scent or something.

His broken power leveling method (admitted repeatedly throughout the story that it "broke the rules" & common sense) as well as his "modern" fantasy powered weapons was for me acceptable enough reasons for his quick dungeon run.


The God Crystal is obviously a McGuffin of plot survival though.

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by Cinocard

It was a small issue though. What I really had qualm with is in how fast Hajime managed to clear the dungeon. I had thought at least 1-2 years would be appropriate. That would raise the value of the relationship between him and Yue too. Rescue her in Orcus and journeyed together for a few years in the Abyss would have been so nice, but it turned out to be a 4-week-trip. Dude cleared like 3,4 floors in a day. Even a RPG like SAO took longer than that to reach floor 80.

Are you sure it was only 4 weeks? I was pretty sure it was 2 months and then another month spent in Orcus' House.

[Ophis]

Originally Posted by Cinocard

Super late reply, but here goes.

Transmuting diamond simply should take more time and magic power than transmuting dirt. Transmuting in a large volume similarly should take more time and power.

I remember he trapped FOUR wolves. This implies he transmuted so fast, opening and reclosing the pit hole, not only the wolves couldn't react to jump out of it. They couldn't even make a howl to alarm their pack.

No, they reacted. The reason why the wolves were successfully trapped is because Hajime ambushed them, and they were confused to encounter something new. And yes, the first wolf did indeed howl and the rest of his group noticed.

Spoiler for Chapter 9:

It harbored doubts, when he put in the effort to raise from his prone position, it heard one of its packmate scream. Restlessness was conveyed from one wolf that was near the companion that disappeared.

Originally Posted by Cinocard

The wolves could not break out of the pit. This implies he reinforces the cover with earth thick enough to counter their struggle. The rabbit, albeit stronger, smashed his stone wall with ease. How could the wolves not manage to at least dig out?

First off, the rabbit broke Hajime's wall with a charging flying kick. The wolves were trapped in an all-encompassing wall made of hard rocks without space to move their bodies. See the difference? If you have the bare minimum of understanding about living bodies you'll get it. Besides, the wolves are not strength oriented demons.

Spoiler for Chapter 9:

His transmuting was more quick, more accurate and more extensive now. If he went out right now, he might die. He had accumulated training when he was in the room with the God’s Crystal. Hajime wanted to polish his weapon even if slightly, and of course his weapon is transmutation.

See? Hajime's transmutation was better than the time against the rabbit.

Originally Posted by Cinocard

Hajime drilled the spear through the wolves using his weight - a gradual process. The wolves though, failed to even break the earthen spear.

How the hell would the wolves break his spear? Praying? The wolves couldn't move, they were completely trapped, like a human buried in sand.

Originally Posted by Cinocard

Need me remind you that this is the Abyss, and the fucking rabbit was evaluated to be stronger than the Behemoth. Behemoth yo. Even if much weaker, the wolves were supposed to be levels ahead of Hajime. It would only make sense if they could gnash iron and smash boulders. In the end 4 of them died from the earth box of somebody much lower level than them. It's like playing RPG and expecting your level 5 Earth shield to hold up against a level 50 mob.

Sigh...you either did not bother to read the chapter properly or did not understand any of it. Hajime trapped the wolves in the walls, not inside an earth box made on the spot. Seriously, go read the novel again

Hajime was able to stall the Behemoth with a half-assed transmutation desperately created in the middle of combat, which covered only parts of the Behemoth's body. Not only did Hajime improve his transmutation, but actually used the dungeon wall itself as a cage, and without even room to move, there's no way that the wolves, who are physically weaker then the Behemoth, would be able to escape.

PS: By the way, why the hell am I even discussing and explaining this no-brainer simple logic?

[Cinocard]

Originally Posted by Xacual

Are you sure it was only 4 weeks? I was pretty sure it was 2 months and then another month spent in Orcus' House.

Oh, I was counting the time they spent to clear 100 floors, not the time stayed in Oscar house. They stayed in the house for 2 months, I believe, though I can't remember exactly how much time it took them for the 100 floors now either.

Edit: I just checked. Hajime and Yue did stayed in Oscar abode for 2 months. When Aiko met them again 4 month had passed since he fell. That left 2 months for clearing 2 dungeons, fnished the Haulia business and travel to Brook town twice.

you either did not bother to read the chapter properly or did not understand any of it. Hajime trapped the wolves in the walls, not inside an earth box made on the spot.

