[MANGA] what went wrong in bleach?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Anybody know what happened to Hueco Mundo and all the remaining arrancars? (yes, I'm talking about Neliel & co.) Did they get destroyed/executed by SS? I'm kinda in the dark here.

Oh yeah, what went wrong with Bleach? I'd say many of its characters are unfleshed-out then we're introduced to yet another group of characters. Is it really necessary to introduce us to fullbringers when we barely know anything about those vizard guys from the previous arc? Also, as many other already mentioned, the recycling plot is tiring to follow. It's basically just new enemy - power up cycle without a more interesting objective other than saving someone(s).

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Anybody know what happened to Hueco Mundo and all the remaining arrancars? (yes, I'm talking about Neliel & co.) Did they get destroyed/executed by SS? I'm kinda in the dark here.

Join the club. The club known as the entire Bleach fandom. No one knows because Kubo has yet to answer this rather blatant hole in the story.

[Chiisai Kuma]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

What went wrong in Bleach, some retard is still letting Kubo write it just give him the pencil to draw and let someone else write everything, at this point I'm pretty sure LittleKuriboh could do better at writing a story than Kubo.

of course littlekuriboh could do a better job, even takahata 101 could,

[Om Nerabdator]

Originally Posted by rei_ayanami17

fanservice. And fillers are meant as fanservice.

then i want more boobies!!!!

Enter orihime!!!

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

What went wrong in Bleach, some retard is still letting Kubo write it just give him the pencil to draw and let someone else write everything, at this point I'm pretty sure LittleKuriboh could do better at writing a story than Kubo.

God i agree with this so much!!

[kitten320]

Agreed, Kubo is a great artists but as a story teller he tottally fails... I wonder if SS arc was really planned by him 0_0

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Haak

Join the club. The club known as the entire Bleach fandom. No one knows because Kubo has yet to answer this rather blatant hole in the story.

Yeah, I've been on the boat for quite some time now. Still, I'm a casual fan who never go so far as to check what happened on the backstage . I never thought that Kubo has problem with the concept or planning of this series.

In fact, I've only check out the whole Aizen/Hueco Mundo arc after my friend told me that it's over. In my opinion, the arc sucks. It's not more than a vehicle for the shinigamis co., vizard co. & arrancar co. to display their 'real' powers. The plot is poor. It reminds me of Samurai Deeper Kyo manga all over again. The time skip after that arc is also bothering me. Many things are left hanging. Maybe KT save them for another plot twists later on.

[toriko]

too many charaters in bleach.
How many captains and vice captains are there
in soul society? What about Ichigo friends?
Then you have the vaizards.
And now you have this whole new group of
fullbringers.
Nobody gets properly fleshed out at all.
He intro'ed all those Espadas. and look how fast no 1 to 3 was killed.
And his character all use the same template.
See the similiarities between that small vaizard
girl and the small fullbringer girl?
And all his big breasted female characters.
Heck, I can't even remember most of the character's names...
Too many characters hamper character development.characters in bleach have become bland and boring and all characters are act like morons who want look badass by giving lame poses in front of plain background,the only character with a bit of personality and less annoying is rangiku matsumoto.

[Lord of Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

In fact, I've only check out the whole Aizen/Hueco Mundo arc after my friend told me that it's over. In my opinion, the arc sucks. It's not more than a vehicle for the shinigamis co., vizard co. & arrancar co. to display their 'real' powers.

Yeah it's called "development"..


85 % Of character development in Bleach takes place during the battles. Through banter, flashbacks and showcasing abilities

Ichigo is a Shinigami/Hollow Hybrid

HM developed Hollows and Aizen's plan

FKT developed Shinigami & Arrancars and Aizen

If he doesn't showcase the Shinigami and how they fight then how can he show you why being a Hybrid of both Shinigami and Arrancar is much more powerful

Kidou had serious development and we learned the different ways you can combined them from Momo.

We also learned what each division specialty was and that Gin had the Emo Division

The Vizards also got development too but then they fall under Shinigami and Arrancar, so it should go without me saying

Not to mention all non believers learned that Aizen was not all hype and seeing him curbstomp everyone was a true pleasure to watch


I loved FKT arc but then I love Bleach so I guess I would

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

me. Many things are left hanging. Maybe KT save them for another plot twists later on.

