2012-11-21, 20:53 | Link #81 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
|
I think, because of the heritage, people are more likely to stick around and give the show a chance later on, particularly when the second season (or whatever it is) gets announced. I expect a good number of folk to marathon the first season at that time. That probably won't help that much in the week-to-week discussion for now, though.
And yes, I honestly do expect the discussion to pick up a little bit once the nagging by game players calms down a bit. It is a bit of a deterrent to me as well.
__________________
|
2012-11-21, 20:58 | Link #82 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
|
Quote:
The second problem is a rather common one. The plot has to build up for a long time, and the problem is that the build up is not anything especially exceptional. When you throw an unexceptional build up, on-top of poorly conceived rearrangements and unoriginal, copy-paste adaptation and sub-par directions, and that's where the problems start. Alot of people can't stand the build-up, and the Anime Medium, with it's Once a Week, thirty minutes expansion of the plot delivers too slowly for the plot to reach it's real meat, and the build up to pay off. Now, some studios are very good at making excellent build up and adapting intelligently. I'd say that this is actually why many wanted Kyo-ani to do this - it's not just the visuals that makes Kyo-ani good, it's also their ability to do creative adaptations, and expand on the plot and characters of the source material. We see this K-on (with it's brilliantly written and seamlessly fitted in plot expansions from the manga), we see this with Chuunibyou (with it's reinterpretation of the original Light Novel) and probably quite a few others. This WAS what people was actually fearing, I think. Not Kyo-ani tier visuals (personally, I'm indifferent to the visuals), but whether JC Staff could creatively adapt a story that by all accounts is very tricky to adapt to the anime medium, and requires a good bit of competent originality. It's that "creative adaptation" aspect that Kyo-ani does well that people actually wanted. But LB so far feels uninspired and clunky. By all accounts, it's seems they have failed to polish up on the plot, expand or modify it well for the slower moving Anime Medium. In other wards, they failed to adapt LB intelligently. Yes, I see that the Komari's arc was an example of JC Staff being aware that viewers today want to be wowed in five- seven episodes (for 2 cour animes, if you got 1 cour, three episode rule applies), or they'll loose interest the show. And the way I see it, Komari's route does not center upon romance, but upon friendship, in the adaptation, and therefore can easily be modified to fit the Common Route itself. Personally, Komari's VA alienated me to those episodes, but when I look at it on dialogue alone, it isn't actually quite bad, to be honest. It could do with being later, and I think there needed to be indeed, more buildup for it's denouement of friendship to be more credible. But taken in isolation, it's actually quite a nice story, by itself. But that may be part of the problem. It isn't wowing people. It's just... average so far, at best. And in general, elements like hung jokes (as someone who never read the actual VN, some of the jokes just felt like they were just left hanging, and poorly executed, even if there's a strong story under the execution) only serve to irritate audiences further. So, LB is probably a mess right now. There are plenty of unintelligent adaptation choices. This stage (which is clearly a buildup) isn't brilliantly or inspiringly executed, at best , it is just... average. Mediocre even. Will the situations change six episodes from now? |
|
2012-11-21, 21:19 | Link #83 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
|
Quote:
I think people are operating on faith when they say that any other writer or production team would necessarily have fixed whatever they think the flaws are with Little Busters' story at this point. Perhaps that faith is fair based on past experience, but I don't think the sort of "creativity" being called for is so trivial. I also don't think that even KyoAni was isolated from criticism for their adaptation choices in past Key shows (I remember some of it quite vividly, in fact). I've said it before, but I think that the Little Busters anime is competing with the show people imagine it could have been, and not necessarily with what it was ever likely to be. Thus it's a competition that the show can't help but lose no matter what.
__________________
|
|
2012-11-21, 22:01 | Link #84 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
|
^ If that is the case, then a Kyo-Ani production or even a SHAFT production of Little Busters with the same production committee might end up as "an eye candy series with a cluster-eff story". Well, based on how many people would end up in Little Busters and how the Komari Arc was handled, it just proves the difficulty (to the point of impossibility) of translating the VN to an anime series.
