2008-05-27, 20:26 | Link #1281 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
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Okay, let's finish this particular thing.... The Geass was an order for Suzaku to NEVER try and get himself killed. In other words, he is to protect himself in all dangerous situations. |
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2008-05-27, 20:34 | Link #1282 | |
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
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Thanks, Lelouch! In the process of putting Suzaku in a life-threatening position in the first place, you really did his mind a favor! |
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2008-05-27, 20:36 | Link #1283 | |
Bzzt.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Purging distant worlds.
Age: 34
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2008-05-28, 04:44 | Link #1284 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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So if you don't want to try to save the whole world you're narrow-minded and selfish? Gee wow, way to label more than 99.999999% of earth's population. And again, why don't you guys try to provide some kind of proof that Lelouch actually believes what Zero is saying (when there are even multiple instances of dialogue which explicitly deny this).
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2008-05-28, 04:58 | Link #1285 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
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Haha... Well, IMHO the root of people's dislike for Suzaku lies in that it's sort of hard to like a collaborator, no matter how "good" his intentions are |
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2008-05-28, 06:05 | Link #1286 | |
Blood flows freely..
Join Date: Apr 2008
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2008-05-28, 08:14 | Link #1287 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2008
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(You know some leaders...they would kill the civilians just to show that any messing around with by the terrorist will simply cause more pain for the people they are trying to save) |
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2008-05-28, 08:30 | Link #1288 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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From the situation with the Assassin, we know the current Suzaku is indecisive. This is even though he is a KotR, and have been given the authority to sign death warrants. I say indecisive rather than kind, because Suzaku had no problem letting the assassin die by someone else's signature; he just doesn't want the moral responsibility of condemning a man to death. If Suzaku was truly a kind man, he would have objected to Anya making a decision for him. But no, the man's death is okay as long as he doesn't pull the trigger. If Suzaku had made a decision on his own, whether he pardoned the man or condemned him to the firing squad, it would still be a sign of decisive leadership. It would have been a sign he knows what he wants to do as a Britannian leader, and thus has some capacity to get what he wants as a potential future ruler of Area 11... But he did neither. This then, is a Suzaku who have no desire to lead. Suzaku did not make a decision on the fate of a human's life, but instead let someone else make the choice for him. This is a definitive sign that Suzaku, even after all these episodes, had not gain any leadership potential. (Which directly mirror Lulu's inability to become less of a weakling after all these episodes.) Suzaku will never be an effective ruler of Area 11, even if he become a Knight of One. He would try to behave like a benevolent ruler in principle, but all that will happen is all the abuse and oppression will continue because Suzaku will never do anything to stop it. Blood spilling is only bad to Suzaku if it is on his initiative. If someone else is doing the killing, or alternatively someone had take the responsibility for Suzaku's actions by ordering him, then it is all A-Okay.
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2008-05-28, 08:51 | Link #1289 | |
Lost in the starry sky...
Join Date: May 2008
Age: 33
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Hmm, interesting perspective. I do quite agree with you on that Suzaku is being indecisive. I've not looked too deep into that "signing execution paper" scene all that much; your insight in this is certainly logical. Indeed at his state now, he won't have much chance of becoming Knight of One with his current attributes let alone governing Area 11.
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I do think Suzaku is kind of narrow minded, but I can see what he is trying to do. It is, theoretically, quite effective-- breaking the cycle of history. But he just doesn't seem to have what it takes to achieve this... <.<
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2008-05-28, 08:56 | Link #1290 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Depends what theory you're working with. Mine is that Britania won't change its ways without a reason, and Suzaku slaughtering its enemies to go up the ranks isn't a reason.
At best, he could create a temporary haven in the area he's in charge of, but, as VCV pointed out, he's kinda lacking in the leadership department. |
2008-05-28, 09:03 | Link #1291 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
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2008-05-28, 09:11 | Link #1292 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Your argument would have made sense if Suzaku spared the assassin, or told Anya he would handle it on his own. But instead Suzaku washed his hands clean with the satisfaction that someone died without his involvement. Suzaku will never order a massacre. But that doesn't make him a saint, as it is the ordering that he objects to, not the massacre.
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2008-05-28, 09:15 | Link #1293 | |
Lost in the starry sky...
Join Date: May 2008
Age: 33
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I'm saying there are chances that Britainnia can change; it is definitely not impossible. Had Suzaku tried something like this instead of trying to do something he cannot achieve, I would've supported him (though this does make the anime quite boring indeed)
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2008-05-28, 09:18 | Link #1294 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
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While he certainly has a problem with taking responsibility, this is over exaggerated. If there's one thing we know about Suzaku it's that he does not like killing people; or maybe I missed him throwing a party after Anya signed the paper for him.
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2008-05-28, 09:24 | Link #1295 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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And yeah, that's not what Suzaku's doing. Suzaku's supporting the system. That's why it won't change. Not thanks to him, anyway. |
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2008-05-28, 09:54 | Link #1296 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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It has been made clear from the most recent episode that Suzaku is taking the "see no evil" approach. Suzaku dislikes making a decision to kill people, and whether someone is innocent or guilty does not matter. And that is precisely what Zero counted on; Suzaku's psychosis on life-or-death decision making.
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2008-05-28, 10:37 | Link #1297 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
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Last edited by Silver Soul; 2008-05-28 at 10:46. Reason: misspelled |
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2008-05-28, 10:52 | Link #1298 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
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And like Lloyd pointed out in one episode, that's the whole contradiction of his character. It doesn't mean he likes taking lives nor that he'll stop caring the moment someone else takes the responsibility for him. |
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2008-05-28, 11:23 | Link #1299 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Edo Japan
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Granted Suzaku's character is that of confusion, the term goes why kill if you don't want to kill or for Lelouch's case why kill if you don't wanna be killed, its another one of these staments why I find this series so addicting that it actually lets you think lot about yourself compare to the charcters themselves and Suzaku seems to not fit the bill of a standard major character since his whole ideal on how everyone should lives one's life is so different from any of the chracters on this series and the whole if he doesn't want to kill why he joined the military hit the nail on the head but I can somehow symphasize more with him than Lelouch because I've already seen what kind of character he is and as episode 7 explains during the scene at Ashford Academy he would have been happy just being normal with his friends at the student cousel even if it was a lie but he realizes now that he has already pave a road in which he has people willing to follow him to the very end and must lead them to to what he promised for, Suzaku has to stick to his goal so that the death of his father would not have be in vain and it goes back to him not wanting the responsiblity of killing weigh on his shoulders since he now realize that his people don't care for their own good as long as they see results which Zero has demonstrated to them regardless if they die which is the same ideal his fater thought when Britannia irst invaded Japan.
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2008-05-28, 15:32 | Link #1300 |
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
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Huzawha? I'm sorry, but there's one glaring mistake in this sentence, and that's that almost anybody joins the military because they like killing people. You'll be hard-pressed to find any military where this is the case, especially with volunteers. Almost the entire Western world relies on volunteer militaries, but none of them are filled with people who chose to because they get a high when killing others. And I somehow doubt you can make an argument that anyone joins the Britannian army for the prospect of being deliberately selected to carry out death sentences.
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