You don't know what figurative speech means do you...When I say an Earth box I did not mean he literally created a box and put it in the middle of the dungeon. See the word "pit hole" and such that I used? Seriously...

[Cinocard]

Originally Posted by Ophis

First off, the rabbit broke Hajime's wall with a charging flying kick. The wolves were trapped in an all-encompassing wall made of hard rocks without space to move their bodies. See the difference? If you have the bare minimum of understanding about living bodies you'll get it. Besides, the wolves are not strength oriented demons.

Oh man, I can't believe I actually bother to reread the thing. Here goes:

Spoiler for Space:

Slowly the rabbit stood up with a slack attitude, after it continued its assault. Hajime quickly constructed a stone wall with his transmutation. Stone wall met the rabbit’s kick and easily the kick pierced through it.

So no charging flying kick there.

No, they reacted. The reason why the wolves were successfully trapped is because Hajime ambushed them, and they were confused to encounter something new. And yes, the first wolf did indeed howl and the rest of his group noticed.

Spoiler for Space:

Packmates would not be able to directly communicate with each other, but they would somehow know where each were and what they were doing. However, something was something wrong. They were gathered into a group of four but somehow the leader could only sense three left among them. One of the wolves’ signature that was at the opposite side of the wall disappeared.

It harbored doubts, when he put in the effort to raise from his prone position, it heard one of its packmate scream. Restlessness was conveyed from one wolf that was near the companion that disappeared. The comrade was caught and stuck between something and could not slip out. Two wolves on the opposite side rushed up to rescue him. However, the sign of that struggling animal disappeared.

Confused, it quickly went to the wall and checked the area, but nothing was there. The remaining two puzzled wolves used their noses to sniff around the area the two other wolves disappeared from to get a hint.

At that moment, the ground depressed, and the walls protruded out to cover them. When they were about to jump aside, the depressed floor suddenly reverted back to its original state. This would make escaping the trap an easy task for the wolves. If it had not been confused with encountering such a new experience, they would not have been caught so easily. The assailant had already planned for their confusion and that single moment of hesitation. That was a good enough opportunity to catch them.

Here's what happened. There were 4. A wolf disappeared. No scream, no struggle, no NOTHING. The lead wolf felt strange from this and raised its caution. Then another one got stuck and actually screamed, so the lead wolf and the last one came to rescue but failed. Then finally they both failed together.

Hajime was able to stall the Behemoth with a half-assed transmutation desperately created in the middle of combat, which covered only parts of the Behemoth's body.

Thank you, you made a great point. The whole business with Hajime trapping the Behemoth to make him look cool is bullshit in the first place. Do you know what level he was and how much magic he had then? Level 2 with 12 in magic. Yet he had enough magic to sustain and compete with the destruction of the behemoth? Make no sense.

Edit: well, it seems I double posted.

[OverNOut]

^Remember during the battle with the Behemoth, Hajime was drinking a lot of Mana replenishing potions to help with his low Mana capacity.

[borisdrakoni]

Originally Posted by Cinocard

Oh, I was counting the time they spent to clear 100 floors, not the time stayed in Oscar house. They stayed in the house for 2 months, I believe, though I can't remember exactly how much time it took them for the 100 floors now either.

Edit: I just checked. Hajime and Yue did stayed in Oscar abode for 2 months. When Aiko met them again 4 month had passed since he fell. That left 2 months for clearing 2 dungeons, fnished the Haulia business and travel to Brook town twice.

Hajime remained on just the first floor of the labyrinth for nearly a month, so it was probably somewhere between one and two months to conquer it. The novel mentions that after the tar level he starts going through floors very quickly, which makes at least some sense considering that his fighting proficiency, toughness, and crafting skills were all increasing exponentially as he went. As far as trials/floor bosses go, it seems like the only ones were the bear, Yue's room, the mind controlling plant, and the hydra, which is comparatively few considering the hundred floors. Since all of the other labyrinths have been captured in just a matter of days at most, Orcus actually seems to be quite long in comparison.

