Umineko FanFiction Discussion

[checkFinished]

I was surprised to see that the game was actually smaller than 5 GBs, though I can still call it a big ass game. Anyways, I'll be seeding.

[Golden Bug-Hunter]

Finally played Total Seacats. Thanks for the release and all the sharing! It was hilarious.

[battle22]

Thank you very much ^^

Edit : Direct links are added now.

[Golden Bug-Hunter]

Oh snap! Renall's at 85% on the Tea Party! Man, the 80s are totally going to kick my butt!

Well, I'm in a corner, so in classic Umineko fashion that means it's time for an all out attack!!

Are you READY RENALLLLLL??!!!! HERE I COMMMMMMMEEEEEE!!!!

(I might have had a few drinks while typing this all up.)

Spoiler for Drunken Blitzkrieg of the Golden Bug-Hunter:

Alright. Let's warm it up nice and easy.

Battler didn't go to the beach because he coordinated a planned meeting with someone. Just like the adults were planning ahead of the conference, Genj and Kumasawa arranged their opening moves as well. Possibly in the guise of 'This is being coordinated by Shannon, the girl you had a thing for' but maybe not since Battler actually asked whether Shannon was still working there. Genji or Kumasawa came by, tidied up the room, and gave Battler the Rose and the letter. Battler noticing the tidied up room is a clue that one of the servants did it, but Shannon was at the beach fending off George's advances which means she has an alibi and Kannon couldn't exist at that time.

So, Battler was an accomplice, but not to murder. Even this incarnation of Battler seems incapable of culpritting anything nastier than a prank.

Battler signed on to help Lion claim her inheritance and such, but everything went to hell.

Let's start with the broken body of Shannon, bent at an awkward angle. It's really suspicious because we know from Ep5 that the window to Kinzo's study isn't near the rose garden, it's around the side of the house. Still, I'm going to go out on a limb here. Shannon's placement is because this author has never been to Rokkenjima with an intact mansion, unlike Yasu. Or maybe she was thrown from a different window. Or jumped in fear and landed poorly. Shannon really is dead at this point in the story. Battler's whole 'You're just playing, right?' routine at this point is a clue. He signed on to help 'Beatrice' create a 'Mystery Game', but seeing Shannon's broken corpse he realizes that shit is going wrong and spends the rest of the story in WTF mode.

So Shannon's dead, and Kannon with her. But the parents do not know ShKannonTrice Theory so they are on the hunt for Kannon.

They know Gohda and the kids would never be in for hunting down and killing someone, so they feed them a line about an assassin, spread out and go hunting. Natsuhi was already mortally wounded at that point. Shannon or Nanjo hurt her or possibly tried to use her as a hostage before getting killed. So Natsuhi goes to bed to sleep off her wounds. Natsuhi shattered the lightbulbs herself and spread them around as the old 'crinkling glass in the dark to wake me if someone sneaks in' trick. But unfortunately for her, it was already too late. She bled to death while Krauss was out getting murdered. The story about 'resting in her room' was improvised, which is why Rosa got all tense when Battler talked about Krauss being on his own. Rosa thought it might mean Battler knew something he shouldn't.

Rudolph and Kyrie went to the guest house. Krauss came after them there, but those two were too much for him. They waited for him in the room with the shattered window. Ambushed him, messed him up, and threw him out the window. Krauss crawled away and died. Rudolph and Kyrie go down to the lobby of the guest house and have a drink since Rudolph feels horrible about it... That is when Hideyoshi shot Rudolph through the window. Hideyoshi runs off. Kyrie might have taken a shot at him, but Hideyoshi got away. Maybe Kyrie was the one who tossed the cigarette, saw it fail to ignite Rudolph as a funeral fire, and walked away?

WHen Virgillia and Battler talk about focussing on 'The one presenting this tale' and Battler goes 'you mean Andy', that's a clue. You're hinting at Andy being a piece for David Martin. We're intruding on a sibling thing like I spelled out in my theories on the 90s.

Kyrie correclty figured out that Genji and Kumasawa were pushing for Shannon/Kannon to be acknowledged as the heir to the family fortune. She thought they had sacrificed one of Sh/Kannon to grant victory to the other, but in fact there was only ever one Yasu. Sh/Kannon died and the others turned on each-other to increase their share once the killing ended.

I'm going to copy-paste from a notepad I've been keeping based on the 'Questions' vid now...

The forgery-

1: What do we know about the author of the forgery?

