AnimeSuki Forums

**Klashikari** · 2012-09-02, 08:54

I don't buy Ichiki's blog post either, at least not completely.
I wouldn't be surprised if he sincerely feels things went out of hand, but saying "things were taken out of context, such like the punishment game etc" is totally ludicrous.

The way how things were handled after the event is a testimony of that: why Terashima and Kanemoto were so excited after all of this, if it was really a staged prank only? It doesn't make sense to delay the conclusion of such prank with a goofy "it was all a stunt and Ichiki had fun as well!". Furthermore, Ichiki admitting he didn't know just points way more on the prospect it was a bully treatment than really a joke (which is, beyond crude considering the industry context thrown in there).

Also, no matter how "out of context" the staff and Ichiki think people took all of this, there is little doubts about how people acted during the event itself. Even moreso with all circumstances given with the post-event tidbits.

And honestly, I think the whole issue would be left to rest if only they really put a public apology instead. There are already enough collateral damage as far as it goes, so being stubborn in their pretense it was really a staged joke just add insult to the injury even further.
At least I sure hope people would use "civil" methods to show their protest towards that despicable behaviour, especially that Yamanaka shouldn't scott free *yet again*.

frivolity · 2012-09-02, 09:49

I am hesitant to make inferences about the truthfulness of Ichiki's blog post because the accounts of all these events are fairly vague and it is indeed difficult to figure out the context of most of the things that went on. We're relying on bits and pieces of information drawn from various corners of the internet and some of the evidence is extremely doubtful e.g: the link between this incident and Sugita ignoring Aoki's VA is quite dubious because there could easily have been other reasons. In addition, on a personal level, I don't exactly trust internet CSI brigades because personal experience tells me that they come to the wrong conclusion most of the time.

Regardless, whether or not his blog post tells the whole story of the incidents is, in my view, none of our business. He wrote that entry stating that he harbours no ill will and considers the current developments to be out of hand. I think we should respect his decision instead of becoming real-life Taichis (or "selfless freaks"

) and trying to make an issue out of an incident that the victim wants to put to rest.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-09-02, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by frivolity

We're relying on bits and pieces of information drawn from various corners of the internet and some of the evidence is extremely doubtful e.g: the link between this incident and Sugita ignoring Aoki's VA is quite dubious because there could easily have been other reasons. In addition, on a personal level, I don't exactly trust internet CSI brigades because personal experience tells me that they come to the wrong conclusion most of the time.

Sounds like the perfect case for Oreki Houtarou.

Agent86 · 2012-09-02, 10:37

Could the DVD-only episodes be cancelled if sales are too low? I don't think they were ever going to have Bakemonogatari or OreImo level sales figures, but the boycott seems like it could drive sales well below any profitability floor.

minakichan · 2012-09-02, 11:39

Maybe they threatened to shock him as a batsu game if he didn't say it was all taken out of context.

But seriously, if he's really the publicity manager (orz) and his job relies on KokoroCo doing well in sales, he has a pretty good reason to issue a statement like this regardless of his true feelings. I also agree that standing up for himself wouldn't be in his best interest if he wants to stay in the industry...

Guardian Enzo · 2012-09-02, 12:05

Even if Ichiki wasn't "forced" to make this statement, it's naive to think he could do anything else. From his perspective the damage has been done - for his own career he has no choice but to take the high road, even if the perps don't. If he pours fuel on the fire (which is burning out of control without any help from him, anyway) he's only making it harder for himself in the future.

Agent86 · 2012-09-02, 12:29

http://blog.livedoor.jp/terashimatak...s/1972262.html

And now Terashima has responded, pretty much the same way as Ichiki. He does add that he really and truly is Ichiki's friend.

serenade_beta · 2012-09-02, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent86

http://blog.livedoor.jp/terashimatak...s/1972262.html

And now Terashima has responded, pretty much the same way as Ichiki. He does add that he really and truly is Ichiki's friend.

*starts reading*
Hmm hmm, I see, I see.
*reads the parts where he says that what is on the net is a misunderstanding and done purposely so people would get the wrong message*

Quote:

不確定な情報が飛び交い、編集をされた言動が真実のように、
一部分だけを切り取ってそれが全部であるように伝わってしまう。

発信者の意図とは、100％伝わるとは限らないものです。
制作側の意図や理想とする形、事情などは、お客様に全く関係の無い事。

............HAH?

Guardian Enzo · 2012-09-02, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent86

http://blog.livedoor.jp/terashimatak...s/1972262.html

And now Terashima has responded, pretty much the same way as Ichiki. He does add that he really and truly is Ichiki's friend.

No true friend could every stand by and see what happened to Ichiki in that video happen, much less be a ringleader. More crocodile tears and false apologies.

