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Rising Dragon · 2012-09-01, 19:30

"Fact" for Destiny is unreliably flexible anyway--it gets way, way too many retcons. We still don't have proper confirmation on the origins of the Strike Freedom (stolen ZAFT prototype meant for mass production, or built from the ground up for Kira's personal use?), or on the actual reactor the Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice uses or the presence on N-Jammer Cancelers in the machine.

Rickketik · 2012-09-01, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

"Fact" for Destiny is unreliably flexible anyway--it gets way, way too many retcons. We still don't have proper confirmation on the origins of the Strike Freedom (stolen ZAFT prototype meant for mass production, or built from the ground up for Kira's personal use?), or on the actual reactor the Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice uses or the presence on N-Jammer Cancelers in the machine.

True. I think that C.E has a few really cool and interesting technologies like Phase Shift armor, but it's all so poorly explained. And I'm actually curious about the Justice and Freedom's origins as well.

monster · 2012-09-01, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

When we talk Power, Freedom wins over Destiny. But Speed on the atmosphere: Destiny has it covered.

Sure, I'm just saying that Destiny is not so overwhelmingly fast that Strike Freedom couldn't stand a chance. In other words, it's not that Strike Freedom is necessarily faster or even as fast as Destiny, but it's fast enough and maneuverable enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Removing the Super DRAGOONs doesn't mean removing the wings, you know. The Super DRAGOONs are just dead weight in the atmosphere. Remove them and not only would the Strike Freedom be that much lighter and faster, but it'd have access to its Voiture Lumiere.

Removing the DRAGOONs may increase Strike Freedom's speed, but it also may reduce the efficiency of the HiMAT Mode, and thus, it may decrease maneuverability in the atmosphere.

Destined_Fate · 2012-09-02, 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by quagmire

His rage didn't consume him then though. Sure it was a tool that helped him greatly, but when he went further into his rage after ep42, he fought to a tie with Kira and got owned by Athrun.

Shinn is a good pilot, but his rage can cost him if he lets it consume him.

It's easier to fight Kira at his fullest since he doesn't know Kira and hates him. Even after Athrun's betrayal and return Shinn couldn't fight him at his fullest and always lost it. After all, Shinn looked up to Athrun and didn't want to kill him even though Athrun was a traitor. It took a lot of pushing by Rey to get Shinn to do the deed and even than he regretted it.

Still, Shinn's face when Kira and Athrun returned in new Gundams was priceless. What does Shinn have to do to keep those guys dead? He already stabbed through their cockpits, there's no way a normal person could have survived. It's so strange that they didn't even bother showing how they managed to evade death and just shows them waking up elsewhere with a bandage on their face. No scars though, that would ruin their sexiness.

BladeEntity · 2012-09-02, 00:51

I thought they showed Kira surviving reallg well, the ASS missed the cockpit and Kira turns his nuclear reactor off in time, and Cagali fishes him out of the water... and he lives

Washu-Chan · 2012-09-02, 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeEntity

I thought they showed Kira surviving reallg well, the ASS missed the cockpit and Kira turns his nuclear reactor off in time, and Cagali fishes him out of the water... and he lives

And I already discussed this in this post:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...56#post4330056

In short...

In Kira's mind: "You didn't win, I lost."

Znozzy · 2012-09-02, 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by quagmire

I did say his rage was a tool for him didn't I? All I said he just can't let it consume him like it started to do after episode 42 when Freedom and Athrun returned(hence why he snapped in the last episode).

He snapped in the last episode because it became too much for him, he didnt snap in episode 42.

His rage has always consumed him, he has been pretty much pissed off nonstop when he fights since episode 1 until the final episode where Athrun finally disabled him.

Hell, Shinn's motivation for being a pilot is derived from revenge and hatred.

There is nothing that prooves that his rage is preventing him from piloting at full capability in any episode.

As for the final episode, Athrun is a much better pilot than Shinn. Shinn's loss had nothing to do with him being pissed off, it had with him targetting Lunamaria to make Athrun go SEED mode and finally stop holding back, if you rewatch the episode, Athrun had no intent on hurting Shinn while Shinn actively tried to cut Athrun down.

Quote:

Even a non-raging Shinn could have defeated Athrun. Athrun wasn't trying to fight trying to protect Meyrin and he was in a vastly inferior machine.