-One of the Martin siblings. Identified with Red as the Summoner. So the sister. She is ethnically white, probably blonde, Richands Beauty Martin is my best guess for the name. In 1986 She was about 25, so in 1996 she would have been 35. Old enough to joke about being an old maid. Young enough for that to not be completely true. Around Cougar territory. (yeah, I went there.)

2: When was the earliest it could have been written?

-The specific naming of Lion in the narrative suggests post episode 7, or at least that it was revised post ep 7 from an original story where the 'inheritor' may not have been named. I don't think that name was foreshadowed in any of the other stories, which is part of why Will didn't pick up on Lion as a Beatrice-manifestation immediately. I wonder if a 'delay' is being alluded to in the conversation about the meal from 2.3? Gohda started cooking but the delivery was delayed because of circumstances, so he cooked a bit longer and the flavor improved. The writing started earlier, say right after Ep 5 and the opponent was the 'person from 19 years ago' of Ep 5, but was delayed by circumstances so various details, like Lion being the new 'hidden mastermind' were able to come in and 'improve the flavor'.

3: What parts of the story were actually contained in the forgery?

-Obviously anything 'On the game board' is in the forgery, except for the last little bit where Battler jumps in to challenge the Summoner.



Aftermath-

1: Did anyone survive? If yes, what did they do? If no, who wrote the forgery?

-Jeroboam is still out there, I think. Certainly someone is out there.

2: What became of the gold ingot?

-It was never there. The appearance of the gold is the place marker for when the tale moves from reality into fantasy. It is a thing of magic in this tale just like Eva-trice or Andromalius

2: Disregarding differences in author knowledge, could this fragment exist in the catbox? Why or why not?

-The catbox stories are about redemptive illusions for a murder-suicide. Yasu is so messed up and scared that revealing her true self will make people hate her, that she goes for a Fantasy-tinged murder suicide so that her loving relationships will never be broken up. This killer however is all about the hate and anger. The family is full of disgusting people, and they are getting what they deserve. There's no 'I want to die with the one I love' angst. It's all Punisher style retribution, without anything like Yasu's heart. By the end of the story I am forced to conclude that whatever that thing is, it definitely isn't Kanon. (ba-dump Ching) So no. It does not belong in the Catbox. But... I have enjoyed fighting this witch anyway. Nothing like a drunken brawl for the weekend, right?

One last final attack now. One final strike before I go to bed. There's always a last twist at the end, a final blow to put everything on its head, and rewrite the story. I can see it, I think. The twist that says 'even if we welcome you, there are only 18 people on this island.' But I'm a little better than Erika. I can see the last heart of this mystery coming, and I"m not intimidated.

Jeroboam, the sister, was never on Rokkenjima in 1996. Only three people visited. Cass, Karl, and Hiro. She mourned the loss of her friends, and writing a forgery was how she expressed her grief. What really happened is that Cass lured Karl into the woods for sex, and killed him there. THen she threw Hiro over the cliff, and slit her own vein as part of a murder-suicide.

This is the last twist I can see coming. With this, I have countered any final attacks that come. Bring your tea-party, Renall. I have fought the summoner to the last.

Goodnight, and I shall theorize again for the post-tea-party tea-party for those who are not human.

[Renall]

Redaction of the Golden Witch - Tea Party

You've returned. Much has happened since you were away. Walter Absalom's report has long since been closed, and the curious Fragment is on its way home. While it may seem that little time at all has passed, that is an unfortunate artifact of your position relative to the events portrayed. Answers were provided to the Golden Witch ages ago. However, a retelling is an acceptable endeavor for the benefit of witches of the future unable to be present at the time.

Join the witch now to discuss these matters in a civil, polite dialogue with absolutely no surprises whatsoever.

The story is of course not yet complete! If you'd prefer to read the whole thing at once, you may want to hold off on this. It has answers... just not all of them.

[Jaden]

Great job with Redaction as always!

Spoiler for tea party!:

Well, I couldn't tackle most of the questions properly before I felt compelled to read onward. But I don't really feel bad about that, because some of the hints presented here I honestly needed to have anyway, especially the clarifications about the story's setting...

It's a very umineko-like story, for example the final challenge of Beatrice is not Battler, but Battler is Beatrice, where you have to manuever around twisted logic, felt very nostalgic.

Of course there's the possibility that Battler's blue is simply wrong here, since this is where we are mercilessly cliffhanged. But at this point I'm inclined to believe that he's got it.