He said he planned for Bleach to go on another 10 years. Why would he tell you everything at once? I never understand this complaint. It's not as if the manga is over...it's ongoing.

That's almost as baffling to me as the "Another Cliffhanger" complaint

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

He said he planned for Bleach to go on another 10 years. Why would he tell you everything at once? I never understand this complaint. It's not as if the manga is over...it's ongoing.

That's almost as baffling to me as the "Another Cliffhanger" complaint

The problem is that it's a very jarring absence of information that breaks the willing suspension of disbelief. It causes a problem there and then. It's no good saying that an explanation will be provided later. It's far too late then. The explanation should be provided as soon as the problem arises. Actually it's far better to provide an explanation before the problem even has a chance to occur. It's called planning ahead properly.

It's always strange when there's an absence of information that you would expect a character to follow up on and not doing so (Like making sure Grimmjow and Nel are okay afterwards). How can you expect to connect with a character when they frequently act against any sort of logic or common sense?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

He said he planned for Bleach to go on another 10 years. Why would he tell you everything at once? I never understand this complaint. It's not as if the manga is over...it's ongoing.

That's almost as baffling to me as the "Another Cliffhanger" complaint

What I meant in my post back then is that many things FROM Hueco Mundo Arc are left hanging. I wasn't talking about the story in its entirety. It's ridiculous since, beside Aizen, the focus of that arc is all about arrancars and Hueco Mundo.

Let me give you examples of other series that have similar arcs which manage to end them well if not admirably:

Dragon Ball (Z): Piccolo arc, Saiyan arc, Frieza arc, Cell arc, Majin Bhuu arc
Hunter x Hunter: Hunter exam arc, Killua's home arc, the Spider arc,
Naruto: Haku & Zabuza arc, Chuunin exam/Konoha Crush arc, Tsunade/Godaime arc.
honorable mention: One Piece, Yu Yu Hakusho, Flame of Recca, etc

Sure, there are still mysteries in the end of each arc but they didn't cut off something which originated the arc (like the arrancars and Hueco Mundo in the end of its arc in Bleach) and then leaps years after it. As a comparison: how would you feel toward Frieza arc in DB(Z) if the maker(s) completely cut off Planet Namek and the fate of its dwellers in the end of the arc? Surely you'd feel cheated (assuming you're following Dragon Ball). All in all, it's just my opinion and the provided examples are to make you understand it better. Peace

[kitten320]

Showing abilities is not a development =/

They were there from the begining but characters never used them, nothing changed in them because they used them now.

If he doesn't showcase the Shinigami and how they fight then how can he show you why being a Hybrid of both Shinigami and Arrancar is much more powerful

All hybrids and Arrancars happened to be a joke in the end, captains owned there. So everything was wasted.

You are trying to protect series which had lost its value and logic long time ago. Right now Bleach is nothing more than a show that people mostly watch out of habit now, not out of interest anymore.

Aizen arc was the longest, the most dragged out and boring... it was the same cycle all over again, nothing new happened. Bad guys simply died as usual. All that's changed is that Ichigo has another bunch of power upsa nd SS learned to respect him more.

[Guernsey]

If he doesn't showcase the Shinigami and how they fight then how can he show you why being a Hybrid of both Shinigami and Arrancar is much more powerful

All hybrids and Arrancars happened to be a joke in the end, captains owned there. So everything was wasted.

They had too many characters to follow, I cannot follow them all without wondering what exactly is going on. Bleach wasted a perfectly good plot, the manga should had explained Arrancar thing thoroughly and the Vizards as well.

Aizen arc was the longest, the most dragged out and boring... it was the same cycle all over again, nothing new happened. Bad guys simply died as usual. All that's changed is that Ichigo has another bunch of power up sand SS learned to respect him more.

Not to mention that Aizen as a character is flat, they didn't really dive into his background and he just seemed to perfect. Even Dio Brando, Cell and Sensui had their backgrounds, personality flaws and plausible weaknesses, Aizen on the other hand is too perfect and he is so 'smart' that he apparently planned the whole manga up to the Decide arc. While Aizen doesn't explain his powers, he is also way too powerful and his zanpakuto isn't even that hax either. Aizen is a good villain but as a character, he is ridiculously flat and does come across as rather sueish.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

Not to mention that Aizen as a character is flat, they didn't really dive into his background and he just seemed to perfect.

