Chapter 210 [Manga] Discussion

[brightredglow]

Originally Posted by The Small One

I don't know it if it was in the manga, but I remember a scene in the anime, in which Rukia and Renji (as kids) meet Kaien in the slums; he gave them something to eat and told them, that he also grew up there.

Sorry, but Bedlam is right. That wasn't Kaien. That is a nameless shinigami person who is never seen from again. And since that scene isn't in the manga (it was added in the anime only), it doesn't apply to the manga discussion.

It is Soi Fon who says that the Shibas are a fallen noble house during her battle with Yoriuchi so we can presume that while Kuukaku doesn't "act" like a noble, her lineage is that of a noble.

[Wolcik]

and how would all Shiba have the same eyes, each of them has thouse lashes, and they have strange jaws Ganju has a big one, Kukkaku has a wicked smile, and Kaien... don't remember anything strange about his. and They all have the same hair they must be related by blood.
But than again Rukia and Byakuya have similar eyebrows and similar hair too :P but Rukia's head is just so big

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by The Small One

I don't think the point is the lineage, but more the upbringing.
However, the fact that this wasn't Kaien means, that we have no idea, of when the Shibas lost their status as a noble clan.
On the other hand, I still think, that they lost this status a long time, before Kaien and Kuukaku were "born". Because if their were raised noble, their behavior should be a bit different. And when Rukia thought of her past, she said, that Kaien was the first one, who didn't treat her anything special. If he were also a noble, I think it would have been mentioned at this point.

And I think, the Shibas must have lost their nobility, before Yoruichi lost hers (which was 100 years ago). Because Yoruichi knew, that she had to search for Kuukaku's house in the slums. This means, that the Shibas already lived outside the Shinigami city, when Urahra and Yoruichi escaped from Soul Society.
And Rukia only became Shinigami until about 50 years ago.

that's right.
Shiba's clan has fallen over 100 years ago, but Kukkaku is old enough to be one of those that could couse it
Ganju was a little boy in flashback so he must have been born in slums
we don't know anything about Kaien... Byakuya had respect for Kaien that would fight the law like Ichigo (in manga), but we don't know did it was because he was a noble or just VC that Byakuya remembered him well

[brightredglow]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Okay. So I mistook this guy.

I was just wondering where it was in the story that Kaien said he grew up in the slums because I didn't recall that at all so I asked.

My memory, although faulty on other details, was fine in this case.

As for Kuukaku and the Shibas, I view them as being of noble lineage. Since Kaien was of a noble lineage, he probably wouldn't have been as easily impressed with the Kuchiki name. Ganju is very aware of the Kuchiki history in a way that Renji doesn't even mention. And Kuukaku obviously has enough money to move her house and keep two retainers and given the way she trains Ganju to "be in front next time" infers that, in her actions, the Shibas have a reputation to uphold. Lastly, (and I may be wrong here) only noble family can bear offspring in Soul Society. The fact that Ganji, Kaien and Kuukaku have similar traits and are a "real family" is indicative of their noble lineage.

That's my opinion. You can disagree with it, but it isn't based on nothing. The manga does give evidence that the Shibas, while a fallen noble house, still retain a pride and bloodline of a noble family.