And of course, Battler has no multiple personalities, because while the story is very Umineko-like...I have faith that Renall wouldn't do this to us. Please don't do this to us.

So that just leaves the old time trick. At some point, Battler is Beatrice. At another point, he isn't. For example, maybe he didn't go to the beach because he wanted to work on the epitaph. Then he solved it, but didn't actually know how to proceed because he hadn't seen the chapel. The rest came to him after he separated from George and Jessica, so he proceeded to claim the gold and the ring, becoming Beatrice.

Another possibility is that Battler is the one Genji/Kumasawa want to make into "Lion". He gains the knowledge and title of Beatrice that way, and in the end he's only trying to escape through the tunnels.

In either case, Eva sneaks after him and confronts him in the gold room or the tunnels it joins to, understandably mistaking him for the culprit.Eva kills Battler and, of course, ends up being Beatrice.

So how is Battler actually responsible for all the deaths? I'm not sure, but it's not like he is directly implied to murder anyone. And isn't it the premise of every Umineko story that Battler's return causes the deaths? Yes it is, so I'm not gonna think too deeply on this.

And well, it's not multiple personalities, but we do have another similarly peculiar character in the story. I'm talking about Jeroboam of course. I'm still having a really hard time figuring this character out.

Firstly, Jeroboam must be one of the two siblings in the flashbacks, simply because there aren't any other characters that fit.

Also, Jeroboam isn't a fantasy character, because we have the policemen's story and they clearly met with a fourth person in the group. Jeroboam also met with professor Ootsuki. However, there's no guarantee Jeroboam actually went all the way to Rokkenjima, I suppose.

Jeroboam's middle name does not match with the boy sibling. So that means it's the girl? But, Jeroboam uses male names in introductions to the police and Ootsuki. So, he was born a girl but is transgender, or is a habitual crossdresser able to make a convincing masculine voice. The school students in the dream allude to the girl's strangeness as well..."If you're like that, it's no wonder your father killed himself".

From this connection you can also see that the siblings have different surnames, the girl having changed from Martin to Richards. So either she's married or took the name of her adoptive parents after original ones died.

That aside...I hope someone has theories for the 1986 murders, because I got very little lol. I think some of them actually went as Culprit Battler described, though. Pretty much everyone was shot and we do get bullet counts for the guns Battler finds. Kyrie 2/5, Krauss 5/5. Rudolf's and Hideyoshi's are missing.

Rudolf looks like he was caught off guard and shot through the window. Then perhaps follow-up shots tried to hit whoever he was drinking with, but missed, causing the mess of the gouged table and the broken bottle.

Krauss also fairly self-explanatory, his ass was kicked out through the window and he was shot in the back, not necessarily in that order. Maybe that was actually Rosa, because shoving people through windows seems to be a thing that she does.

Kyrie killed the servants in the chapel and fired one round somewhere else, then got shot or bled out. I'm willing to accept that too. But what the hell were the servants setting up here? There's the PIN code on the wall, which Kyrie did not seem to notice. Did the culprit that killed Kyrie put that there afterwards? She didn't seem to notice the envelope either. It had the cryptic message that I can't really connect to anything. "Ignorance is a sin, but knowledge makes sinners of us all".

I don't think Hideyoshi was necessarily shot in front of Eva, because in the end Eva is still confused about who the killers are. Also she's picked up a gun, possibly she just found Hideyoshi dead and picked his gun up?

Whether the rest of the cousins and Rosa get shot too, I don't know. There's also the possibility of the bombs going off.

[Thunder Book]

Finally caught up with Redaction. Pretty awesome job, Renall. I'll post more in-depth thoughts later.

Question though. What's the name of the song that plays about an hour and 12 minutes into the Tea Party?

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

Finally caught up with Redaction. Pretty awesome job, Renall. I'll post more in-depth thoughts later.

Question though. What's the name of the song that plays about an hour and 12 minutes into the Tea Party?

I believe it's ruriair from ep6, if it's the one that starts around that time. Technically more of an "Erika song," which I've been avoiding because Erika's not in it, but there are occasionally spots where some tracks mostly work.

Plus there's only so many to be used... and I'm saving a few of them.

[Golden Bug-Hunter]

Hmmm, so there's the tea party.

Spoiler for After the tea party:

Nice use of Black Battler first of all. You and I have a similar understanding of what he is and what he represents. Might have wanted to taunt him with an amnesia reference, but that might be a bit much of muchness.