Yeah. Apparently Kubo never had any intentions of developing Aizen's character. He seriously thought that increasing his mysterious would increase his appeal. I can't say I necessarily agreed with that decision. Though after making Ichigo shed a little insight on his past (by explaining how lonely he felt), I now feel like perhaps keeping Aizen's background a mystery is the lesser of the two evils. Because with the direction Kubo seemed to begin leaning towards, I felt disappointed.

[rei_ayanami17]

^ I agree. Kubo had a bad habit of bringing up things then letting them drop, seemingly for the hell of it. Darn it! As if I'm going to buy that crap of Gin's flashback story. Giving just a glimpse of truth about Gin's insight is really and the most shit compare to all of the things other see that makes Bleach shit!!! There is lot more I wanted to know why he join the conspiration. I can't accept his reason "just to avenge for Rangiku". It sucks!! Ruining the creepy and sarcastic Gin's character at all. Anyway....(-3-) teh, as if ', going to believe that Gin is dead --NO WAY! NEVER!

And yeah, actually I'm not convinced with Ichigo's dialogue back then that he felt loneliness in Aizen's blade. I feel like he's just reflecting/shifting his own feeling to Aizen since Zangetsu said farewell and now he's alone. I know when Aizen introduce his real self for the first time, he's really an arrogant and he really lust for power and reign. He said back then that Captain Aizen is the one that is facade and don't really exist in the first place. Therefore, I believed he's really the bad guy of all the bad guy. Otherwise , if Kubo is trolling, Aizen interest in building up Ichigo will just really end up to his own demise. Then, I will call Bleach b*tch!

[sayde]

Originally Posted by rei_ayanami17

actually I'm not convinced with Ichigo's dialogue back then that he felt loneliness in Aizen's blade. I feel like he's just reflecting/shifting his own feeling to Aizen since Zangetsu said farewell and now he's alone.

I won't disagree with any of your other points. This is the only issue I wanted to highlight. I know in this particular case, the truth can be hard to accept, but Kubo confirmed Ichigo's words in the most recent official Bleach databook.

http://athakra.livejournal.com/1009.html

Scroll down the page and read "Fact 2" under the brief section titled "WHAT MADE AIZEN MOVE".

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by toriko

too many charaters in bleach.
How many captains and vice captains are there
in soul society? What about Ichigo friends?
Then you have the vaizards.
And now you have this whole new group of
fullbringers.
Nobody gets properly fleshed out at all.
He intro'ed all those Espadas. and look how fast no 1 to 3 was killed.
And his character all use the same template.
See the similiarities between that small vaizard
girl and the small fullbringer girl?
And all his big breasted female characters.
Heck, I can't even remember most of the character's names...
Too many characters hamper character development.characters in bleach have become bland and boring and all characters are act like morons who want look badass by giving lame poses in front of plain background,the only character with a bit of personality and less annoying is rangiku matsumoto.

having too many characters is not really problem in the hands of a brilliant author. i've always complained about this before, but when i started reading one piece i realized it's not about the number of characters, it's about how the author deals with them.

He said he planned for Bleach to go on another 10 years. Why would he tell you everything at once? I never understand this complaint. It's not as if the manga is over...it's ongoing.

That's almost as baffling to me as the "Another Cliffhanger" complaint

no offense but, what other manga series are you currently reading besides bleach and ao no exorcist? i would give you examples of other manga and how their authors handled their plots but it would be completely useless if you're not familiar with them.

The problem is that it's a very jarring absence of information that breaks the willing suspension of disbelief. It causes a problem there and then. It's no good saying that an explanation will be provided later. It's far too late then. The explanation should be provided as soon as the problem arises. Actually it's far better to provide an explanation before the problem even has a chance to occur. It's called planning ahead properly.

exactly! a good author would know when to reveal the answer to a current mystery and when not to for certain reasons like it would break the flow of the story or spoil it. but to leave characters, like the arrancar, hanging like that without us knowing what really happened to them, that's not going to spoil the plot, will it? and what about kon? what happened to that little perv? kubo left out that little detail too. he may not be important but he's still a character. i mean, the little guy has fans too, they're wondering what happened to him.

you seem a big fan of One piece, I'm also a big fan of One piece but sadly I can't manage to keep up with Sir Oda's wide imagination..........darn it! i tend to forget some characters that is very important to the past of the main cast like Brook with Laboon because of its wide universe........"i was like who the hell is that Laboon at first?".......... I think that is the ONLY thing I can complain about One piece especially that they now in New world saga......more characters will pop up.

but that's the beauty about oda, he can connect and reconnect old and new characters and make you believe that he had planned it all along (which he probably did). the guy is a walking, talking creative treasure trove. he never runs out of original ideas and he knows how to put a spin on old ones. arakawa is the same with fma. she doesn't waste characters either. her characters would seem random at first but then you start to realize how they're connected and you just go "aaahhhh, so that's how it is..." brilliant woman that arakawa!