Speculation, Athrun was holding his own pretty fine until Shinn enterd SEED mode and went fullon retard

tetsuo69 · 2012-09-02, 12:25

a bit offtopic but i think had kira been train as a military soldier he would be unmatched.
if im not mistaken Durandal points this out when giving destiny to shinn and i gotta agreed cause had kira been train, he wouldn't have his no kill policy or he wouldn't hold back. and he would also think of strategies in mid battle and avoid trying something that isn't working like in gundam seed when facing one of the druggies gundams and with destroy gundam.

I Fail at Life · 2012-09-02, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsuo69

a bit offtopic but i think had kira been train as a military soldier he would be unmatched.
if im not mistaken Durandal points this out when giving destiny to shinn and i gotta agreed cause had kira been train, he wouldn't have his no kill policy or he wouldn't hold back. and he would also think of strategies in mid battle and avoid trying something that isn't working like in gundam seed when facing one of the druggies gundams and with destroy gundam.

Half of that stems from ''Stock Footage'' the rest is Situational

Destined_Fate · 2012-09-02, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

And I already discussed this in this post:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...56#post4330056

In short...

In Kira's mind: "You didn't win, I lost."

That's just the logic of a sore loser. "You may have beat me and totaled my Gundam but make no mistake, you didn't win! I lost is all!"

I Fail at Life · 2012-09-02, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

That's just the logic of a sore loser. "You may have beat me and totaled my Gundam but make no mistake, you didn't win! I lost is all!"

Destined Fate: Just quit man,we all know your shinn's

White Knight in Shining Armor,there's no reasoning with you. I look at like this if,Shinn did not beat kira in that fight,you would have no argument,you would have nothing to come at people with,no reason to argue with them. What would you be doing now? Any ideas

Aquaman OS · 2012-09-02, 16:58

Kira's not totally making that up really. For the first half of the fight he's basically just running from Shinn and trying to shake him off so he could run away. It's not until Zaft starts attacking AA in earnest (because Talia asked to surrender but Durandal ordered them to take no prisoners) that Kira (almost reluctantly) starts firing back.

And even then they're evenly matched until Shinn uses the Impluse's core system to cripple Freedom's wings. He's even able to use the replacement parts to recover from a serious error that would have otherwise cost him the fight.

Piloting Destiny he no longer has that advantage and is back to being even with him.

kaito-kid · 2012-09-02, 17:06

Shinn made several errors throughout that fight.. By the end Kira destroyed 2 complete Impulse.
But it's still Kira's fault for not taking Shinn seriously.

Rising Dragon · 2012-09-02, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

Removing the DRAGOONs may increase Strike Freedom's speed, but it also may reduce the efficiency of the HiMAT Mode, and thus, it may decrease maneuverability in the atmosphere.

... I'm not seeing how. Those things are only going to increase drag with the way the machine flies in atmosphere.

Tak · 2012-09-02, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

Shinn made several errors throughout that fight.. By the end Kira destroyed 2 complete Impulse.
But it's still Kira's fault for not taking Shinn seriously.

I remember Ahtrun and Kira later had a conversation about this.

Athrun pretty much asked

How the hell did you lose to Shinn??

Kira's reply more or less described the situation then:

Because I could not focus.

I don't know if Kira underestimated Shinn. I don't think so, but I think his mind was on a large number of events happening around him that he simply couldn't concentrate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

... I'm not seeing how. Those things are only going to increase drag with the way the machine flies in atmosphere.

I'd agree with you, but I am reminded immediately just how none of the mobile suits ever follow the laws of psychics

If we had to apply the laws of psychics on these suits, many of them would be sitting ducks... let alone fly...

- Tak

Rising Dragon · 2012-09-02, 17:28

Regardless, there's more pros to cons for ditching the Super DRAGOONs when in atmospheric content. Those wings also hide thrusters in the Voiture Lumiere, same as the Destiny's Wings of Light--and I believe it's been mentioned that the Strike Freedom's was modified from the original. Removing the weapons would decrease the weight, free up those thrusters for use, and it'd also give the wings--and the suit as a whole--a thinner profile, resulting in less places for enemies to hit. Ignoring the fact that SEED Destiny made sure no one could hit the Strike Freedom anyway.

Kuroi Hadou · 2012-09-02, 17:31

This, of course, doesn't even mention the only thrusters the SF has without the Voiture Lumiere is that block on its back:

So yeah, there's definitely advantages to exposing the VLs...

quagmire · 2012-09-02, 18:14

VL is useless since there are no solar winds while in Earth's atmosphere to take advantage of.... Plus, the Dragoons thrusters aid SF while docked....