I think a lot of this part of the story hinges on the meaning of the word 'Responsible'. It is possible to be responsible for a tragedy without being a culprit. Take, for example, Battler failing to remember his relationship with Yasu and abandoning her for 6 years. Battler has a sin and because of that sin people die. So he could be considered responsible. But Battler did not commit murder in any of Beatrice's forgeries. That nuanced distinction of responsible is crucial. Battler, Yasu, Genji, Kumasawa, all of them are responsible for the events leading up to Shannon's murder, but that doesn't mean they are culprits per say.

I do think that Battler planned to participate in some kind of scheme regarding the inheritance for this game. Probably the Genji-Kumasawa one for Yasu to be acknowledged and get the money. Maybe this is a world without the sin of six years, where he did a better job of staying in touch so Yasu didn't need to play a murder game? that would fit with the lack of a George Wedding proposal scene. Maybe Battler asking about Shannon to keep up appearances with Rosa even though he knows?

That conspiracy would make Battler 'responsible' for this catastrophe even though he never pulled a trigger, and thus deny Black Battler.

In fact, let's go a little further. Battler is the fated one true love of Yasu / Beatrice, so the person who has the ring of the head may be none other than Battler himself, given to him as Yasu's engagement ring. It was placed in the pocket of his jacket along with the rose and the letter.

He avoided meeting Shannon when he arrived both to carry out his part in the deception, and also because he was worried he wouldn't be able to conceal the relationship in front of sharp-eyed adults like Kyrie and Eva. If he helped Maria find the letter, and he was known to be dating Shannon, the jig is completely up, right?

That would be consistent with Battler freaking out even more than George when they found Shannon's body, I think.

But the ones who bleed out... I haven't figured out a method for that. Something cuts them. They maybe dismiss it as a minor wound? But these people wouldn't be that stupid. Especially not Kyrie. I can't accept a solution that involves her being so stupid as to walk around with huge blood loss from a vital cut for a while without noticing she needs to do first aid on herself...

Precision knife wounds... like from a doctor with a scalpel? Here's a blue fragment starting from the closed door meeting in Kinzo's study.

Nanjo sees the meeting is going to hell, the adults might be reaching for the guns already, and he gets scared and desperate. He grabs someone he can overpower, like Natsuhi, and puts a scalpel to her neck like 'let me and Shannon go or I'll kill her.' It starts to work. Shannon climbs out the window maybe because there are guns between her and the door. Inside, something goes wrong. Maybe Natsuhi squirms too much and gets herself cut. Maybe one of the adults takes a shot and Nanjo twitches. Natsuhi starts bleeding but it isn't an instant kill. Nanjo goes down.

People with guns go hunting for the one that got away. Outside, Shannon's climbing on roofs in the dark and the rain. A desperate gamble, and this time the odds don't play out in her favor. She slips, falls, and lands poorly. Cue the children arriving to see dead Shannon and the hunting grown ups instantly inventing a lie about an assassin.

Meanwhile, Natsuhi is flickering in and out of consciousness / sanity. Krauss takes her to her room, tucks her in, and helps set up the glass shards thing out of sincere belief that there is a dangerous person who might try to kill her, but it's already too late. Natsuhi finishes bleeding out due to Krauss not being a doctor while everyone else is out playing 'The Most Dangerous Game'.

But who cut Kyrie, I wonder? The fantasy narrative of Genji's throwing-knife doesn't work, because Battler didn't find a knife on/in/near her. If someone came by and took the knife, wouldn't they take the gun as well since that is a better weapon?

Ah, it's no good. No good at all. My theories for the 80s are full of holes, intuition and guesses. I feel like I'm hovering right outside small bombs territory. I'm much more confident about the 90s...

Well, lemme muddle on through. I'm not done embarrassing myself yet.

Kyrie and Rudolph like to go for the boss first. They head for the guest house because they figure that and the chapel are the two best places for a surviving conspirator to hide, and the guest house has more room. Also gives them space from crazy relatives with guns. When Krauss appears, they lure him to the upper room and violently defenestrate him. They check him and find he doesn't have the ring, so he can't be the culprit they're looking for.

Rudolph drinks his remorse for participating in mistaken self defense killings. Anyone would feel guilty for killing someone you suspect and then finding you were wrong and they're innocent.