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by sayde

I won't disagree with any of your other points. This is the only issue I wanted to highlight. I know in this particular case, the truth can be hard to accept, but Kubo confirmed Ichigo's words in the most recent official Bleach databook.

http://athakra.livejournal.com/1009.html

Scroll down the page and read "Fact 2" under the brief section titled "WHAT MADE AIZEN MOVE".

Aizen: Its so Lonely being so powerful... maybe I should just trying being more sociable so I can make some friends... No Wait, I got a brilliant plan! All I have to do to overcome my loneliness that was brought on by being too powerful is to become even MORE powerful! Also murder people!

Step 1: Become God
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit loneliness gone!

Though another thing I can't help but notice in that databook

the Espada who were formed by himself weren't more than time-buying chess pieces

The true purpose to an interesting group of villains was just to waste time; that was the limit of their importance...
Even in death the espada continue to disappoint. Y'know I long since been saying that it seem pointless for Aizen to bother with the espada since he was more powerful than all of them combined, but it seems that even Kubo recognized it... Though only partially; Aizen was so ungodly powerful, even without that thing in his chest that he didn't NEED them to waste time as he can handle himself just fine; Guy was so powerful that even all of the captains combined could not touch him... except yamaji maybe, so wonderweiss was necessary.

And talk about overly convoluted planning by Aizen... Aizen could have just WAITED and he would have achieved the same result. If he didn't send out his arrancars, did not kidnap orihime and did not launch a full out attack on FKT, he could have just waited in HM until his transformation was complete. He didn't need the espada at all...

[Guernsey]

^ A classic ase plotted a perfectly good waste. Kubo had interesting villains as well as some intriguing ideas but the execution was less than desirable. It was all a big mess that somehow got even more convoluted in the end.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

^ A classic ase plotted a perfectly good waste. Kubo had interesting villains as well as some intriguing ideas but the execution was less than desirable. It was all a big mess that somehow got even more convoluted in the end.

Er..I'm pretty sure you mean "wasted a perfectly good plot".

[rei_ayanami17]

Originally Posted by sayde

I won't disagree with any of your other points. This is the only issue I wanted to highlight. I know in this particular case, the truth can be hard to accept, but Kubo confirmed Ichigo's words in the most recent official Bleach databook.

http://athakra.livejournal.com/1009.html

Scroll down the page and read "Fact 2" under the brief section titled "WHAT MADE AIZEN MOVE".

thanks for this, ........though it seems like those two statements/facts are completely contradictory to one another.

EDIT: *sigh* Actually, I really can’t say anything but feel disappointed, after all those years, Gin and Aizen’s character just end up like that. Bleach true strength lies in each cast, which can bring about mystery, plot twist and other aspect of awesomeness, and cover up for somewhat lacking storyline. yeah, it really lacks story but what good about it is each lovely character create their own story And, I doubt Kubo can redeem at all those great characters he’d just ruin. Darn it! Why does Kubo have to stick to typical shounen villain personality where he’s really wishing for his own demise because he feels that freakin’ “loneliness?” I really thought Aizen will take a unique path for a supervillain……………. Teh, whatever, as long as Rukia is still around, I still read Bleach but don’t misinterpret me; I’m still not out of my mind to say that Bleach is great, or at least good---- please, not now......

Originally Posted by ronin myael

but that's the beauty about oda, he can connect and reconnect old and new characters and make you believe that he had planned it all along (which he probably did). the guy is a walking, talking creative treasure trove. he never runs out of original ideas and he knows how to put a spin on old ones. arakawa is the same with fma. she doesn't waste characters either. her characters would seem random at first but then you start to realize how they're connected and you just go "aaahhhh, so that's how it is..." brilliant woman that arakawa!

I absolutely agree with you. As long as Sir Oda can handle his characters and his story, One piece will always be a great manga and anime.