__________________
|
2012-11-21, 22:06 | Link #85 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-11-21, 22:08 | Link #86 | |
likes cute things
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Searching for more imoutos
Age: 43
|
Quote:
Unless the story gets twisted in some way to make what happens later believable, I can just see later anime only viewers going "why?" "why is that happening?" "why did this happen?" And that's because it's what I've been saying for awhile... It's because a few very important plot elements are missing! IIRC, there were even some anime only viewers that felt it was a bit forced/rushed. |
|
2012-11-21, 22:10 | Link #87 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
|
The reason is because there's just too many people with a story, and there's little time to go down each and every one of them. Hell, going through the stories of the main five might need an entire cour by themselves already. Little Busters might need 72 episodes (six cours, including Refrain, excluding Kud Wafter) to cover everything.
__________________
|
2012-11-21, 22:19 | Link #88 | |
likes cute things
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Searching for more imoutos
Age: 43
|
Quote:
26 for what we're going through now 12 for the ending arc and it's prelude. If we get 24-26 for the ending arc + prelude to it, then that would just be awkward... Since things are being so rushed now, slowing that THAT much will just be odd for me. But hey, if done well, maybe it can be stretched into another 24-26 eps. |
|
2012-11-21, 23:08 | Link #89 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
|
Quote:
Key said from the get-go that the way they figured out how to handle this adaptation required a compromise between people who understand the secret of the world and those who don't, and that they had figured out how to make an anime adaptation work. I take them at their word that they know what they're doing. I don't know the game info you and others keep referring to, but I will wait to see what the anime does to see if it was conveyed effectively. My take is that game players are being a bit too literal and uncompromising as they keep insisting on this point. (Once it's all said and done, perhaps I'll understand the issue, and maybe will come to agree with you and other game players. But for now I think we have to assume that they have a plan.) As for the episode count, keep in mind that they said that all the characters in the game would have their stories animated eventually, and implied this would carry into the second season (that was the context when they said that more was going to come after this 26-episode season is up). So that may provide some insight into how they'll spend their time. But any more speculation would have to go to the game spoiler & speculation thread.
__________________
|
|
2012-11-21, 23:54 | Link #90 | |
On a mission
Author
|
Quote:
Though Reckoner has a point with the Kyoani exceptionalism possbility. Maybe people prefer the Kyoani style over Key itself. IMO, despite all the grace people gave Kyoani, Kanon and Air had awful pacing, and Clannad was fine there... only because it was damned long. I would also say the 2nd season, while praised the most, still has rather strange priorities. Still, considering Air was fairly nothing special til very late in the anime, a great deal of Kanon (either 2002 or 2006) was unwatchable , and Angel Beats was umm... well... not their finest hour, I think Little Busters will take a while to grow and I guess from my point of view.... Spoiler for all:
__________________
|
|
2012-11-22, 00:07 | Link #91 | |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2012-11-22, 06:24 | Link #93 | ||
On a mission
Author
|
Quote:
The complaints are not all the same thing and are coming from various people, of which many had enjoyed previous Key series. Don't you think that they're not watching the show for the sole purpose of bashing it? While it's true that some arguments will be too repetitious, I think it would be better if you were to counter with good things about the show. Quote:
At least it's not Deen though.
__________________
|
||
2012-11-22, 06:31 | Link #94 |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
|
It's odd that anime-only viewers think that the animation is the main complaint of the people who have read the VN, eventhough i didn't bother reading every thread I actually thought that the pacing and the left out or changed story elements (especially the ones related to Riki and Rin) are the bigger problems.