Hideyoshi and possibly Eva see enough to realize Rudolph and Kyrie murdered Krauss. They freak out. Hideyoshi shoots Rudolph through the window. Kyrie shoots back, but misses. Maybe a blind shot resting the barrel against the window frame, to explain the streak? Maybe Kyrie was caught from some of the glass shards and that's why she is bleeding so much?

Anyway, Kyrie goes to the chapel, accuses Genji and Kumasawa because she has System-0 eliminated Krauss from suspicion. Shoots them, then finishes dying. Kumasawa wrote the numbers then laid down and died with Genji. (Genji x Kumasawa shipping?)

It might work as well if instead of Hideyoshi it was Rosa that shot Rudolph. Either one should work, but Hideyoshi was the one nearby in the fantasy so my gut points more towards him...

Urgh, after that it gets a bit foggy even for my lunacy. I've missed something. Something isn't clicking quite right here...

[Jaden]

I'm doing Total Seacat Island as well.

I'm cringing half the time and laughing the other half...

...not sure if worth.

[battle22]

Thank you for giving it a try ^^

[Jaden]

Wait a minute, there are fucking bad endings? Are you kidding me? I have not made any saves..

[battle22]

XDDD... Sorry... I should have warned people about that...

[Renall]

I have been a bit negligent in my work lately, so progress is a bit slow. There's a few technical quirks and effects that I'm also wrangling with (if all goes well, it should be pretty cool), but I'm also behind on writing. I blame violent video games.

Good news is it'll be done... and then I guess I have to try to make a VN format release, which will be a bitch. And possibly one additional TIP that has nothing much to do with anything but is a really fun idea, if you like Andromalius anyway. I have no idea if anyone likes him. He is kind of an asshole, but then again, it's Umineko where "kind of an asshole" practically qualifies you for sainthood.

[Jaden]

I don't like when people flaunt how they're more well-read than myself. Other than that he is an awesome character.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I don't like when people flaunt how they're more well-read than myself. Other than that he is an awesome character.

You mean me or him? Because he's not as well-read as he thinks he is, and I'm actually not either. It's just two specific characters who do it, because they are smug assholes, and feeling that they are smug assholes for doing it is entirely intended. On the other hand, if it's me, my bad.

[AuraTwilight]

Also Andy is a demon and making obscure references is what they do, according to Dante's Divine Comedy. :P

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Renall

You mean me or him? Because he's not as well-read as he thinks he is, and I'm actually not either. It's just two specific characters who do it, because they are smug assholes, and feeling that they are smug assholes for doing it is entirely intended. On the other hand, if it's me, my bad.

In your case it's fine, it seems like a good quality for an author especially in the mystery genre. And yeah I'd be a poor judge of well-readness, only comparing to myself..

[Renall]

My favorite reference is the one an editor caught right away, which was funny because I wasn't expecting anyone to notice:

Spoiler:

Kinzo's flashback rant to the portrait of Beatrice is word-for-word the lyrics to the second verse of John Denver's "Annie's Song." Like, not even paraphrased. Kinzo quotes a number of funny things for no apparent reason except that it amused me, from Blue Oyster Cult to Prospero from The Tempest. Which he caught Andy improperly using at the end of the TIP, and corrected him.

A number of other things Andy quotes either lack perspective (his Dostoevsky quote-off with the summoner in 4.2, his "hell is other people" quote in 6.4) or are flat-out wrong (he completely butchers the meaning of "there are truths which are not for all men, nor for all times"). His TIP also completely screws up Ecclesiastes 3, which is a celebration of the meaninglessness of things (he's trying to use it to justify the meaning of his own existence).

[Golden Bug-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Renall

Spoiler:

Kinzo quotes a number of funny things for no apparent reason except that it amused me, from Blue Oyster Cult to Prospero from The Tempest. Which he caught Andy improperly using at the end of the TIP, and corrected him.

Spoiler for Kinzo vs. Andy:

What's interesting to me about that little exchange is, depending on where your sympathies lie, it could go either way.

Either Andy is just throwing out words that sound cool, and Kinzo calls him out on it. Or Andy is saying 'the subtext of this conversation was where all the meaty stuff was happening, the unspoken parts were fascinating' and Kinzo under-estimated him. Or subtly insulted him with the implication of the first meaning.

And, as much as I love Kinzo, I lean towards the second idea, probably more of an insult than not realizing Andy meant it that way. It's kind of amusing. Kinzo asks a neutral party. The neutral party say 'It's got nothing to do with me, who cares?' and Kinzo takes offense at that.