And SF also has thrusters in the legs and most likely feet( as most Gundams seem to have).

Rising Dragon · 2012-09-02, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by quagmire

VL is useless since there are no solar winds while in Earth's atmosphere to take advantage of....

You're ignoring the part where I mentioned there's still thrusters installed in the wings along with the Voiture Lumiere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quagmire

Plus, the Dragoons thrusters aid SF while docked....

This I'll need a scene for to confirm this detail, since I'm not past the 10th DVD, as my copy is corrupted, so I haven't seen all the battles the Strike Freedom has taken part in. If you or someone else could provide me a link I'd be grateful.

Kuroi Hadou · 2012-09-02, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by quagmire

VL is useless since there are no solar winds while in Earth's atmosphere to take advantage of.... Plus, the Dragoons thrusters aid SF while docked....

Then enlighten me on how the Destiny's wings could work in an atmosphere, because it's also a VL system.

Quote:

And SF also has thrusters in the legs and most likely feet( as most Gundams seem to have).

Show me a picture, and don't rely on "most likely"s to make an argument. We could argue anything on "most likely"s...

2012-09-01, 19:30	Link #4281
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	"Fact" for Destiny is unreliably flexible anyway--it gets way, way too many retcons. We still don't have proper confirmation on the origins of the Strike Freedom (stolen ZAFT prototype meant for mass production, or built from the ground up for Kira's personal use?), or on the actual reactor the Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice uses or the presence on N-Jammer Cancelers in the machine. __________________

2012-09-02, 00:51	Link #4285
BladeEntity Anything's Possible Author Join Date: Jul 2009	I thought they showed Kira surviving reallg well, the ASS missed the cockpit and Kira turns his nuclear reactor off in time, and Cagali fishes him out of the water... and he lives __________________ Nothing is Impossible

2012-09-02, 12:25	Link #4288
tetsuo69 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: nyc	a bit offtopic but i think had kira been train as a military soldier he would be unmatched. if im not mistaken Durandal points this out when giving destiny to shinn and i gotta agreed cause had kira been train, he wouldn't have his no kill policy or he wouldn't hold back. and he would also think of strategies in mid battle and avoid trying something that isn't working like in gundam seed when facing one of the druggies gundams and with destroy gundam. __________________

2012-09-02, 17:06	Link #4293
kaito-kid As I make you stop, think Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Europe - The Netherlands Age: 34	Shinn made several errors throughout that fight.. By the end Kira destroyed 2 complete Impulse. But it's still Kira's fault for not taking Shinn seriously. __________________

2012-09-02, 17:28	Link #4296
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Regardless, there's more pros to cons for ditching the Super DRAGOONs when in atmospheric content. Those wings also hide thrusters in the Voiture Lumiere, same as the Destiny's Wings of Light--and I believe it's been mentioned that the Strike Freedom's was modified from the original. Removing the weapons would decrease the weight, free up those thrusters for use, and it'd also give the wings--and the suit as a whole--a thinner profile, resulting in less places for enemies to hit. Ignoring the fact that SEED Destiny made sure no one could hit the Strike Freedom anyway. __________________

2012-09-02, 16:58	Link #4292
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Kira's not totally making that up really. For the first half of the fight he's basically just running from Shinn and trying to shake him off so he could run away. It's not until Zaft starts attacking AA in earnest (because Talia asked to surrender but Durandal ordered them to take no prisoners) that Kira (almost reluctantly) starts firing back. And even then they're evenly matched until Shinn uses the Impluse's core system to cripple Freedom's wings. He's even able to use the replacement parts to recover from a serious error that would have otherwise cost him the fight. Piloting Destiny he no longer has that advantage and is back to being even with him.

2012-09-02, 17:31	Link #4297
Kuroi Hadou Dark Energy Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: United States	This, of course, doesn't even mention the only thrusters the SF has without the Voiture Lumiere is that block on its back: So yeah, there's *definitely* advantages to exposing the VLs... __________________

2012-09-02, 18:14	Link #4298
quagmire Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010	VL is useless since there are no solar winds while in Earth's atmosphere to take advantage of.... Plus, the Dragoons thrusters aid SF while docked.... And SF also has thrusters in the legs and most likely feet( as most Gundams seem to have).