|
2012-11-22, 06:35 | Link #95 |
malefic
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nowhere, because I don't exist
Age: 32
|
I have yet to understand most of the complaints. People talk about lack of animation or poor animation quality (the animation looks fine to me) or about how the flow of the scenes is unnatural or how the gags are not funny. The game to anime comparison threads are full of some other complaints I can't post here. I don't understand them. In fact, I do understand one of them, about how the anime left out a certain something, but just like Relentless said, I have faith that they know what they are doing. All this negativity just ruins my mood, so I decided to ignore it. I enjoy the anime for what it is and the moment I realize a post is going to have something bad in it, I just stop reading it. I even learned some names that are most likely to post complaints so I just completely ignore their posts. I'm having too much fun to let it be ruined like that...
|
2012-11-22, 06:56 | Link #96 | |||
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
Quote:
I've seen a fair number of "romance route" VN adaptations now, and I've noticed that one of the keys to success for a unified format VN adaptation is something that may bother some source material fans but is nonetheless true - A major heroine or two has to be shunted a bit to the side. If you try to give each and every major heroine her own arc, each girl will suffer because of it, and the narrative will end up feeling like a mess. In this post, I'll delve into my reasoning here. Major spoilers below. Only read the sections for shows you've already seen (and/or don't care at all on being spoiled on). Spoiler for Mashiro-iro Symphony:
Spoiler for Clannad:
Spoiler for Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate:
Spoiler for Steins;Gate and Fate/Stay Night:
So, in conclusion, the best VN adaptations make hard but productive choices. They allow a couple major heroines to slip into "supporting cast" roles, while narrowing the focus to two or three major heroines. This makes the narrative feel more clear and cohesive, while giving enough time to properly develop the chosen girls and their stories. When VN adaptations (at least of the unified format) fail, it's usually because they get too ambitious, and try too hard to satisfy each and every major heroine's fanbase. Perhaps that's going on with LB! Quote:
The clearest example of this is actually not a VN adaption, but rather the Hyouka one. Spoiler for Minor Hyouka spoilers:
So I think what KyoAni was able to do was make the slow, long build-up of the Key narratives seem as good as they possibly could be. It made their more lackluster moments seem decently entertaining and noteworthy at least.
__________________
|
|||
2012-11-22, 07:07 | Link #97 | ||
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
|
Quote:
I don't think most of the people are interested in my opinions. Quote:
__________________
|
||
2012-11-22, 08:30 | Link #98 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
|
Is LB's problem poor animation? Yes, I know I am pounding on old territory when I note the differences in production values between Sakurajou and LB, so I won't go down that lane.
And personally, I find the adaptation so far... just watchable, to be blunt. I think I can sort of understand what they were trying for, in the Komari route, and that was to try to drain romance right out of it (and I think they did manage to do it, decently, since by the end of the route, I cannot see a Riki X Komari being even remotely possible.) So, if the Common Route was friendship oriented, then yes, perhaps it DOES make sense to adapt the Komari Route earlier on, though I'd have rather had seen the cast fully assembled first. It actually is an interesting hint : could it be that they intend to diffuse all the early routes, and construct them as "friendship", "Platonic" routes, while the later routes would be more romantic focus? If this is truly the Haruka route (as opposed to a continuation of the common route after a Komari Route interlude) , could it be that once again, the next few episodes would touch on the theme of Friendship, in another way? Will they assemble all the cast before going onto the specific routes, or will they clear the easiest routes that can be converted or presented from a platonic angle of friendship instead, before the full cast is assembled? |
2012-11-22, 10:08 | Link #99 | ||||
likes cute things
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Searching for more imoutos
Age: 43
|
Quote:
Quote:
About the flow, I'm just going to stop talking about it among anime only viewers since most/all of them don't really know where me or others are coming from. But do you seriously find most of the gags funny? Sure there are a few nice ones here and there, but I find most of them flat. Quote:
This makes me wonder about what people look for first. Do people that look for animation and art style notice complaints about those things more? Also, do people that look for a proper narrative notice complaints and concerns about those things more? I think people are just focusing in on what they're most interested in and getting annoyed by it. Quote:
|
||||
2012-11-22, 12:20 | Link #100 | |
malefic
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nowhere, because I don't exist
Age: 32
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|