[Steal-Man]

if i remember correctly Hajime made pitfalls and in the same instant enclose each Wolf, he was in the tunnelhr made just below them so its apear like the earth was eating them; then he try to stab a wolf but they fur was like steel and the earth spear is broken, so he do a drill intead to bypass the strong fur piercing it and killing each wolf.

about his mana pull most of you forgot the things he explain while fighting, he was able to rise his magic power while trapping the monsters in the rear and stabing them, when they fight the behemoth he have a more powerful mana pull but is still to poor to trap the behemoth so he drank mana potions to restore it while still restraining the behemoth, his stats are only show before enter the dungeon and after eating demon flesh so we don't know how much he was able to grow in the gap between the two before he eats the demon's meat.


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i feel like i need an avatar --' my acount just seem plain

[Corvo269]

Originally Posted by Steal-Man

if i remember correctly Hajime made pitfalls and in the same instant enclose each Wolf, he was in the tunnelhr made just below them so its apear like the earth was eating them; then he try to stab a wolf but they fur was like steel and the earth spear is broken, so he do a drill intead to bypass the strong fur piercing it and killing each wolf.

about his mana pull most of you forgot the things he explain while fighting, he was able to rise his magic power while trapping the monsters in the rear and stabing them, when they fight the behemoth he have a more powerful mana pull but is still to poor to trap the behemoth so he drank mana potions to restore it while still restraining the behemoth, his stats are only show before enter the dungeon and after eating demon flesh so we don't know how much he was able to grow in the gap between the two before he eats the demon's meat.


______________________
i feel like i need an avatar --' my acount just seem plain

The spiral spear he made didn't break. It just didn't penetrate the skin when he used it to stab the wolf but it did cause the wolf to get wounded and die really slowly once he started to use that same spiral spear like a drill


Edit: Back to the current dungeons. Seeing that the latest trial was mind games, one of my over-the-top delusions of what happens in the next trial.

Since this trial was a walk in the park for Hajime the next trial would focus on him. When he arrives in the next room, there is a teleport circle there and they all get transported to the next room.

Hajime arrives in the middle of a ice Colosseum but sees everyone else, Harem and Hero Party, enclosed in a box of space magic, then perfect replicas of all of them come out of the ground and start attacking him. He's about to shoot Yue's copy but then hesitates, he notices the copy saying "Why?Why? did you betray me?", then he notices the Shia copy saying, "Everyone... Everyone's dead. It's the same all over again". Hajime notices than rather than them being robots like the last dungeon, the consciousness of all the replicas in this dungeon is the fear of the original brought to life. Hajime kills off Ryuutaro's, Kouki's and Suzu's copy without batting an eye. Then he resolves himself then kills off all the others, finishing the trial. The box disappears and the rest are freed.

Hajime decided to take a breather before continuing on, but before he could proceed the teleport magic started again and this time he was put in the box while the rest were on the floor of the Colosseum. Then out of the ground comes out a copy of Hajime but unlike the original, he appears with a bleeding left elbow(with the rest of the arm missing) and bleeding out of one of his eyes. Without warning the copy disappears and slams Tio into one of the walls. Tio, with her M side activated,"Even if its a copy, this power, its just as strong as master's, moreover he's like a complete beast."

The original Hajime uses telepathy through the box to tell the others that it seems his copy is nothing more than an animal and tells them that they can kill it since it seems the dungeon failed to copy any of his weapons or artifacts. Kouki rushes in confident that he can beat a Hajime without weapons and also missing an arm only to get mega kicked(grand legs skill) and then Hajime grabs him by the neck with lightning clad activated nearly killing him. Then the harem dispatches of the fake and then Kaori goes to heal Kouki who falls to the dark side even more.

[Steal-Man]

Originally Posted by Corvo269

The spiral spear he made didn't break. It just didn't penetrate the skin when he used it to stab the wolf but it did cause the wolf to get wounded and die really slowly once he started to use that same spiral spear like a drill

the first spear break (the normal one who he use to stab the first wolf), it wasn't enought to surpass the fur since he wasn´t stronght enought to do so, and then he make the spiral one (the former Drill, i don't conceive any "spiral spear" since all he do was drill the wolves) to pierce trought that fur with easy without need power for the job all by one hole in the wall of his tunnel.

you can throw the "spear shaped" drill into the air and call it "spear", but even so is still gonna be just a large drill ¬¬ .