**Klashikari** · 2012-09-02, 13:04

I have no idea what infuriates me the most: that Terashima pretends everything is just a misunderstanding or his claim to be Ichiki's friend.
Really, they can't be even more obvious with the timing of all announcements and blog posts emerging recently.

***relentlessflame*** · 2012-09-02, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Really, they can't be even more obvious with the timing of all announcements and blog posts emerging recently.

Really, what do you expect them to do? As soon as one party makes a statement, the other parties have to make a statement. This should be understood as good business practice without having to be told. All these people have to keep working together in the same industry. None of the voice actors were ever going to fall on their sword over this. It's not necessarily a sign that anyone was coerced, but I think they would all just know intuitively that they need to make a statement and try to restore order to their careers (and to the industry that pays them).

Guardian Enzo · 2012-09-02, 13:54

Issuing a sincere apology instead of parsing words to escape blame isn't falling on your sword. If anything, by doing so they'd be doing the best possible thing for their careers.

Sumeragi · 2012-09-02, 14:04

The fact people don't accept an apology as sincere based on some absurd double standards is a bigger problem in my mind.

***relentlessflame*** · 2012-09-02, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Issuing a sincere apology instead of parsing words to escape blame isn't falling on your sword. If anything, by doing so they'd be doing the best possible thing for their careers.

But they can't make a statement that contradicts the official company line. You should know that would be suicidal for them. So whatever apology they give is going to follow "this was only a stunt; we weren't trying to hurt anyone; we're sorry for the trouble we've caused" line. And pretty much all the main people involved will issue that sort of statement (no doubt partly as CYA), and they all waited for the company line to be published before making a statement of their own.

This may all seem disgustingly conformist, but this is business. You have to parse the statements to find the truth within, but that's how that industry works. I don't think we can assume that they are lying in their apology either, but expecting a tell-all confession isn't realistic. They have to close ranks.

Guardian Enzo · 2012-09-02, 14:12

The point is, though, that by refusing to apologize the company is hurting everyone - the victim, themselves, and the seiyuu and producer. "I'm sorry it was misinterpreted" is the oldest non-apology apology in the book. Because the intent is so transparently driven by self-interest, all this PR is succeeding only in digging themselves a deeper hole.

While it's true that the seiyuu couldn't issue a statement that directly contradicts the company line, there's still plenty of room for Terashima to have done more than he did. All he needed to do was add something along the lines of, "In the end, Ichiki-san was hurt by this - and for that, I take full responsibility and sincerely apologize. While that wasn't my intention, it doesn't change the fact, and I take full responsibility for my actions." That doesn't contradict the idiotic PR spin, but it makes it clear that he's at least saying he's genuinely sorry. All his current statement does is say "I didn't do anything wrong - it's the world's fault for blowing it out of proportion."

Kirarakim · 2012-09-02, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

The fact people don't accept an apology as sincere based on some absurd double standards is a bigger problem in my mind.

Nothing about the apology comes off as sincere. Of course we all knew this was going to happen when we see that someone as high up as a producer was involved.

Personally it doesn't really matter what we think. The apology was to save face with their customers, the Japanese fan base. But that doesn't mean I have to stop thinking this whole thing was very wrong, and this business like not really an apology leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Mappy · 2012-09-02, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

"I'm sorry it was misinterpreted" is the oldest non-apology apology in the book.

Right next to "I'm sorry if I've offended anyone". It's the chasm that exists between understanding that what they did was wrong on many levels and arrogantly brushing off the affair in a manner that says they really don't think what they did was wrong, that is the most galling thing about this affair.

hyl · 2012-09-02, 15:13

The problem with an apology is that you are admitting that you were wrong and it will give the people on the net more right and justification for their flames/insults or whatever the heck they were doing.
To say that it was all a "misunderstanding" might be for them a slightly worse alternative than adding more fuel to all the flaming on the net. Of course lot's of people won't buy it , but neither would an apology worked for them.

**Klashikari** · 2012-09-02, 15:16

It is basically a situation where you are stuck between a stone and a hard place. The difference is that should the apology is done properly, it might quench people anger to a certain degree, and might be accepted over time, if nothing of the sort shows up again.

OTOH, feigning ignorance regarding the wrongdoing here will just spark even more issue, as it basically means the ones responsible in the mess don't even see the problem in there.
The obvious point would have been not to proceed with such tasteless to begin with. But once done, you better take responsibility for it, instead of dragging it for no damn reason. A complete different scale, but the whole affair with TEPCO conceiling the dirty stuff about fukushima is a good example of what happens when you don't take responsibility right off the bat, and get flamed even more on the long run.

rogerpepitone · 2012-09-02, 16:24

Would the prank qualify as fraud? A casual reading of wikipedia suggests it would be such under US law.