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i set my new avatar (the one who i use in all my accounts xD) now i don't sense that feel of been plain anymore :3

[Corvo269]

Originally Posted by Steal-Man

the first spear break (the normal one who he use to stab the first wolf), it wasn't enought to surpass the fur since he wasn´t stronght enought to do so, and then he make the spiral one (the former Drill, i don't conceive any "spiral spear" since all he do was drill the wolves) to pierce trought that fur with easy without need power for the job all by one hole in the wall of his tunnel.

you can throw the "spear shaped" drill into the air and call it "spear", but even so is still gonna be just a large drill ¬¬ .

___________

i set my new avatar (the one who i use in all my accounts xD) now i don't sense that feel of been plain anymore :3

He made only one spear, the spiral one. He just used it to stab first to confirm his suspicion that it wouldn't be enough, then drill with it

[-Sleepless-]

Slowly the rabbit stood up with a slack attitude, after it continued its assault. Hajime quickly constructed a stone wall with his transmutation. Stone wall met the rabbit’s kick and easily the kick pierced through it.

So no charging flying kick there.

Spoiler for Way too long so explanation on why the rabbit's strength doesn't necessarily contribute to breaking the wall...:

A kick needs a lot of speed and strength to actually bring out a lot of power to break the stone wall easily. Without speed the rabbit would be literally putting it's foot on the wall and pushing, not kicking. Since this seems to follow the regular laws of force, Imma just be one of those people who "sciences" into this "fantasy".

Ready?

To have enough power to break through a wall one must have both speed and mass to attribute to a kick(a force). With a "null" or "zero" in either of those values, the power to break the wall goes to null as well. Let's assume that the strength of the rabbit is constant.

(Force=mass x acceleration) (Correct me if I'm wrong, but in this situation this is the most corresponding equation to be used to approximate the rabbit's power)

Since acceleration is given by speed divided by time (Physicists you should know this XD), a force of 0 Newtons (units of force) would be directed at the wall, if the rabbit where to be chilling without touching the wall.
This becomes different when kicking or even leaning on the wall too. Now approximate the mass of the rabbit to be a constant value.
Since the rabbit is kicking, we know that it's leg is accelerating, (unless, you want the kick to be a nudge....) to a certain speed which allows it to break through a wall like shown in the WN. Now, we know that Newton's 3rd law exists in this world, (recoil from guns no matter how reduced), when summarised it's basically how much force the kick gives onto the wall and itself.

By the time you've read this you'll be thinking, WTF man this still doesn't make sense, (if you haven't dismissed this as science babble that doesn't apply to this WN). But rest assured, here it comes. The impact of the wall can be described as instantaneous change of speed in an insanely small period of time. Oh wait ,"Change of speed in" "period of time", we can use this calculate acceleration(deceleration) right?
Basically it ends up with an insanely large value judging by the rabbit's speed within the WN, (so fast that eyes can't catch up IIRC) and it takes the rabbit a minuscule amount of time to "jump" to that speed (pardon the pun), (also based on the info that the rabbit's speed is faster than the wolves). Which allows it to break walls. Oh how far was the distance between the wall and the rabbit? Between 50cm to 1m? It was in an open space so it's not going to matter anyway. The rabbit can and has been shown covering distances in an "instant" almost, (IIRC). So the rabbit would have had a large power advantage when compared to the wolves which were trapped so that they couldn't move, this information is from when they(wolves) are stuck and could not get out.

So in the end Rabbit is free to move means Rabbit gets to have acceleration to fuel it's power to break rock walls. Wolves have no room to move, "caught and stuck", and thus can not provide the force required to break the same walls. Also you can apply the strength equation in this too, but this is getting too long.

[Corvo269]

Originally Posted by -Sleepless-

Spoiler for Way too long so explanation on why the rabbit's strength doesn't necessarily contribute to breaking the wall...:

A kick needs a lot of speed and strength to actually bring out a lot of power to break the stone wall easily. Without speed the rabbit would be literally putting it's foot on the wall and pushing, not kicking. Since this seems to follow the regular laws of force, Imma just be one of those people who "sciences" into this "fantasy".

Ready?