2012-09-02, 08:54	Link #201
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	I don't buy Ichiki's blog post either, at least not completely. I wouldn't be surprised if he sincerely feels things went out of hand, but saying "things were taken out of context, such like the punishment game etc" is totally ludicrous. The way how things were handled after the event is a testimony of that: why Terashima and Kanemoto were so excited after all of this, if it was really a staged prank only? It doesn't make sense to delay the conclusion of such prank with a goofy "it was all a stunt and Ichiki had fun as well!". Furthermore, Ichiki admitting he didn't know just points way more on the prospect it was a bully treatment than really a joke (which is, beyond crude considering the industry context thrown in there). Also, no matter how "out of context" the staff and Ichiki think people took all of this, there is little doubts about how people acted during the event itself. Even moreso with all circumstances given with the post-event tidbits. And honestly, I think the whole issue would be left to rest if only they really put a public apology instead. There are already enough collateral damage as far as it goes, so being stubborn in their pretense it was really a staged joke just add insult to the injury even further. At least I sure hope people would use "civil" methods to show their protest towards that despicable behaviour, especially that Yamanaka shouldn't scott free yet again. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter] Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-09-02 at 10:22. Reason: fixed typos

2012-09-02, 10:37	Link #204
Agent86 Yuki-ist and Hina-geek Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Los Angeles	Could the DVD-only episodes be cancelled if sales are too low? I don't think they were ever going to have Bakemonogatari or OreImo level sales figures, but the boycott seems like it could drive sales well below any profitability floor. __________________

2012-09-02, 12:29	Link #207
Agent86 Yuki-ist and Hina-geek Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Los Angeles	http://blog.livedoor.jp/terashimatak...s/1972262.html And now Terashima has responded, pretty much the same way as Ichiki. He does add that he really and truly is Ichiki's friend. __________________

2012-09-02, 13:04	Link #210
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	I have no idea what infuriates me the most: that Terashima pretends everything is just a misunderstanding or his claim to be Ichiki's friend. Really, they can't be even more obvious with the timing of all announcements and blog posts emerging recently. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2012-09-02, 15:16	Link #219
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	It is basically a situation where you are stuck between a stone and a hard place. The difference is that should the apology is done properly, it might quench people anger to a certain degree, and might be accepted over time, if nothing of the sort shows up again. OTOH, feigning ignorance regarding the wrongdoing here will just spark even more issue, as it basically means the ones responsible in the mess don't even see the problem in there. The obvious point would have been not to proceed with such tasteless to begin with. But once done, you better take responsibility for it, instead of dragging it for no damn reason. A complete different scale, but the whole affair with TEPCO conceiling the dirty stuff about fukushima is a good example of what happens when you don't take responsibility right off the bat, and get flamed even more on the long run. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2012-09-02, 09:49	Link #202
frivolity My posts are frivolous Join Date: Nov 2008 Age: 35	I am hesitant to make inferences about the truthfulness of Ichiki's blog post because the accounts of all these events are fairly vague and it is indeed difficult to figure out the context of most of the things that went on. We're relying on bits and pieces of information drawn from various corners of the internet and some of the evidence is extremely doubtful e.g: the link between this incident and Sugita ignoring Aoki's VA is quite dubious because there could easily have been other reasons. In addition, on a personal level, I don't exactly trust internet CSI brigades because personal experience tells me that they come to the wrong conclusion most of the time. Regardless, whether or not his blog post tells the whole story of the incidents is, in my view, none of our business. He wrote that entry stating that he harbours no ill will and considers the current developments to be out of hand. I think we should respect his decision instead of becoming real-life Taichis (or "selfless freaks" ) and trying to make an issue out of an incident that the victim wants to put to rest.

2012-09-02, 11:39	Link #205
minakichan Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006	Maybe they threatened to shock him as a batsu game if he didn't say it was all taken out of context. But seriously, if he's really the publicity manager (orz) and his job relies on KokoroCo doing well in sales, he has a pretty good reason to issue a statement like this regardless of his true feelings. I also agree that standing up for himself wouldn't be in his best interest if he wants to stay in the industry...

2012-09-02, 14:04	Link #213
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	The fact people don't accept an apology as sincere based on some absurd double standards is a bigger problem in my mind.

2012-09-02, 15:13	Link #218
hyl reading #hikaributts Join Date: Feb 2009	The problem with an apology is that you are admitting that you were wrong and it will give the people on the net more right and justification for their flames/insults or whatever the heck they were doing. To say that it was all a "misunderstanding" might be for them a slightly worse alternative than adding more fuel to all the flaming on the net. Of course lot's of people won't buy it , but neither would an apology worked for them.

2012-09-02, 16:24	Link #220
rogerpepitone Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	Would the prank qualify as fraud? A casual reading of wikipedia suggests it would be such under US law. __________________ Umineko notes: Various (1-4) Ep 3 (w/ red text) Ep 4 (w/ red text) . My projects: Higurashi Daybreak - in need of translator Higurashi DS Translation - in need of translator Never7: The End of Infinity - Finished! I/O: In progress 12Riven: In progress