To have enough power to break through a wall one must have both speed and mass to attribute to a kick(a force). With a "null" or "zero" in either of those values, the power to break the wall goes to null as well. Let's assume that the strength of the rabbit is constant.

(Force=mass x acceleration) (Correct me if I'm wrong, but in this situation this is the most corresponding equation to be used to approximate the rabbit's power)

Since acceleration is given by speed divided by time (Physicists you should know this XD), a force of 0 Newtons (units of force) would be directed at the wall, if the rabbit where to be chilling without touching the wall.
This becomes different when kicking or even leaning on the wall too. Now approximate the mass of the rabbit to be a constant value.
Since the rabbit is kicking, we know that it's leg is accelerating, (unless, you want the kick to be a nudge....) to a certain speed which allows it to break through a wall like shown in the WN. Now, we know that Newton's 3rd law exists in this world, (recoil from guns no matter how reduced), when summarised it's basically how much force the kick gives onto the wall and itself.

By the time you've read this you'll be thinking, WTF man this still doesn't make sense, (if you haven't dismissed this as science babble that doesn't apply to this WN). But rest assured, here it comes. The impact of the wall can be described as instantaneous change of speed in an insanely small period of time. Oh wait ,"Change of speed in" "period of time", we can use this calculate acceleration(deceleration) right?
Basically it ends up with an insanely large value judging by the rabbit's speed within the WN, (so fast that eyes can't catch up IIRC) and it takes the rabbit a minuscule amount of time to "jump" to that speed (pardon the pun), (also based on the info that the rabbit's speed is faster than the wolves). Which allows it to break walls. Oh how far was the distance between the wall and the rabbit? Between 50cm to 1m? It was in an open space so it's not going to matter anyway. The rabbit can and has been shown covering distances in an "instant" almost, (IIRC). So the rabbit would have had a large power advantage when compared to the wolves which were trapped so that they couldn't move, this information is from when they(wolves) are stuck and could not get out.

So in the end Rabbit is free to move means Rabbit gets to have acceleration to fuel it's power to break rock walls. Wolves have no room to move, "caught and stuck", and thus can not provide the force required to break the same walls. Also you can apply the strength equation in this too, but this is getting too long.

For those who know physics, in simple terms,
Force=Mass x Acceleration
Momentum = Mass x Velocity
Momentum before and after collision is conserved

So little room to move, means little room to accelerate= Force applied on wall will be next to 0 Newtons.

[OmegaWeaponZ]

Hi, I'm new here. Just made my account, mostly for this thread.

[Corvo269]

Originally Posted by OmegaWeaponZ

Hi, I'm new here. Just made my account, mostly for this thread.

Welcome to the Arifureta thread, where the 742 pages of posts look long and meaningful but about half of it is just Kouki bashing

[jheno13]

People remember that hajime used the power of the spiral to kill the electric wolf...
He also used the power of the spiral to break his human limitations... if only he used a drill as his main weapon he will become super op....lol...

Are we seriously going to talk about Arifureta's shortcomings?
This is a WN a story yet to be officially published..
Without editor or standards to fulfill....
Its rough around the edges and a bit lacking in some part but we just have to accept it as it is....

It's not like we're paying the author for his work...

When this get a LN and you bought it....

Spoiler for :

You're free to rage about plot armor and such....

[Corvo269]

Originally Posted by jheno13

People remember that hajime used the power of the spiral to kill the electric wolf...
He also used the power of the spiral to break his human limitations... if only he used a drill as his main weapon he will become super op....lol...

Are we seriously going to talk about Arifureta's shortcomings?
This is a WN a story yet to be officially published..
Without editor or standards to fulfill....
Its rough around the edges and a bit a lacking in some part but we just have to accept it as it is....

It's not like we're paying the author for his work...

When this get a LN and you bought it....

Spoiler for :

You're free to rage about plot armor and such....

While not his main weapon, a drill is one of his more powerful weapons. Usage includes completely boring out the magic core and heart of a valkyrie, destroying 30 floors of a dungeon and anal play

[arandomdude6]

Originally Posted by Corvo269

While not his main weapon, a drill is one of his more powerful weapons. Usage includes completely boring out the magic core and heart of a valkyrie, destroying 30 floors of a dungeon and anal play

With the anal play leading to extreme masochism.